Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
BBS Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

PASS-THROUGH CHARGER
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Hi Werner:

I did not consider a DC - DC Converter...  when you say clean, you are referring to no noise over radios and headsets?
I guess if I go that direction the only other thing would be a charger for the battery?
Going to Mouser right now.
Thanks Werner,
Barry

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net (glastar(at)gmx.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net (glastar(at)gmx.net)>

 Barry,

 I have very good experience with Traco Power DC-DC converters, they come
 in all kind of varieties, also high power once, they are clean and work
 perfect since over 15 years in my plane

 Mouser does sell them

 Cheers Werner





- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Dave:
Very good point.
I read only ONE review where they stated RFI/NOISE.
Just last night I came from a meeting where others (2 ea) have used the 12 VDC to an adjustable 5 VDC Converter and did not have ANY noise issues.  
The only point they bring up is DO NOT turn on and off the converter rapidly or under heavy/full load.  Other than that all is good.  I think I'm going to look for a robust converter and use it.  Along with a simple DPST switch and a Battery backup (12 VDC (at) 12 AH).
THANK YOU GUYS,
Barry
On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 5:36 PM BMC_Dave <bmcdave85(at)gmail.com (bmcdave85(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BMC_Dave" <bmcdave85(at)gmail.com (bmcdave85(at)gmail.com)>

I'm needing to do the same for my Stratux. Looking at these converters it seems they like to belt out the EMI. Have you had any issues with yours?

I found this one that's nice and sealed too:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WVLFYJH/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?pd_rd_i=B06WVLFYJH&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f52e26da-1287-4616-824b-efc564ff75a4&pf_rd_r=M3XWWYVBPFRG1XHN219V&pd_rd_wg=Z6c64&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=qoucR&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=427a9c19-c751-11e8-8c11-7fd735fac2a8&th=1




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483579#483579






===========
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========





- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Quote:

Bob, I'd be interested to see your OV protection circuit. I don't have an immediate need for it, but it sounds like something useful to add to my toolbox. Thanks.

Eric

[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20181004174841.0605cab0(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img]

It's a variation on the crowbar protection
system . . . but instead of breaking the
DC/DC converter's output feeder, you break
the power input feeder. The trip point is
precisely set at 5.2V


Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List



1d1287.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  84.24 KB
 Viewed:  77 Time(s)

1d1287.jpg


Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Quote:
Just last night I came from a meeting where others (2 ea) have used the 12 VDC to an adjustable 5 VDC Converter and did not have ANY noise issues.
The only point they bring up is DO NOT turn on and off the converter rapidly or under heavy/full load.


Can't imagine why this would be. What's the
risk? These devices tend to have built
in current limiting and soft start features.



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
rick(at)beebe.org
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit  page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub...  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it  back up...  Well, you get the idea!!!




- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

At 12:41 PM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Quote:
There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.

Such a battery would be no different functionally
than the ship's battery in your airplane, or the
battery in any other vehicle.

Any secondary (rechargeable) battery takes on
energy at some voltage level higher than
where it delivers energy. One could consider
crafting a 3 stack array of LiFePO cells
which will top off at about 12.0 volts.
A charger and cell-balancing system could
be crafted to tap ship's bus voltage
for battery charging. Downstream of that
you incorporate a dc/dc down-converter to
deliver 5.0 plus/minus 0.1 volts to the
system.

The dc/dc converter doesn't care if the
battery is being charged or not. Similarly,
the battery charger doesn't care if the
battery is loaded . . . or not. One would
want to include low voltage shut down for
the dc/dc converter if the array of cells
drops below 3 volts/cell.

I suspect this narrative pretty much
describes the stand-by battery product
we were talking about a couple weeks ago.



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

I have followed this thread for some time. What is missing is what I found to be the problem. The approximately 2 amps of current necessary at start up cannot be supplied by most usb micro cables. I tried several with poor results. I finally bought the mico usb plugs and used a larger wire and thus did not experience the voltage drop. This is what I am using now with no problems.

Tim Shankland

From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:51 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER


At 12:41 PM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Quote:
There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.

Such a battery would be no different functionally
than the ship's battery in your airplane, or the
battery in any other vehicle.

