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kearney(at)shaw.ca Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Hi
As an RV10 wannabe, I am close to ordering the empennage kit. In anticipation of this I have been organizing a garage work space and reading about the required tools. To that I have a few questions for the list experts. They are:
· I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage floor. Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay of a 3 car garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad down (versus painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working. Any comments or recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
· With a quick build kit does the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool still represent a worthwhile advantage over the “standard” c-frame dimplier?
· Is the Cleaveland Tools “Main Squeeze” as good as they claim (versus other hand squeezers)?
· I have read a number of positive posts about pneumatic squeezers. Again with a QB kit, is this a worthwhile investment? Is the use of pneumatic squeezers difficult to master?
· Are their any decisions that I need to make (i.e. lighting systems etc) when completing the empennage kit?
Cheers
Les
RV wannabe
[quote][b]
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Rick S.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 347 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Hi Les,
I'm in a two car garage, built all thru the wings on just one side, the fuse needed both halves. See the rest below.
Rick S.
40185
[quote] ---
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_________________ Rick S.
RV-10
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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I don't know if it's worth painting the floor just to do the kit unless
your floor is horrible and hard to find parts on. I used 2'x2' squares
of interlocking foam (I think designed for kids play areas) for the
floor of my garage, just in 2 strips along the workbench. Warmer in
the winter and less hard on the feet. Other than that, just
cement.
If I were starting over, I'd buy the DRDT-2. I think it would be
nice. I've never used one though, but it sure makes sense.
Don't know about the "main squeeze"...never used one.
Absolutely buy a pneumatic squeezer. It's the best tool investment
you'll make. They're simple.
No major decisions during empennage work. Pretty much everything
major can wait.
Have fun!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Les Kearney wrote:
Quote: | Hi
As an RV10 wannabe, I am close to ordering the empennage kit. In
anticipation of this I have been organizing a garage work space and
reading about the required tools. To that I have a few questions for the
list experts. They are:
· I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage floor.
Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay of a 3 car
garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad down (versus
painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working. Any comments or
recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
· With a quick build kit does the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool
still represent a worthwhile advantage over the “standard” c-frame dimplier?
· Is the Cleaveland Tools “Main Squeeze” as good as they claim
(versus other hand squeezers)?
· I have read a number of positive posts about pneumatic
squeezers. Again with a QB kit, is this a worthwhile investment? Is the
use of pneumatic squeezers difficult to master?
· Are their any decisions that I need to make (i.e. lighting
systems etc) when completing the empennage kit?
Cheers
Les
RV wannabe
*
*
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fehdxl(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Les,
To sort of put my comments in context, I only have my HS, VS, and rudder on the -10 done thus far...so on to your questions.
(a) I did the epoxy on all 3-bays of my garage -- love it. I think only doing one bay would be okay. Helps with reflecting light, keeping down dust, making sweeping up aluminum chips easy, and I can actually find dropped opjects ( i.e. rivets). Doesn't help with the hardess on the feet though--I have a small carpet on one side of my workbench that helps out some.
(b) I have the DDRT-2, and a c-frame which I got with the used tool package I bought from a guy. I haven't even touched the c-frame -- love the -2. I'm planning SB, but I still think it would be worth the investment just for the tail. In fact, a buddy who is building a -8 came over the other week (only 4 miles away) to use the -2 instead of his c-frame -- that ought to say something.
(c,d) Don't know about the hand sqeezer. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used mine since I have the pneumatic set from ClearAir Tools. If you have a pneumatic, any brand of hand sqeezer will do just fine becuase you won't use it very often. The pneumatic with an ajustable set is about the easist part of the whole process--extrememly controlled with absolutely consistent results. Not difficult to master what-so-ever.
(e) Don't know for sure -- I didn't make any decisions (hopefully I didn't need to).
Hope this helps!
Oh yeah, I put off starting the -10 for a couple years -- finally realized I'll never finish all the projects around the house that we want to get done before starting the -10. Instead, I made the agreement with my wife that I would take breaks from the airplane to still do house projects. For example, I just finished painting the entire exterior of the house (took almost a week of vacation), but now that it's done, I'm ready to work on the elevators again. Order the kit, you won't regret it.
-Jim
hmmm, to archive or not to archive, that is the questions? Let's go with, do not archive
On 9/20/06, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Quote: |
Hi
As an RV10 wannabe, I am close to ordering the empennage kit. In anticipation of this I have been organizing a garage work space and reading about the required tools. To that I have a few questions for the list experts. They are:
· I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage floor. Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay of a 3 car garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad down (versus painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working. Any comments or recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
· With a quick build kit does the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool still represent a worthwhile advantage over the "standard" c-frame dimplier?
