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Sealed lead Acid battery

 
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:57 am    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a SLA battery like this?
Ill fess up.  I always used these sort of batteries - for the last 15 years to no ill effect but that doesn't not mean that this is a recommended practice.  They normally last about 5 years.
thanks
will
PS I am not electrically dependant and have two back up batteries for the avionics
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William Daniell

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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:18 am    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:03 AM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a SLA battery like this?
Ill fess up.  I always used these sort of batteries - for the last 15 years to no ill effect but that doesn't not mean that this is a recommended practice.  They normally last about 5 years.
thanks
will
PS I am not electrically dependant and have two back up batteries for the avionics

William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246
Hi William,
I'll see your 15 & raise you at least 5. If we shouldn't be using them, please don't tell. Smile
I've been using similar products, with much less well known brand names, with no issues outside what could happen to any product. (ex: shipping damage)
I used the 18 AH size for years on O320 engines, until I discovered 20 AH & 22 AH versions that are almost the same size. If you have a bigger engine, and your battery mount isn't a 'glove fit' arrangement, you can go to the larger batteries for a bit more money but still about 1/2 what an Odyssey costs. And there have been more and more reports over the last couple of years about very short lived Odysseys; unlike the 'no name' stuff I've been using.
Also related to the 'big engine' starting current issue: Some (unfortunately, not all) of these batteries will spec their source (or internal) impedance. The one you image, like the ones I've used in the past, has relatively low mass terminals on top. While similar batteries have plenty of 'grunt' to start all but the really big, high compression engines, they are typically designed for use in mobility carts, UPSs, etc that have lower max current than a starter motor. Their internal impedance is typically a bit higher than a purpose-built SLA starting battery with the same AH rating on the label. Most obvious clue, absent detailed specs, will be the somewhat heavier terminals on the starting battery.
Charlie


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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:31 am    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

William

I have to disagree with your PS.
You are indeed electrically dependant, otherwise your heart wouldn’t work, and you will have to use a pacemaker...
Sorry, couldn’t resist
Regards
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone

Quote:
No dia 14/09/2020, às 14:28, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> escreveu:



On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:03 AM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a SLA battery like this?
Ill fess up. I always used these sort of batteries - for the last 15 years to no ill effect but that doesn't not mean that this is a recommended practice. They normally last about 5 years.
thanks
will
PS I am not electrically dependant and have two back up batteries for the avionics

William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246





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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:38 am    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

nice one!  but I do have an independent power source
William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:39 AM Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

Quote:
William

 I have to disagree with your PS.
You are indeed electrically dependant, otherwise your heart wouldn’t work, and you will have to use a pacemaker....
Sorry, couldn’t resist 
Regards 
Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone

Quote:
No dia 14/09/2020, às 14:28, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:



On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:03 AM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a SLA battery like this?
Ill fess up.  I always used these sort of batteries - for the last 15 years to no ill effect but that doesn't not mean that this is a recommended practice.  They normally last about 5 years.
thanks
will
PS I am not electrically dependant and have two back up batteries for the avionics

William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246







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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

Charlie thanks,
I too have been using cheap chinese SLA batteries which is the only small ish battery I could obtain in Colombia.  It is also the normally used rotax battery there except where the battery is in the engine compartment because the belief is that SLA dont handle heat well.   Starts my 912 turbo fine.  But the stupidest question is the one you don't ask.  And since I'm now in the US I have a few more alternatives...
Will
William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 9:25 AM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:


On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:03 AM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a SLA battery like this?
Ill fess up.  I always used these sort of batteries - for the last 15 years to no ill effect but that doesn't not mean that this is a recommended practice.  They normally last about 5 years.
thanks
will
PS I am not electrically dependant and have two back up batteries for the avionics

William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246
Hi William,
I'll see your 15 & raise you at least 5. If we shouldn't be using them, please don't tell. Smile
I've been using similar products, with much less well known brand names, with no issues outside what could happen to any product. (ex: shipping damage)
I used the 18 AH size for years on O320 engines, until I discovered 20 AH & 22 AH versions that are almost the same size. If you have a bigger engine, and your battery mount isn't a 'glove fit' arrangement, you can go to the larger batteries for a bit more money but still about 1/2 what an Odyssey costs. And there have been more and more reports over the last couple of years about very short lived Odysseys; unlike the 'no name' stuff I've been using.
Also related to the 'big engine' starting current issue: Some (unfortunately, not all) of these batteries will spec their source (or internal) impedance. The one you image, like the ones I've used in the past, has relatively low mass terminals on top. While similar batteries have plenty of 'grunt' to start all but the really big, high compression engines, they are typically designed for use in mobility carts, UPSs, etc that have lower max current than a starter motor. Their internal impedance is typically a bit higher than a purpose-built SLA starting battery with the same AH rating on the label. Most obvious clue, absent detailed specs, will be the somewhat heavier terminals on the starting battery.
Charlie




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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:22 am    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

Oh... Please don't tell the batteries about that. They lived on the hot side of the firewall of my RV4 for about 15 years.