Any secondary (rechargeable) battery takes on
energy at some voltage level higher than
where it delivers energy. One could consider
crafting a 3 stack array of LiFePO cells
which will top off at about 12.0 volts.
A charger and cell-balancing system could
be crafted to tap ship's bus voltage
for battery charging. Downstream of that
you incorporate a dc/dc down-converter to
deliver 5.0 plus/minus 0.1 volts to the
system.

The dc/dc converter doesn't care if the
battery is being charged or not. Similarly,
the battery charger doesn't care if the
battery is loaded . . . or not. One would
want to include low voltage shut down for
the dc/dc converter if the array of cells
drops below 3 volts/cell.

I suspect this narrative pretty much
describes the stand-by battery product
we were talking about a couple weeks ago.

Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”.
A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it.
If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.


On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:

There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery. I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub... I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it back up... Well, you get the idea!!!




- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Alec:
If that was the case then how do all the planes out there charge their batteries while flying and how do ALL the cars out there charge their batteries while driving?
The answer is very simple:
The Charge Voltage and Current is MORE that the System Drain.
The charge voltage has to be 13.8 to 14.2/5 VDC.
The system on most planes is only 12 VDC (Battery Voltage) or LESS!
Yes, there are 24 V systems.
Your explanation is 99% correct, BUT!  The battery is in PARALLEL with the load, so as long as the supply is higher than the load the battery will charge.  The load will run off the Alternator via the ACU.
Barry


On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:20 PM Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:

Quote:

You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”. 
A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it. 
If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.


On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:

There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit  page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub...  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it  back up...  Well, you get the idea!!!







- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Because while the battery is charging, it’s not being “used”.
While the battery is being charged, the power to drive the instruments or other load that is connected in parallel with the battery, is not coming from the battery.
Charging, or being used. One or the other, at any moment, but not both.

On Oct 5, 2018, at 21:51, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
If that was the case then how do all the planes out there charge their batteries while flying and how do ALL the cars out there charge their batteries while driving?
The answer is very simple:
The Charge Voltage and Current is MORE that the System Drain.
The charge voltage has to be 13.8 to 14.2/5 VDC.
The system on most planes is only 12 VDC (Battery Voltage) or LESS!
Yes, there are 24 V systems.
Your explanation is 99% correct, BUT! The battery is in PARALLEL with the load, so as long as the supply is higher than the load the battery will charge. The load will run off the Alternator via the ACU.
Barry


On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:20 PM Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:

Quote:

You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”.
A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it.
If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.


On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:

There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery. I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub... I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it back up... Well, you get the idea!!!







- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:06 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Alec,

WELL, I guess technically you are sort of correct.  BUT!!  Can the the system/load run off the alternator with out the battery being connected? You are saying the battery can do only one thing at a time.  Not on my plane, as I have an alternator that requires a Field Voltage.  Remove the battery and there is no field voltage.
Your explanation sounds like there is a switch that turns the battery on and off.
Taking it in and out of the circuit.
To prove your point, connect an O Scope to the battery and just look for spikes going all the way to ZERO.  Ripple does not count, unless you want to get drunk ;-D
Barry 

On Saturday, October 6, 2018, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Because while the battery is charging, it’s not being “used”.
While the battery is being charged, the power to drive the instruments or other load that is connected in parallel with the battery, is not coming from the battery.
Charging, or being used. One or the other, at any moment, but not both.

On Oct 5, 2018, at 21:51, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
If that was the case then how do all the planes out there charge their batteries while flying and how do ALL the cars out there charge their batteries while driving?
The answer is very simple:
The Charge Voltage and Current is MORE that the System Drain.
The charge voltage has to be 13.8 to 14.2/5 VDC.
The system on most planes is only 12 VDC (Battery Voltage) or LESS!
Yes, there are 24 V systems.
Your explanation is 99% correct, BUT!  The battery is in PARALLEL with the load, so as long as the supply is higher than the load the battery will charge.  The load will run off the Alternator via the ACU.
Barry


On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:20 PM Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:

Quote:

You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”. 
A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it. 
If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.


On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:

There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit  page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub...  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it  back up...  Well, you get the idea!!!









--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Technically correct is the best kind of correct to be Smile

Any instant the battery terminal voltage is above (say) 12.5V, no current is being withdrawn from the battery. During that time the alternator field is being driven by the alternator, and not the battery. The battery might be doing some smoothing effects, but it’s not providing any power, to anything, as long as the engine is turning and the alternator is functioning.