· Is the Cleaveland Tools "Main Squeeze" as good as they claim (versus other hand squeezers)?
· I have read a number of positive posts about pneumatic squeezers. Again with a QB kit, is this a worthwhile investment? Is the use of pneumatic squeezers difficult to master?
· Are their any decisions that I need to make (i.e. lighting systems etc) when completing the empennage kit?
Cheers
Les
RV wannabe
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--
o=\o [quote][b]
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jdalton77(at)comcast.net Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Les,
Welcome! First of all, just do it! order that kit!
I have the "Main Squeeze" and it is light-years ahead of any of the other squeezers. It's light, and it's very easy to squeeze with. I had planned on buying a pneumatic squeezer but so far I haven't needed it (working on Tailcone) - the MS is so simple to squeeze.
I also have the DRDT-2 and a highly recommend it. It's way easier (and quieter) than the C-Frame. It's also an extremely well-made tool.
Good luck!
Jeff
[quote] ---
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jesse(at)itecusa.org Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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I think Tim’s suggestions are good. As far as the Main Squeeze, I tried it at OSH and didn’t like it. I like the fact that it is easier to squeeze, but to do so you have to “throw” the handle a lot more, so I think it would be a little harder to work with. I think the pneumatic squeezer is a good choice, and either way, the Avery squeezer has been a very useful tool, for riveting and dimpling.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Questions from a beginner
Hi
As an RV10 wannabe, I am close to ordering the empennage kit. In anticipation of this I have been organizing a garage work space and reading about the required tools. To that I have a few questions for the list experts. They are:
· I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage floor. Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay of a 3 car garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad down (versus painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working. Any comments or recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
· With a quick build kit does the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool still represent a worthwhile advantage over the “standard” c-frame dimplier?
· Is the Cleaveland Tools “Main Squeeze” as good as they claim (versus other hand squeezers)?
· I have read a number of positive posts about pneumatic squeezers. Again with a QB kit, is this a worthwhile investment? Is the use of pneumatic squeezers difficult to master?
· Are their any decisions that I need to make (i.e. lighting systems etc) when completing the empennage kit?
Cheers
Les
RV wannabe
01234567890123
-- Date: 9/19/2006
--
9/20/2006
[quote][b]
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deej(at)deej.net Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Quote: |
· I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage
floor. Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay
of a 3 car garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad
down (versus painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working.
Any comments or recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
|
Hi Les,
I bought some foam pad flooring at Sam's Club (or similar) and it
has made a world of difference in my ability to stand and work at the
bench for hours on end. It comes in approximately 2 foot square pieces
that have interlocking tabs around the edges, so you just hook them
together in whatever pattern you want on your floor. I don't have the
packaging anymore or I would send you the brand name, but you should be
able to find this at Walmart or similar, perhaps even an autoparts
store. Not very expensive, either, which is a nice bonus.
Quote: |
· Is the Cleaveland Tools “Main Squeeze” as good as they claim
(versus other hand squeezers)?
|
YES!!! I love this hand squeezer. It is very easy to use. I don't
have a pneumatic squeezer, and have been using the Main Squeeze for
everything that I can get a squeezer on, otherwise buck buck buck...
-Dj
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gipsowh(at)hotmail.com Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Les, here is one more perspective. We are nearly finished with my 10 - all
slow build kits. I built the two "EAA" workbenches, bought rubber floor
mating strips at Home Depot, purchased and used the DRDT-2 tool, the
Cleaveland hand squeezer, cheapest portable electric drills (with good
bits), and a good 3x rivet gun. The hand squeezer cam action makes
squeezing rivets very easy. The DRDT-2 makes dimpling skins go much much
faster- and quieter than the C-bracket tool. Highly recommended. I also
bought a two-stage electric Sears air compressor for the 3X rivet gun and
hydraulic ratchet wrench. These are the primary tools we've used with good
service while building the 10 starting in May '04.
Bill Gipson
40227
Quote: | From: "Jim Beyer" <fehdxl(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Questions from a beginner
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:09:08 -0400
Les,
To sort of put my comments in context, I only have my HS, VS, and rudder on
the -10 done thus far...so on to your questions.
(a) I did the epoxy on all 3-bays of my garage -- love it. I think only
doing one bay would be okay. Helps with reflecting light, keeping down
dust, making sweeping up aluminum chips easy, and I can actually find
dropped opjects (i.e. rivets). Doesn't help with the hardess on the feet
though--I have a small carpet on one side of my workbench that helps out
some.
(b) I have the DDRT-2, and a c-frame which I got with the used tool package
I bought from a guy. I haven't even touched the c-frame -- love the -2.
