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Pilots need to know flap angle

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billderou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

Question for those lucky folks that are currently flying -

   

  How useful is it to know the flap angle from an RV-10  pilots perspective?  I can easily provide a display to show a coarse setting (Ray Allen POS-12), a very exact setting (string pot) or simply do nothing. The do nothing choice corresponds to flaps all the way up or all the way down with a quick look out the window to confirm.

   

  Is knowing the intermediate angle useful? If so, how accurate?

   

  Bill DeRouchey

  N939SB, #40029, billderou(at)yahoo.com (billderou(at)yahoo.com)

  flyable in 3 days, DAR schedule?

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

If you're going to indicate at all, it would be nice to either

have the variable indication on a display, or at least

a 4 position indication to work with the Flap Position System

from Van's.  Other than that, I wouldn't bother with a system

that only reads the two extremes.  Personally, I'm not all

convinced an indicator system is a big deal on the -10 as it's

very easy to see where the flaps are positioned by a quick

glance.  Others who thought it was a big deal that I didn't

have an indicator have actually changed opinions after going

for a flight in the plane.  That said, a 4 position indicator

would be kind of cool if it were very cheap and very simple.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Bill DeRouchey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Question for those lucky folks that are currently flying -

  

 How useful is it to know the flap angle from an RV-10  pilots 

 perspective?  I can easily provide a display to show a coarse setting 

 (Ray Allen POS-12), a very exact setting (string pot) or simply do 

 nothing. The do nothing choice corresponds to flaps all the way up or 

 all the way down with a quick look out the window to confirm.

  

 Is knowing the intermediate angle useful? If so, how accurate?

  

 Bill DeRouchey

 N939SB, #40029, billderou(at)yahoo.com <mailto:billderou(at)yahoo.com>

 flyable in 3 days, DAR schedule?

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

  Strictly from an automatic control point-of-view, it is necessary.  Vans flap positioning system comes with a position sensor but those of us using another system need another way of sensing it and I think most are going with the POS-12.  I know one builder threw together a linear sensor for about 5 bucks in Radio Shack parts.  I’m going to use Aircraft Extras FPS+ with trim compensation so I will be mounting a POS-12 similar to how the recent posts show.  

   

  It’s probably most critical to know that they are up or down.  Anything in between is just gravy.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:21 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Pilots need to know flap angle  

  

     

Question for those lucky folks that are currently flying -  

    

   

    

How useful is it to know the flap angle from an RV-10  pilots perspective?  I can easily provide a display to show a coarse setting (Ray Allen POS-12), a very exact setting (string pot) or simply do nothing. The do nothing choice corresponds to flaps all the way up or all the way down with a quick look out the window to confirm.  

    

   

    

Is knowing the intermediate angle useful? If so, how accurate?  

    

   

    

Bill DeRouchey  

    

N939SB, #40029, billderou(at)yahoo.com (billderou(at)yahoo.com)  

    

flyable in 3 days, DAR schedule?

Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

I've only flown a -10 once, but I know in my RV-4 that I never position

the flaps anywhere but full up or full down.  A position sensor is

unnecessary since it is easy to glance over your shoulder and see where

the flaps are.



I'm now officially an RV-10 builder.  Ordered my empennage kit this

morning (trying to beat the Oshkosh rush)



Jack Phillips

Raleigh, NC



--

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

At night?  You're able to see well enough at night?  In the rain?  



And, congratulations, BTW!  What's your number?  



John Jessen

  ~328

 



--

Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

OK, John - you got me with that one.  My RV-4 has only VFR instruments,

so I don't fly it in serious IFR at night.  I have flown it in some

pretty heavy rain in the daytime (no more than I have to though as I

don't like flying a wooden prop in rain).  Dark is not a problem as I

have black marks on the flap leading edges that show against the white

wings, even in the dark, as long as there is some moonlight.  Actually,

even if you can't see it you can still get an idea of the flap position

by listening to the flap motor since it makes a different sound once the

flaps reach the stop (either stop).



I haven't gotten my number yet - just faxed Van's my order this morning

and they haven't gotten back to me.  I suppose they are well into the

700's now.



Jack Phillips



--

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

Or he flies with Night Vision goggles . . .



TDT

 Do not archive

--

Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

Just got the number.  #40610



Jack Phillips



Do Not Archive



--

toaster73(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

Congrats Jack!

-Chris Lucas

#40072

---

dmasys(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 At night?  You're able to see well enough at night?  In the rain?  


	


There is no flap position sensor on my -7A  and although for the first hundred flight hours or so I would look out the window to see flap position, it really isn't necessary once you get to know your airplane because you can feel the difference in the stick pressure combined with the view out the front window in the approach attitude.  It's also pretty simple to just hold the flap switch for the number of seconds that correspond to partial and full flap positioning.  



It is one of those nice to have things, but much more relevant for a spam can like my C182, where one didn't have the nice 'rack and pinion steering in 3 dimensions' that you get with an RV.  You can really feel the airplane flying in an RV -- all the way through flare to touchdown.