I once had a mechanic explain to me that the battery powers the avionics, and the alternator recharges the battery. This isn’t so: For as long as the alternator is working normally and the engine is running, the alternator powers the avionics and keeps the battery topped up. Power is only withdrawn from the battery when the alternator isn’t functioning.

On Oct 6, 2018, at 9:06 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Alec,

WELL, I guess technically you are sort of correct. BUT!! Can the the system/load run off the alternator with out the battery being connected? You are saying the battery can do only one thing at a time. Not on my plane, as I have an alternator that requires a Field Voltage. Remove the battery and there is no field voltage.
Your explanation sounds like there is a switch that turns the battery on and off.
Taking it in and out of the circuit.
To prove your point, connect an O Scope to the battery and just look for spikes going all the way to ZERO. Ripple does not count, unless you want to get drunk ;-D

Barry
On Saturday, October 6, 2018, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:
Because while the battery is charging, it’s not being “used”.

While the battery is being charged, the power to drive the instruments or other load that is connected in parallel with the battery, is not coming from the battery.

Charging, or being used. One or the other, at any moment, but not both.

On Oct 5, 2018, at 21:51, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Alec:

If that was the case then how do all the planes out there charge their batteries while flying and how do ALL the cars out there charge their batteries while driving?

The answer is very simple:
The Charge Voltage and Current is MORE that the System Drain.
The charge voltage has to be 13.8 to 14.2/5 VDC.
The system on most planes is only 12 VDC (Battery Voltage) or LESS!
Yes, there are 24 V systems.

Your explanation is 99% correct, BUT! The battery is in PARALLEL with the load, so as long as the supply is higher than the load the battery will charge. The load will run off the Alternator via the ACU.

Barry

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:20 PM Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:
You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”.

A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it.

If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.

On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> wrote:

There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.

--Rick
On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery. I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub... I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it back up... Well, you get the idea!!!


--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

At 07:15 PM 10/5/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”.

A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it.

If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.

Correct. We're never simultaneously 'charging'
and 'discharging' the battery.

If you start you car with a heavily depleted
battery, a substantial portion of the alternator's
output will be dedicated to replacing the
battery's lost energy. AT THE SAME TIME,
the alternator picks up system loads in
the vehicle. So yes, the battery isn't
both charging and supplying energy to the
system loads.

In fact, during normal operations for
the configuration I proposed, the battery
would only be used to power the 5v system
loads while the engine is still off in
preflight. But as soon your chartger circuit
is supplied with power from as the ship's
the battery gets replenished and the 5v
system continues to function.

If the ship's main power is not available,
then the battery steps in to supply system
power





Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1289
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

All electrical loads will draw current from the source with the highest voltage. When the alternator is operating, its voltage is higher than the battery voltage. Thus the alternator will be powering all loads. The battery could be disconnected and the electrical system will continue to operate. However, the battery does provide stabilization. When my PC680 battery failed open due to a broken internal weld, everything kept working. But the voltage was unstable, fluctuating up and down by a volt, if I remember right. That fluctuation set off voltage alarms in my Dynon D-180.

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Joe Gores
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rick(at)beebe.org
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

You misunderstand. Many people use those little ready built battery packs that you can use to recharge your phone on-the-go. Not all of those can be charged at the same time they're in use. Here's one that can be:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MQSMEEE/
The original poster is using something like that and charging it at home. As many suggested, a simple solution is simply to use a 12v USB adapter to power the Stratux directly from the plane. But there was also a comment about still wanting it to be on a battery. So one alternative is to use the USB adapter to charge up the battery pack shown above and power the Stratux from the battery.
--Rick

On 10/5/2018 8:15 PM, Alec Myers wrote:

Quote:
You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”. 


A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it. 


If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.










On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:



There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit  page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub...  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it  back up...  Well, you get the idea!!!






- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

So it’s a matter of terminology, but that’s not actually a battery (which is a battery of cells in series) - that’s a power pack consisting of a battery and some power management circuitry. it’s not a two terminal device any more.

On Oct 6, 2018, at 14:33, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:

You misunderstand. Many people use those little ready built battery packs that you can use to recharge your phone on-the-go. Not all of those can be charged at the same time they're in use. Here's one that can be:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MQSMEEE/
The original poster is using something like that and charging it at home. As many suggested, a simple solution is simply to use a 12v USB adapter to power the Stratux directly from the plane. But there was also a comment about still wanting it to be on a battery. So one alternative is to use the USB adapter to charge up the battery pack shown above and power the Stratux from the battery.
--Rick

On 10/5/2018 8:15 PM, Alec Myers wrote:

Quote:
You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”.