I'm planning SB, but I still think it would be worth the investment just
for
the tail. In fact, a buddy who is building a -8 came over the other week
(only 4 miles away) to use the -2 instead of his c-frame -- that ought to
say something.
(c,d) Don't know about the hand sqeezer. I can count on one hand the
number of times I've used mine since I have the pneumatic set from ClearAir
Tools. If you have a pneumatic, any brand of hand sqeezer will do just
fine
becuase you won't use it very often. The pneumatic with an ajustable set
is
about the easist part of the whole process--extrememly controlled with
absolutely consistent results. Not difficult to master what-so-ever.
(e) Don't know for sure -- I didn't make any decisions (hopefully I didn't
need to).
Hope this helps!
Oh yeah, I put off starting the -10 for a couple years -- finally realized
I'll never finish all the projects around the house that we want to get
done
before starting the -10. Instead, I made the agreement with my wife that I
would take breaks from the airplane to still do house projects. For
example, I just finished painting the entire exterior of the house (took
almost a week of vacation), but now that it's done, I'm ready to work on
the
elevators again. Order the kit, you won't regret it.
-Jim
hmmm, to archive or not to archive, that is the questions? Let's go with,
do not archive
On 9/20/06, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi
>
>As an RV10 wannabe, I am close to ordering the empennage kit. In
>anticipation of this I have been organizing a garage work space and
>reading
>about the required tools. To that I have a few questions for the list
>experts. They are:
>
>· I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage floor.
>Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay of a 3 car
>garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad down (versus
>painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working. Any comments or
>recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
>
>· With a quick build kit does the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool still
>represent a worthwhile advantage over the "standard" c-frame dimplier?
>
>· Is the Cleaveland Tools "Main Squeeze" as good as they claim
>(versus other hand squeezers)?
>
>· I have read a number of positive posts about pneumatic
>squeezers. Again with a QB kit, is this a worthwhile investment? Is the
>use
>of pneumatic squeezers difficult to master?
>
>· Are their any decisions that I need to make (i.e. lighting
>systems etc) when completing the empennage kit?
>
>Cheers
>
>Les
>
>RV wannabe
>
>*
>
============
============
============
============
============
>*
--
o=\o
|
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best
route! http://local.live.com
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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 530 Location: GA
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Questions from a beginner |
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Les,
Definitely get the foam pad. I have some and will definitely get more. I spend a lot of time on my feet on this project. I've also used a lot of scrap carpet to keep off the hard concrete. Don't forget a chair. You can't have too much light.
John
[quote="kearney(at)shaw.ca"]Hi
As an RV10 wannabe, I am close to ordering the empennage kit. In anticipation of this I have been organizing a garage work space and reading about the required tools. To that I have a few questions for the list experts. They are:
� I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage floor. Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay of a 3 car garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad down (versus painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working. Any comments or recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
� With a quick build kit does the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool still represent a worthwhile advantage over the “standard†c-frame dimplier?
� Is the Cleaveland Tools “Main Squeeze†as good as they claim (versus other hand squeezers)?
� I have read a number of positive posts about pneumatic squeezers. Again with a QB kit, is this a worthwhile investment? Is the use of pneumatic squeezers difficult to master?
� Are their any decisions that I need to make (i.e. lighting systems etc) when completing the empennage kit?
Cheers
Les
RV wannabe
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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I'm a QB beginner too as of August 21. If you can, I would highly
recommend the week-long tail kit program at the Alexander Tech Center
offers in Griffin GA. In addition to getting my fin, rudder and 80% of
the HS built, I learned that:
1) rubber padding is preferable over a hard, raw concrete floor in
those high use areas
2) the DRDT-2 is more than worth the premium. (I've had a chance to use
both devices - both get it done but there is no comparison)
3) the 'main squeeze' takes less force than the common alternatives and
appears to be a very fine tool. But having used 3 different hand
squeezers, I actually preferred one of the alternatives while others
preferred the main squeeze. The lesson; there's great value in getting
a chance to try a variety of tools, which was an unexpected benefit of
the Tech Center experience.
4) The pneumatic squeezer is more than worth the premium. Consider it
mandatory. I guess you don't really need a hand squeezer after all as
others have said.
The Alexander Tech Center class seems to be an excellent way to start a
'10 for first timers. You get a lot done (actually too much for this
still hurting and injured builder) and 1:1 instruction from an
experienced staff including a remarkable 20yo young man.
Bill in Durham
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 1149 Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Harbor Freight has a Sidewalk Sale coming the first weekend of October.
