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Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls
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art(at)zemon.name
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:41 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

Sebatien,
I agree with everything that you wrote. My apologies if anything that I wrote was confusing. I did not mean to imply that I would not turn on the pitot heat until I was in the conditions requiring it.  I would turn it on well before entering those conditions, just as you suggested when you wrote about turning it on before takeoff.
For me, flying airplanes which are not certified for flight into known icing conditions, I am simply not willing to fly in a situation that requires pitot heat for an extended period of time. I don't like to fly an approach and landing through such conditions. The chance of ice is small but... I will only launch into such conditions if I know that I can climb out the top VERY quickly.
I misjudged the "climb out on top VERY quickly" once and scared myself. I NEVER want to do that again. You can read about it in a NASA ASRS Callback, my moment of anonymous fame. (Email me off-list if you want to know more)
    -- Art Z.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

I don't disagree with the sentiment for pitot heat. However, I will note
that many TC aircraft didn't get heated pitot until well after 1960. I
flew without pitot heat in and out of clouds quite a bit. I was
fortunate to be in geographic area with low humidity and virtually all
icing was slow to accumulate rime, which did not seem to block the old
standard 1/8" copper tube pitot. Today, the non-certified heated pitots
are certainly cheap enough that they should be employed as a defensive
measure even if one intends to avoid all flight in cloud.

On 1/14/2019 6:09 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
Quote:
Sebatien,

I agree with everything that you wrote. My apologies if anything that I
wrote was confusing. I did not mean to imply that I would not turn on
the pitot heat until I was in the conditions requiring it.  I would turn
it on well before entering those conditions, just as you suggested when
you wrote about turning it on before takeoff.

For me, flying airplanes which are not certified for flight into known
icing conditions, I am simply not willing to fly in a situation that
requires pitot heat for an extended period of time. I don't like to fly
an approach and landing through such conditions. The chance of ice is
small but... I will only launch into such conditions if I know that I
can climb out the top VERY quickly.

I misjudged the "climb out on top VERY quickly" once and scared myself.
I NEVER want to do that again. You can read about it in a NASA ASRS
Callback, my moment of anonymous fame. (Email me off-list if you want to
know more)

    -- Art Z.

--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/

/"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."/


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supik



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now.

The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post.

The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON.

Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay.

Have you found any other hotspots?

Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP?


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Kellym



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Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:49 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

OK, you may need to have an analysis for your regulators with everything
at max draw, but for wire sizing, alternator sizing, etc. it makes zero
sense. For instance, it is very unlikely, if not impossible to be
transmitting on both com units at the same time. Many of the items the
max draw is only during boot up cycle. You most certainly will not be
flying at night with your dome light on. Your nav and strobe lights will
be at minimum after start up, not at max.
I'd suggest you follow US convention for load analysis to get
appropriate alternator and wire sizing...looking at normal continuous
operating current for each item, not its transient max draw. It will put
your normal load at about 1/2 the numbers you are looking at. The rule
of thumb 80% of capacity number, for instance is based on continuous
operating load, not max potential current.
Are you really going to fly much night time IFR? I did it when I was
younger, but it would be extremely rare now that I don't "need" to get
somewhere enough to do that. Obviously your regs are stricter than the US.

On 1/14/2019 7:05 AM, supik wrote:
Quote:


I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now.

The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post.

The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON.

Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay.

Have you found any other hotspots?

Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP?

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960











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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

Igor

You didn’t send the updated load analysis.

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 14/01/2019, às 14:05, supik <bionicad(at)hotmail.com> escreveu:

Quote:


I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now.

The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post.

The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON.

Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay.

Have you found any other hotspots?

Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP?

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960











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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldn’t find your OP. Which voltages are you monitoring, and where?

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 14/01/2019, às 14:05, supik <bionicad(at)hotmail.com> escreveu:

Quote:


I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now.

The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post.

The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON.

Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay.

Have you found any other hotspots?

Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP?

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960











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supik



Joined: 22 Aug 2018
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote:
Igor

You didn’t send the updated load analysis.

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 14/01/2019, às 14:05, supik <bionicad> escreveu:

Quote:


I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now.

The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post.

The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON.

Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay.

Have you found any other hotspots?

Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP?

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960












Carlos, Load A. attached here and in my original post:


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LoadAnalysis OM ELA v.pb01.pdf
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 Filename:  LoadAnalysis OM ELA v.pb01.pdf
 Filesize:  159.32 KB
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supik



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote:
As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldn’t find your OP. Which voltages are you monitoring, and where?

