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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: gap seal |
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At 07:46 PM 9/25/2007, boyd wrote:
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I have never seen an ultrastar.... but unless it folds differently than
the mkIIIc it should be possible.
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The US does fold differently... the pivot is on the front fitting; the
upper surface faces inwards (and trailing edge down) when folded.
Actually I'm quite pleased with the clear vinyl and velcro gap seal I
made. I like being able to look up and back through it, and as the vinyl
is stiffer than fabric, it doesn't flutter at all.
-Dana
--
--
"I'm a lawyer." "Honest?" "No, the usual kind."
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Gap Seal |
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This thread was a lot of great information on gap seals, I would have expected some decrease in performance, but was surprised how bad it was. Has anyone ever flown a MK III Xtra without the gap seal ??? Given what I have read, I would fly without the gap seal, but it would be nice to know. I would think that the 912-S would have enough power fly fine without it, but it wont be me testing that theory 
Mike
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_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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R. Hankins
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Gap Seal |
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Here is my gap seal eaxperience:
I began with 1/8 clear vinyl attached with 2" self-adhesive velcro. I do not know if this velcro had vinyl compatible adhesive. It worked well for 19hrs. I parked the plane in the summer sun for a little too long, and the velcro on the gap seal itself oozed out of position from the heat.
I ordered an actual cloth seal from TNK after that. It lasted for two years and 100hrs of flying. This was the lightweight nylon.
At 119 hrs, I removed the velcro from the wings and replaced it with non-self-adhesive velcro glued on with poly-tac. I made sure the velcro on the wings extends nearly a foot past the ends of the seal top and bottom.
I ordered another gap seal from TNK to replace the first and was pleasantly surprised to find it made of different material. The current cloth seal is made from heavy duty sail material (the sailboat variety) and is tough as nails. I have had several homebuilders ask about sources for this cloth because of its quality.
I now have over 300 hrs on this last gap seal with no maintenance needed. I fold every time I fly. I believe the key to long lasting velcro is using poly-tack to glue it to the wings and making sure the ends extend well past the gap-seal. I would extend it past the seal at least a foot on the bottom of the wing and just run the velcro all the way to the trailing edge on the top of the wing.
Hope this helps...
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Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C |
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herbgh
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: Gap Seal |
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Roger
When you say "run all the way to the trailing edge on the top" ; I
think you have hit on the solution.. I will give it a try...
I tried using poly tac cement as a repair and did not have much
luck...Likely the reason is in the first sentence..My wing root attached
velcro stopped a foot and a half short of the trailing edge..Herb
On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:18:57 -0700 "R. Hankins" <rphanks(at)grantspass.com>
writes:
| Quote: |
<rphanks(at)grantspass.com>
Here is my gap seal eaxperience:
I began with 1/8 clear vinyl attached with 2" self-adhesive velcro.
I do not know if this velcro had vinyl compatible adhesive. It
worked well for 19hrs. I parked the plane in the summer sun for a
little too long, and the velcro on the gap seal itself oozed out of
position from the heat.
I ordered an actual cloth seal from TNK after that. It lasted for
two years and 100hrs of flying. This was the lightweight nylon.
At 119 hrs, I removed the velcro from the wings and replaced it with
non-self-adhesive velcro glued on with poly-tac. I made sure the
velcro on the wings extends nearly a foot past the ends of the seal
top and bottom.
I ordered another gap seal from TNK to replace the first and was
pleasantly surprised to find it made of different material. The
current cloth seal is made from heavy duty sail material (the
sailboat variety) and is tough as nails. I have had several
homebuilders ask about sources for this cloth because of its
quality.
I now have over 300 hrs on this last gap seal with no maintenance
needed. I fold every time I fly. I believe the key to long lasting
velcro is using poly-tack to glue it to the wings and making sure
the ends extend well past the gap-seal. I would extend it past the
seal at least a foot on the bottom of the wing and just run the
velcro all the way to the trailing edge on the top of the wing.
Hope this helps...
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136792#136792
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Gap Seal |
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Or you can sew it on. If your velcro is over a rib or structural member,
glue it on and then sew it also, wrapping your "thread" around the
structural member and the velcro or going through the velcro. The last time
I sewed velcro on, I used safety wire. Stainless steel wire resists U/V real
well... <grin>
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: Gap Seal |
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Mike, it's not about horsepower, it's about bad aerodynamics. This is particularly true Go to the NACA archives and do some research on the subject (not the easiest thing to do, I admit, but it can be done). This is very old news and here we are in the 21st century discussing what was already researched by the second decade of the 20th.
Ask yourself, and do a little research on the subject, how many aircraft are manufactured today, and in the last 50 years for that matter, without gap seals? Disregard ultralights which were by and large built 5% by innovators like Homer and 95% by rip off artists, IMHO.
Rick
On 9/27/07, JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)>
This thread was a lot of great information on gap seals, I would have expected some decrease in performance, but was surprised how bad it was. Has anyone ever flown a MK III Xtra without the gap seal ??? Given what I have read, I would fly without the gap seal, but it would be nice to know. I would think that the 912-S would have enough power fly fine without it, but it wont be me testing that theory
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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olendorf
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Gap Seal |
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I few comment regarding the gap seals.
1. I think everyone is mostly right. Some think it flies fine without a gap seal and some think it hardly flies. In my experience it barely flies and I will never do it again. However I think the issue may be due to the fact that everyone has a different windshield arrangement. With the shorty windshield the air comes up right through the bottom of the wing. With a full windshield the air tends to go over the wing more. Maybe this is why we see the differing opinions.
2. The self stick velcro barely sticks. I used Pliobond which is contact cement for polytone. It didn't work as well as I would have liked so I used regular contact cement and that works great.
3. I would devise some method of mechanically attaching the ends of the velcro on the gap seal to the wing. I put small aluminum tubes on my wing rib sticking out about 3/4". Then I put the gap seal over the tubes. On top of that I put a washer and a safety pin. I used the same method when I changed over to the lexan gap seal I have now.
p.s. I really like this new spell checker Matt added to the forum.
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_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
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jhankin(at)planters.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Gap Seal |
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I have a Firefly with a cloth gap seal.
One option I have not read about is that mine has a zipper sewed down the
middle of the seal.
The cloth is held on the edges with Velcro. I have 330 hours on it now with
little wear.
I do not fold the wings and the planer is in a hanger.
Anyone wanting a picture contact me off list.
Jimmy Hankinson
912-863-7384
Firefly #035, (N6007L)
JYL (Sylvania, Ga.)
Pegasus Field (Home)
2000 Feet X 100 Feet- Grass
Rocky Ford, Georgia
Do Not Archive
Pegasus Field (Home)
2000 Feet X 100 Feet- Grass
Rocky Ford, Georgia
Do Not Archive
--
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SeanCarron
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Gap Seal |
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Roofing the mid-section of a building demands meticulous attention to detail and choice of appropriate roof materials. Whether it's a residential home or a commercial structure, selecting the right materials is paramount for durability, energy efficiency, and aesthetic appeal. From traditional options like asphalt shingles and metal roofing to eco-friendly alternatives such as solar panels and green roofs, the decision hinges on factors like climate, budget, and architectural style. Regardless of the choice, the mid-section of any building requires a sturdy and reliable roofing system to protect it from the elements and ensure long-term structural integrity.
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