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Question: can these wires be put in one wire bundle?

 
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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 am    Post subject: Question: can these wires be put in one wire bundle? Reply with quote

Oh, Marcel:
Some other tricks I do:
1 - I use Black and Red wire for primary B+ voltages.
2 - I twist the B+ wires - about 4 to 6 twists per inch.  This helps in keeping noise out of the system.
3 - Use shielded cables for Audio lines.
4 - Audio lines are Grounded ONLY at the source - Example: At the radio and at the intercom.
5 - If you have two set of similar wires - Example: A RS232 from one Nav/Comm and another Nav/Comm keep them apart and/or use shielded wires.  
Side note:  I have installed 4 sets of Garmin G5's.  NOISE is a huge issue with them.  I use Toroids on the B+ hot wires, wrap them well, the more wraps the better and ONLY on the B+ Positive wire. 
Good NOISELESS Luck,
Barry 


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Question: can these wires be put in one wire bundle? Reply with quote

Bob:

On Sun, Oct 7, 2018 at 1:56 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 08:44 AM 10/7/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Oh, Marcel:

Some other tricks I do:
1 - I use Black and Red wire for primary B+ voltages.
2 - I twist the B+ wires - about 4 to 6 twists per inch.  This helps in keeping noise out of the system.

  Noise from where to where?

Barry - When I know where the noise is coming from I attack the noise.  In the meantime I do what I can to prevent the noise from attacking  the system.
Quote:
Quote:
3 - Use shielded cables for Audio lines.
4 - Audio lines are Grounded ONLY at the source - Example: At the radio and at the intercom.

  Treat shields per manufacturer's installation instructions.
  Shields are sometimes part of the energy management.

Quote:
5 - If you have two set of similar wires - Example: A RS232 from one Nav/Comm and another Nav/Comm keep them apart and/or use shielded wires.

  There is no reason for doing this.
Barry - There sure is!  You do what you can where you can to keep the noise down OR you are forced to live with it.
 
Quote:
If we attempted
  to keep everythting separated behind the panel
  of a King Air, it would look like a spider-web
  as opposed to an organized, mechanically
  secure installtion.

Barry - Spider Web.  They are very organized.  It's the Rat's Nest I despise.   
You keep separated what you can.  You use shielded wire where you can.  You of course do not have to go weird in your actions.
But, the issue becomes a problem AFTER the wiring is complete and THEN you find you have noise.
Then you scramble with capacitors, coils and filter networks - Maybe or Maybe not being able to  solve the problem ONLY to find proper wiring would have eliminated the noise.
Why scramble for a band-aid instead of eliminating the problem?

Quote:
Quote:
Side note:  I have installed 4 sets of Garmin G5's.  NOISE is a huge issue with them.  I use Toroids on the B+ hot wires, wrap them well, the more wraps the better and ONLY on the B+ Positive wire.

  Noise from where to where? What is the nature
  of the noise? Are these not a DO160
  qualified system?
Barry - I do not know!  They are a Garmin system (LCD Attitude Indicator, ASI, VSI, HSI and they interface to Panel Mounted GPS & A/P) pretty much an all glass panel.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/announcement-g5-electronic-flight-instrument-as-dghsi-in-certificated-aircraft/

 
Quote:
Is the G5 the victim or
  the antagonist?

Barry - It is the VICTIM, as the G5 has a Noise Testing program built into them.
The big issue of noise, is because it has a remote mounted Magnetometer.
Barry
Quote:


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rick(at)beebe.org
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Question: can these wires be put in one wire bundle? Reply with quote

On 10/7/2018 2:41 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Quote:
Is the G5 the victim or
Quote:
  the antagonist?

Barry - It is the VICTIM, as the G5 has a Noise Testing program built into them.
The big issue of noise, is because it has a remote mounted Magnetometer.




The GMU11 magnetometer is susceptible to noise, as I discovered. I ended up rewiring my strobe lights before it would pass the interference test. To be fair, I mounted the GMU11 in the tail (fiberglass plane) in the spot where the Whelen powerpack used to live. I had replaced the Whelen units with Aveo LED units but used the existing wire so it was spliced right near the GMU 11. Also the shields were not contiguous out to the lights. In the end I pulled new shielded wire from the lights directly to the panel switch and that solved my interference problem. Perhaps if I had located the magnetometer in the wing I wouldn't have had an issue. But I don't think it's fair to say the G5 is susceptible to noise. By their nature, magnetometers are sensitive beasts.

--Rick


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:39 am    Post subject: Question: can these wires be put in one wire bundle? Reply with quote

Rick:
You did right by mounting the Magnetometer in the tail.  
As I said I  have installed four G5 systems.  Of course I tried the wing as my first location on my first job.
It was difficult to run the wires and there were other problems:
a> If you go far out on the wing to get away from the noise of the engine compartment you become too close to the wing tip strobe.
b> And just the opposite when you move the Magnetometer closer to the engine compartment to get away from the noise of the wing tip strobe, you get too close to the engine compartment noise.
Ya can't win for loosing!

On Sun, Oct 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:

Quote:
On 10/7/2018 2:41 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Quote:
Is the G5 the victim or
Quote:
  the antagonist?

Barry - It is the VICTIM, as the G5 has a Noise Testing program built into them.
The big issue of noise, is because it has a remote mounted Magnetometer.



 But I don't think it's fair to say the G5 is susceptible to noise.
Barry - You DON'T!  It is totally fair to call a spade a spade.  They are very susceptible to noise.  So much so that Garmin installed a Noise Detecting Program.  How can you not say they ARE susceptible?  You even make that statement ;-p
Quote:
By their nature, magnetometers are sensitive beasts.

--Rick

Barry - So, you did Very Good mounting it in the tail.   It was probably even easier to install and will be easier to access to work on - Well, I don't know your plane but it is in the planes I have installed them in.
Rick, did you notice there is a wire length [sort of] limit for the Magnetometer?  They want you to keep it 15 ft or less.  That was a hard STRETCH of the wire situation.
There is another issue that has snuck its head into our 'modern' aviation world.  Things Change - Way Back in Bob N.'s day of King Air and simple bundles of wires with ALL cables bundled together is No Longer.  We have new items entering the market place every day and many produce noise.  We have to do what ever we can to reduce and eliminate all sorts of noise.  Here on this list we spoke about the modern noise from LED's.  It's not going away.  
Simple procedures like twisting power wires may help.  And, if it does not, it ain't gaun-a hurt!  I use Red and Black wires constantly to show the power wires, it just makes things easier.  I also use Blue, Yellow, Green and White. Very Happy    No Chartreuse!  It clashes with my eyes.
Barry


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