On 9/14/2020 1:51 PM, William Daniell wrote:

Quote:
Charlie thanks,
I too have been using cheap chinese SLA batteries which is the only small ish battery I could obtain in Colombia.  It is also the normally used rotax battery there except where the battery is in the engine compartment because the belief is that SLA dont handle heat well.   Starts my 912 turbo fine.  But the stupidest question is the one you don't ask.  And since I'm now in the US I have a few more alternatives...
Will
William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246








On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 9:25 AM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:




On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:03 AM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a SLA battery like this?
Ill fess up.  I always used these sort of batteries - for the last 15 years to no ill effect but that doesn't not mean that this is a recommended practice.  They normally last about 5 years.
thanks
will
PS I am not electrically dependant and have two back up batteries for the avionics



William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246






Hi William,


I'll see your 15 & raise you at least 5. If we shouldn't be using them, please don't tell. Smile


I've been using similar products, with much less well known brand names, with no issues outside what could happen to any product. (ex: shipping damage)
I used the 18 AH size for years on O320 engines, until I discovered 20 AH & 22 AH versions that are almost the same size. If you have a bigger engine, and your battery mount isn't a 'glove fit' arrangement, you can go to the larger batteries for a bit more money but still about 1/2 what an Odyssey costs. And there have been more and more reports over the last couple of years about very short lived Odysseys; unlike the 'no name' stuff I've been using.


Also related to the 'big engine' starting current issue: Some (unfortunately, not all) of these batteries will spec their source (or internal) impedance. The one you image, like the ones I've used in the past, has relatively low mass terminals on top. While similar batteries have plenty of 'grunt' to start all but the really big, high compression engines, they are typically designed for use in mobility carts, UPSs, etc that have lower max current than a starter motor. Their internal impedance is typically a bit higher than a purpose-built SLA starting battery with the same AH rating on the label. Most obvious clue, absent detailed specs, will be the somewhat heavier terminals on the starting battery.


Charlie






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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:32 pm    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

Dang...i was misinformed.

William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 15:27 Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Oh... Please don't tell the batteries about that. They lived on the hot side of the firewall of my RV4 for about 15 years.

On 9/14/2020 1:51 PM, William Daniell wrote:

Quote:
Charlie thanks,
I too have been using cheap chinese SLA batteries which is the only small ish battery I could obtain in Colombia.  It is also the normally used rotax battery there except where the battery is in the engine compartment because the belief is that SLA dont handle heat well.   Starts my 912 turbo fine.  But the stupidest question is the one you don't ask.  And since I'm now in the US I have a few more alternatives...
Will
William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246








On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 9:25 AM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:




On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:03 AM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a SLA battery like this?
Ill fess up.  I always used these sort of batteries - for the last 15 years to no ill effect but that doesn't not mean that this is a recommended practice.  They normally last about 5 years.
thanks
will
PS I am not electrically dependant and have two back up batteries for the avionics



William Daniell

LONGPORT

+1 786 878 0246






Hi William,


I'll see your 15 & raise you at least 5. If we shouldn't be using them, please don't tell. Smile


I've been using similar products, with much less well known brand names, with no issues outside what could happen to any product. (ex: shipping damage)
I used the 18 AH size for years on O320 engines, until I discovered 20 AH & 22 AH versions that are almost the same size. If you have a bigger engine, and your battery mount isn't a 'glove fit' arrangement, you can go to the larger batteries for a bit more money but still about 1/2 what an Odyssey costs. And there have been more and more reports over the last couple of years about very short lived Odysseys; unlike the 'no name' stuff I've been using.


Also related to the 'big engine' starting current issue: Some (unfortunately, not all) of these batteries will spec their source (or internal) impedance. The one you image, like the ones I've used in the past, has relatively low mass terminals on top. While similar batteries have plenty of 'grunt' to start all but the really big, high compression engines, they are typically designed for use in mobility carts, UPSs, etc that have lower max current than a starter motor. Their internal impedance is typically a bit higher than a purpose-built SLA starting battery with the same AH rating on the label. Most obvious clue, absent detailed specs, will be the somewhat heavier terminals on the starting battery.