At the last one they had packages (I believe eight sheets) of the 2' x
2' interlocking 1/2 foam garage floor pads in each kit. FWIW
John Cox
Do not Archive
--
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LarryRosen
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 415 Location: Medford, NJ
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Below are my 2 cents, much of which has already been stated.
I agree with Bill, Alexander Tech Center does offer a great way to get started and the opportunity to try out all the different brands of aircraft tools. You can see some of my photos from my build here <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Emp/Alexander/index.html>
Also a write up from Mike Crow, one of the instructors at Alexander here <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/tools/Tools/index.html> at the bottom of the page.
Les Kearney wrote: Quote: |
Hi
As an RV10 wannabe, I am close to ordering the empennage kit. In anticipation of this I have been organizing a garage work space and reading about the required tools. To that I have a few questions for the list experts. They are:
· I have been thinking of using epoxy paint on my garage floor. Application is going to be problematic as I can only do 1 bay of a 3 car garage. I am wondering if I should be putting a foam pad down (versus painting) as it will be easier on the feet when working. Any comments or recommendations as to workspace floor treatment?
| I wish I had finished my garage floor. The concrete never seems to stop dusting.
Quote: |
· With a quick build kit does the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool still represent a worthwhile advantage over the “standard” c-frame dimplier?
| -I used the DRDT-2 at Alexander for the tail and tail cone it was the 2nd best tool (Pneumatic squeezer is number 1), But after the tail kit and going quickbuild there is not much need for a c-frame dimplier, so I purchased a "standard" c-frame. I only need the c-frame for the wing skins. If it comes down to money invest in a pneumatic squeezer first and then the DRDT-2
Quote: |
· Is the Cleaveland Tools “Main Squeeze” as good as they claim (versus other hand squeezers)?
| I agree with Jesse's comment " I like the fact that it is easier to squeeze, but to do so you have to “throw” the handle a lot more, so I think it would be a little harder to work with. I think the pneumatic squeezer is a good choice, and either way, the Avery squeezer has been a very useful tool, for riveting and dimpling." Since I invested in a pneumatic squeezer and I still wanted a standard squeezer, I saved some money and got the Avery.
Quote: |
· I have read a number of positive posts about pneumatic squeezers. Again with a QB kit, is this a worthwhile investment? Is the use of pneumatic squeezers difficult to master?
| Get one, well worth the investment. At the end of the project you can easily sell it and recoup most of the investment. You can look for one on ebay to save some money.
Quote: |
· Are their any decisions that I need to make (i.e. lighting systems etc) when completing the empennage kit?
| Tail light and strobe
Static ports
cable fairings
to alodine, prime, alodine & prime or do nothing (no primer wars please)
Quote: |
Cheers
Les
RV wannabe
| Buy the kit and get started!
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
[quote][b]
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_________________ Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
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kearney(at)shaw.ca Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Hi
Many thanks to all who contributed their insights. Based on the info, I am going to pass on the epoxy floor finish and use padding instead.
Provisionally, I plan to use the DRDT-2 instead of the standard C Frame as well as a pneumatic squeezer. I say provisionally as I plan to be in Oregon for a Van's test flight in a week or so and then plan do to a builder workshop in the Portland area. Hopefully I will be able to try out both these tools. Asumming all goes well with the test flight and with the workshop, I will become the proud owner of a tail kit before I head back to Alberta.
For the record, I would like to say thanks to the efforts of people like Tim Olson and others who have made available a tremendous amount of building info on the 'net. I don't think I would even consider this project without the online support network that is available.
Cheers
Les
RV10 Wannabe
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LarryRosen
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 415 Location: Medford, NJ
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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Enjoy the workshop.
Be careful, the Van's flight test will be an expensive adventure. It
will just be a short time after the flight that you put down your
deposit on the emp kit.
Les Kearney wrote:
[quote]
Hi
Many thanks to all who contributed their insights. Based on the info,
I am going to pass on the epoxy floor finish and use padding instead.
Provisionally, I plan to use the DRDT-2 instead of the standard C
Frame as well as a pneumatic squeezer. I say provisionally as I plan
to be in Oregon for a Van's test flight in a week or so and then plan
do to a builder workshop in the Portland area. Hopefully I will be
able to try out both these tools. Asumming all goes well with the test
flight and with the workshop, I will become the proud owner of a tail
kit before I head back to Alberta.
For the record, I would like to say thanks to the efforts of people
like Tim Olson and others who have made available a tremendous amount
of building info on the 'net. I don't think I would even consider this
project without the online support network that is available.
Cheers
Les
RV10 Wannabe
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_________________ Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: Questions from a beginner |
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I paid for the emp kit about 30 minutes after the test flight. Most
expensive "FREE" test flight yet for me.
-Ben
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