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone


Snip from my original post:

Respective BUS voltages monitored by G3X Touch.
-MAIN BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.8V triggers (MASTER CAUT) MAIN BUS LV
-ESS BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.0V triggers (MASTER WARN) ESS BUS LV


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:37 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

Igor section 18 of the G3X installation manual has all the information for configuring your EIS. While the G3X does support display of 2 different voltage sources, it will combine them on one gauge. This means that your Master Caution alarm and Master Warning alarm thresholds will have to be appropriate to both voltages. I recommend you do not set any Master Warning, and set your Master Caution alarm to ~13.7 V. If either bus falls below this level, you get a warning and can plan accordingly while your battery is still fully charged.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 6:11 AM supik <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)>

I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now.

The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post.

The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON.

Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay.

Have you found any other hotspots?

Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP?

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960






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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

My G3X install manual is out of date. It's possible the 2 voltages can be split to 2 different gauges. Check section 18 of your install manual and if possible try it out on an existing installation with 2 voltage inputs. You may be able to set the warnings up as desired.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 9:35 AM Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Igor section 18 of the G3X installation manual has all the information for configuring your EIS. While the G3X does support display of 2 different voltage sources, it will combine them on one gauge. This means that your Master Caution alarm and Master Warning alarm thresholds will have to be appropriate to both voltages. I recommend you do not set any Master Warning, and set your Master Caution alarm to ~13.7 V. If either bus falls below this level, you get a warning and can plan accordingly while your battery is still fully charged.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 6:11 AM supik <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)>

I have updated the Load Analysis to reduce confusion. I have removed the MAX DRAW columns (required only for the local European Load Analysis). I hope, it's more clear now.

The updated analysis will be posted soon in my original post.

The euipment outlined in the Load Analysis is required for the night IFR flight and will be ON.

Let's focus on the el. diagram. I am going to replace the ESS-BUS relay with a continuos duty type relay.

Have you found any other hotspots?

Is there any G3X Touch expert who can tell me if it's possible to setup the warnings in the G3X Touch for the Voltage as described in my OP?

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486960#486960






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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

Also the labels available are Main Bus and Aux Bus or Bus 1 and Bus 2. You may want to go with the latter for clarity since an ESS bus is definitely not an AUX bus.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 8:09 AM supik <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)>


trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote:
> As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldn’t find your OP. Which voltages are you monitoring, and where?
>
> Carlos
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>


Snip from my original post:

Respective BUS voltages monitored by G3X Touch.
-MAIN BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.8V triggers (MASTER CAUT) MAIN BUS LV
-ESS BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.0V triggers (MASTER WARN) ESS BUS LV

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486966#486966






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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

cluros(at)gmail.com wrote:
Also the labels available are Main Bus and Aux Bus or Bus 1 and Bus 2. You may want to go with the latter for clarity since an ESS bus is definitely not an AUX bus.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 8:09 AM supik <bionicad> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" <bionicad>


trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt wrote:
> As for the G3X touch voltage warnings, I couldn’t find your OP. Which voltages are you monitoring, and where?
>
> Carlos
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>


Snip from my original post:

Respective BUS voltages monitored by G3X Touch.
-MAIN BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.8V triggers (MASTER CAUT) MAIN BUS LV
-ESS BUS threshold monitoring at or below 13.0V triggers (MASTER WARN) ESS BUS LV

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




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Thanks Carlos, I was afraid, the system will not allow labeling the ESS BUS.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is possible to label the indicators..

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

Please post the picture and your install manual.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 15:38 supik <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com) wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)>

I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is possible to label the indicators..

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

cluros(at)gmail.com wrote:
Please post the picture and your install manual.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 15:38 supik <bionicad> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" <bionicad>

I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is possible to label the indicators..

--------
Igor

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[/quote]

Carlos, the picture is uploaded in my previous post.. You can download the current manual directly from the Garmin website.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

Bob,

in case the ALT-2 is OFF and the ESS BUS contactor closed, so that the feed to the ESS BUS reverses;

Least resistance to the ESS BUS will go through the ESS BUS Contactor when fed from ALT-1 or battery (ESS BUS will be fed through the diode only if ESS BUS Contactor is open);

-will I need to have a circuit protection right after the ESS BUS Contactor facing the ESS BUS or is the circuit breaker (ESS BUS 35A) at the ESS BUS sufficient to protect the wire? I guess this wouldn't comply with standards..

thanks,

Igor


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Last edited by supik on Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Basic Elec. Diagram -critique pls Reply with quote

Since they can be displayed as separate gauges, you will be able to set up your alarms as you wanted in your OP.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 16:04 supik <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com) wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik" <bionicad(at)hotmail.com (bionicad(at)hotmail.com)>


cluros(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Please post the picture and your install manual.
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 15:38 supik  AeroElectric-List message posted by: "supik"

>  I have just received a picture from G3X Expert. Apparently it is possible to label the indicators..

>  --------
>  Igor

>  RV10 in progress




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486975#486975)




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Carlos, the picture is uploaded in my previous post.. You can download the current manual directly from the Garmin website.

--------
Igor

RV10 in progress




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