A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it.


If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.










On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:



There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery. I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub... I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it back up... Well, you get the idea!!!






- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Hi Rick:
I am the original poster and also the same guy that wants to have the battery connected and charging (as required) with the RPi & Stratux.  The other thing I  wish to do is NOT use a standard 5 VDC battery pack but use a 12 VDC (at) 12 AH battery.
Thanks to WERNER, and his idea of using a DC to DC Converter the project now has a Solution.
The project will:
1 - Run off the plane's power.
2 - Have a separate Power Source - 12 VDC battery
3 - Have an output of 5.2 VDC (at) 3 Amps to run the RPi.
Oh!  Side note:  Remember "Strike Finders"?
Well, RPi now has a version of Strike Finder which is told to  be more accurate and more sensitive.  
SO...  My project will have more than enough power to run a second RPi.
Barry


On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 2:38 PM Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:

Quote:

You misunderstand. Many people use those little ready built battery packs that you can use to recharge your phone on-the-go. Not all of those can be charged at the same time they're in use. Here's one that can be:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MQSMEEE/
The original poster is using something like that and charging it at home. As many suggested, a simple solution is simply to use a 12v USB adapter to power the Stratux directly from the plane. But there was also a comment about still wanting it to be on a battery. So one alternative is to use the USB adapter to charge up the battery pack shown above and power the Stratux from the battery.
--Rick

On 10/5/2018 8:15 PM, Alec Myers wrote:

Quote:
You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”. 


A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it. 


If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.










On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org (rick(at)beebe.org)> wrote:



There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit  page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.
--Rick

On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub...  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it  back up...  Well, you get the idea!!!








- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Barry

I’m curious - how are you intending to connect things so that the project will both run off the plane’s power, and have its own 12v battery?

On Oct 6, 2018, at 8:36 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Rick:

I am the original poster and also the same guy that wants to have the battery connected and charging (as required) with the RPi & Stratux. The other thing I wish to do is NOT use a standard 5 VDC battery pack but use a 12 VDC (at) 12 AH battery.
Thanks to WERNER, and his idea of using a DC to DC Converter the project now has a Solution.

The project will:
1 - Run off the plane's power.
2 - Have a separate Power Source - 12 VDC battery
3 - Have an output of 5.2 VDC (at) 3 Amps to run the RPi.

Oh! Side note: Remember "Strike Finders"?
Well, RPi now has a version of Strike Finder which is told to be more accurate and more sensitive.
SO... My project will have more than enough power to run a second RPi.

Barry
On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 2:38 PM Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> wrote:
You misunderstand. Many people use those little ready built battery packs that you can use to recharge your phone on-the-go. Not all of those can be charged at the same time they're in use. Here's one that can be:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MQSMEEE/

The original poster is using something like that and charging it at home. As many suggested, a simple solution is simply to use a 12v USB adapter to power the Stratux directly from the plane. But there was also a comment about still wanting it to be on a battery. So one alternative is to use the USB adapter to charge up the battery pack shown above and power the Stratux from the battery.

--Rick
On 10/5/2018 8:15 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
Quote:
You can’t charge a battery at the same time as it is “in use”.

A battery is a two terminal device: either you are pushing current into it, in which case you’re charging it, or you’re withdrawing current, in which case you’re “using” it.

If the terminal voltage is higher than the sum of the series cell voltages then current will flow into the battery. If the terminal voltage is lower than the sum of the cell voltages then current is being withdrawn. It can’t be both at the same time.





On Oct 5, 2018, at 13:41, Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org> wrote:

There was quite a discussion on the Stratux Reddit page about the hunt for a battery that could be charging at the same time it was in use. I don't remember what the consensus was, now, but that's another option to look for. That said, I, like the other folks here, just have mine plugged into a USB power supply connected to my avionics bus. Haven't had any issues with file system corruption yet.

--Rick


On 10/3/2018 2:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
> I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
> It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
> The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
> At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
> Here is the frustrating part:
> The RPi requires a power source that is a battery. I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
> Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
> So, here is the rub... I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it back up... Well, you get the idea!!!
>



- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group