-Dan Masys

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

That’s a very good question.  I was up flying yesterday in N415EC and it seemed as though the flaps were down 3 degrees, or in the 0 position, however is best to say that.  Depending on how you handle them, the best thing to do to make sure they are up in flight is to just leave the flap switch in the up position (don’t get a flap switch with momentary up).  This will insure they are up.  If you have the positioning system, when you click down the first time, they will go from up 3 degrees to neutral, the second time they will go to 15 degrees, and the third time they will go to 30 degrees.  15 and 30 are pretty easy to see, and the other two shouldn’t be a big issue if you just leave the switch up when you are wanting to cruise, or if you wonder, then push it up for a couple of seconds to see if they move up any more.  An indicator would be nice, but I don’t think it is necessary.  I have seen others just put three pieces of colored tape on the wing with steps that indicate flap position from the pilot’s seat.  This is the easy and cheap way to have an indicator.  

   

Do not archive.  

     

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:21 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Pilots need to know flap angle  

  

     

Question for those lucky folks that are currently flying -  

    

   

    

How useful is it to know the flap angle from an RV-10  pilots perspective?  I can easily provide a display to show a coarse setting (Ray Allen POS-12), a very exact setting (string pot) or simply do nothing. The do nothing choice corresponds to flaps all the way up or all the way down with a quick look out the window to confirm.  

    

   

    

Is knowing the intermediate angle useful? If so, how accurate?  

    

   

    

Bill DeRouchey  

    

N939SB, #40029, billderou(at)yahoo.com (billderou(at)yahoo.com)  

    

flyable in 3 days, DAR schedule?  

    

   

  

   

--

 No virus found in this incoming message.

 7/17/2006

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: Pilots need to know flap angle

Totally agree.  Plus, as Dan Masys mentioned, he can feel the stick

pressure difference in his 7A.   In the RV-10, you won't notice

much going from -3 to 0.  In fact, I rarely, if ever, use the 0

position.   Then when passing to the next stop, you get a little

stick force and trim it out.  It's easy to see that you have

the flaps in mid position down.  But, when you finally go full

flaps, the RV-10 has tons of re-trimming to do, with a much

larger nose drop, and it's unmistakable from both flying qualities,

and visual look of the flaps, that you are at full flaps.

So you will definitely know on landing where you're at.  If there's

one time you may NOT know, it would be on a climb out.

So far, on thankfully only ONE occasion, while being much too

conversational with a buddy on takeoff, I did a touch and go

and didn't retract the flaps.  It climbed pretty well, but I

didn't get airspeed to go over about 85kts or so.  Right away

that triggered the thought to check the switch, and sure enough,

the switch wasn't up.  One click and we were moving faster.

As Jesse said, with the non-momentary switch, you just flip it up

and if it's in the up position, the flaps will retract completely.

I guess missing it once in 90 hours isn't too bad.  Stick 2 pilots

who are good buddies who haven't seen eachother for a year in the

front seat, and you have the recipe for inattentive disaster,

regardless of the indicators.   Nice thing the -10 still climbs

well with full flaps!



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jesse Saint wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   That’s a very good question.  I was up flying yesterday in N415EC and it 

 seemed as though the flaps were down 3 degrees, or in the 0 position, 

 however is best to say that.  Depending on how you handle them, the best 

 thing to do to make sure they are up in flight is to just leave the flap 

 switch in the up position (don’t get a flap switch with momentary up).  

 This will insure they are up.  If you have the positioning system, when 

 you click down the first time, they will go from up 3 degrees to 

 neutral, the second time they will go to 15 degrees, and the third time 

 they will go to 30 degrees.  15 and 30 are pretty easy to see, and the 

 other two shouldn’t be a big issue if you just leave the switch up when 

 you are wanting to cruise, or if you wonder, then push it up for a 

 couple of seconds to see if they move up any more.  An indicator would 

 be nice, but I don’t think it is necessary.  I have seen others just put 

 three pieces of colored tape on the wing with steps that indicate flap 

 position from the pilot’s seat.  This is the easy and cheap way to have 

 an indicator.

 

  

 

 Do not archive.

 

  

 

 Jesse Saint

 

 I-TEC, Inc.

 

 jesse(at)itecusa.org <mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org>

 

 www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>

 

 W: 352-465-4545

 

 C: 352-427-0285

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill DeRouchey

 *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 11:21 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Pilots need to know flap angle

 

  

 

 Question for those lucky folks that are currently flying -

 

  

 

 How useful is it to know the flap angle from an RV-10  pilots 

 perspective?  I can easily provide a display to show a coarse setting 

 (Ray Allen POS-12), a very exact setting (string pot) or simply do 

 nothing. The do nothing choice corresponds to flaps all the way up or 

 all the way down with a quick look out the window to confirm.

 

  

 

 Is knowing the intermediate angle useful? If so, how accurate?

 

  

 

 Bill DeRouchey

 

 N939SB, #40029, billderou(at)yahoo.com <mailto:billderou(at)yahoo.com>

 

 flyable in 3 days, DAR schedule?

 

  

 

  

 

 --

 No virus found in this incoming message.

 7/17/2006

 

 

 --

 7/17/2006

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