Charlie







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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:46 am    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

At 01:51 PM 9/14/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Charlie thanks,
I too have been using cheap chinese SLA batteries which is the only small ish battery I could obtain in Colombia. It is also the normally used rotax battery there except where the battery is in the engine compartment because the belief is that SLA dont handle heat well. Starts my 912 turbo fine. But the stupidest question is the one you don't ask. And since I'm now in the US I have a few more alternatives...


Rule #1, it's dumb to argue with success.

Rule #2, when initiating a new experiment, you
need data based on observation.

When selecting a battery for an electrically dependent
airplane, one needs a battery-only, endurance
goal. Then be ready/willing to test the battery
against that requirement. Swap it out for a new one when it
fails the endurance test even if it still starts the engine,

We've had many discussions here on the List over
the years about suitability to task for a host
of batteries. Some folks swear by the premium
name brands, others have cited years of satisfactory
service from generic products.

But WITHOUT NUMBERS demonstrating compliance with
numerically defined design goals, those
conversations were little more than musings
over beer and pretzels.

For the most part, any and all SVLA products
are fair game for use in your airplane. The
deciding factor is $ownership$. How much
$testing$ and $procurement$ expenses are
incurred to keep your design goals covered?

Years ago, some of my readers bought the cheapest,
18AH SLVA they could find (about $40 at the time) and
simply replaced it every year. If they flew 50
hours a year, then operating expense was under a
$1/hr and testing expense was zero.

A really expensive battery may prove to the
the lowest cost per flight hour when
demonstrated performance negates a lot of
maintenance testing.

If you have no battery-only endurance requirements,
then you can run any battery like they do in most
GA light aircraft . . . run 'em until they don't
crank the engine any more. But keep in mind that
most of those dark-n-stormy-night stories involving
soggy batteries were penned by pilots who didn't
recognize that they had battery-only endurance
goals until it was too late to do anything about it.

So, pick a battery. Set goals. Monitor performance
over time and after you've gone through two or
three batteries, you'll KNOW if it was a good
value. We'd all appreciate it if you would share
your discoveries here on the List.




Bob . . .


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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:39 pm    Post subject: Sealed lead Acid battery Reply with quote

Roger that.
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 07:50 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 01:51 PM 9/14/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Charlie thanks,
I too have been using cheap chinese SLA batteries which is the only small ish battery I could obtain in Colombia.  It is also the normally used rotax battery there except where the battery is in the engine compartment because the belief is that SLA dont handle heat well.   Starts my 912 turbo fine.  But the stupidest question is the one you don't ask.  And since I'm now in the US I have a few more alternatives...


  Rule #1, it's dumb to argue with success.

  Rule #2, when initiating a new experiment, you
  need data based on observation.

  When selecting a battery for an electrically dependent
  airplane, one needs a battery-only, endurance
  goal. Then be ready/willing to test the battery
  against that requirement. Swap it out for a new one when it
  fails the endurance test even if it still starts the engine,

  We've had many discussions here on the List over
  the years about suitability to task for a host
  of batteries. Some folks swear by the premium
  name brands, others have cited years of satisfactory
  service from generic products.

  But WITHOUT NUMBERS demonstrating compliance with
  numerically defined design goals, those
  conversations were little more than musings
  over beer and pretzels.

  For the most part, any and all SVLA products
  are fair game for use in your airplane. The
  deciding factor is $ownership$.  How much
  $testing$ and $procurement$ expenses are
  incurred to keep your design goals covered?
 
  Years ago, some of my readers bought the cheapest,
  18AH SLVA they could find (about $40 at the time) and
  simply replaced it every year. If they flew 50
  hours a year, then operating expense was under a
  $1/hr and testing expense was zero.

  A really expensive battery may prove to the
  the lowest cost per flight hour when
  demonstrated performance negates a lot of
  maintenance testing.

  If you have no battery-only endurance requirements,
  then you can run any battery like they do in most
  GA light aircraft . . . run 'em until they don't
  crank the engine any more. But keep in mind that
  most of those dark-n-stormy-night stories involving
  soggy batteries were penned by pilots who didn't
  recognize that they had battery-only endurance
  goals until it was too late to do anything about it.

  So, pick a battery. Set goals. Monitor performance
  over time and after you've gone through two or
  three batteries, you'll KNOW if it was a good
  value. We'd all appreciate it if you would share
  your discoveries here on the List.




  Bob . . .


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