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instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

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Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I 

don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as 

possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as 

possible.



1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel 

while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?

         a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics 

mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?

         b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the 

sub-panel? What?

         c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before 

installing the upper fwd fuse?



2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting 

it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the 

cover only clecoed vs riveted?



3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?



I appreciate any input you might have.



THANKS

Deems Davis # 406

Finishing Fuse / Finishing

http://deemsrv10.com/

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

Deems Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I 

 don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as 

 possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as 

 possible.

 

 1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel 

 while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?

         a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics 

 mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?


	


I put a larger one in.  No huge reason, but it ended up coming in

handy to use as arm and vision access while mounting the Lightspeed

and WSI stuff on the aft side of the upper firewall.  I put a bunch

ov various holes in the subpanel for wire passthroughs.



 	  Quote: 	
		           b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the 

 sub-panel? What?


	


I have an E-Bus schottky diode there, in a protective case.

And, I put the stall buzzer there too.

 	  Quote: 	
		           c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before 

 installing the upper fwd fuse?

 

 2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting 

 it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the 

 cover only clecoed vs riveted?

 


	


I think you'll naturally feel when you need to have it riveted

by just working along through the plans.  I can't see why you

wouldn't be able to fit the doors without riveted, but you

should probably install the countersunk bolts before fitting the doors

so that everything is at least in the exact place.

 	  Quote: 	
		   3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the 

 Fuse?

 


	


I don't know. It may be easier to install the windows with it off, but

it may make it harder to work with the canopy when putting it on,

and it would sure not be fun if you dislodged or scratched them in

some freak happening while reattaching the canopy.

 	  Quote: 	
		   I appreciate any input you might have.

 


	




You're getting to the point where some of the things start to get

a little tougher for the tall/older/slightly oversized.  I fit into

a couple of those categories well, and one slightly.   I wired

my panel almost fully while installed.  Not that I think that's

best....I had my reasons, but I can definitely see benefits of

doing it out of the plane too.  But anyway, you're reaching the point

where you start physically suffering a bit more in the build.

I would just say try to have anything placed on the firewall inside

that you intend to leave there.  Ground tab blocks, large wire

passthroughs, and anything like that.  You can actually attach

the canopy and leave the forward fuse off for a while if you wish.

I think I did the canopy on mine before the forward fuse, and just

slid it in place later.  So I think it's plenty do-able.  It

won't be too long though after where you're at and you'll be

putting a windshield in, and other things, so access will definitely

get harder.  You're coming up on what I think is about the 1/2

way point of the kit in terms of hours pretty soon...about

the time you put the windshield in.  So now things start to

get both harder, and more fun.  Just hang in there.  One thing

you DON'T want to attach until the last minute is the sticks.

Leave the seats out as long as possible too.  That way you can

lay a board down over the seat area and lay on it.



Tim



 	  Quote: 	
		   THANKS

 

 

 Deems Davis # 406

 Finishing Fuse / Finishing

 http://deemsrv10.com/

ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

Thanks for breaking my day Tim :-<   

I am at the same point as Deems, and after 2.3 years and more than 1700hrs (Slow build), the reality of still being less than 1/2 way there is bit hard to deal with. I was really hoping to be done by this time next year.  

Ron  

187 - finishing kit is somewhere in Oz.   

--

billderou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

I approached the fwd upper fuselage, panel, and cabin in the following order and in hindsight it worked well.

   

  Before the panel & fwd upper fuse were riveted to the lower fuselage I installed avionics, glass PFD, autopilot, engine monitor, voltage regulator, switch, and map box while the unit was on the bench. Three wire bundles [engine bay, left side run, right side run] were collected with long tails and each wire labeled with masking tape. A 37pin Amp plug was mounted to the sub-panel and all panel wiring passes through this plug. My fuse box, from West Marine, was installed on the sub-panel with only three fuses on the outer panel to shed load during an electrical emergency.

   

  Rivet the unit to the fuselage and run the bundles into the engine compartment and down the left and right sides. Now two work areas can be addressed independently - engine  compartment and cabin. The wires on the side were either spliced or routed to one of my three connectors [L & R wing,  tail].

   

  The cabin was permanently installed next. I do not think the doors can be fitted properly unless the fiberglass cabin is in its final resting place. The doors are seated into the cabin opening by beveling both/either edges and small changes in the outer shell can have big effects on the door fit.

   

  Before I cemented the front windscreen, I installed the GPS antenna far forward in line with the co-pilot. Note that I also left vertical space so the antenna could be replaced with a newer antenna that supports WAAS.

   

  Windows, cabin doors, and FWF were next. Last item riveted were the two top tail skins. Leaving this to last was a big help routing wires through the tail.

   

  Bill DeRouchey - billderou(at)yahoo.com (billderou(at)yahoo.com)

  N939SB, Kit #40029

  Fly next week

   

   

   

   

   

    



Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis 



I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I 

don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as 

possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as 

possible.



1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel 

while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?

a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics 

mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

Deems,



  One of the local builders here didn't install the forward deck until

he was a couple weeks from flying.  Why?  Thank a certain panel builder

for their timely delivery.   He had everything done, hung, installed

except for the windscreen, cowl, and anything that would attach to the

deck.



Michael Sausen

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

--

jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

Bill, can you post photos  of the connector locations. Your description was helpful. Thanks.

  

  John Testement

jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com (jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com)

40321

 Richmond, VA

Finish kit - gear legs and  wheels

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill  DeRouchey

Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:56 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: instrument sub-panel,  fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

 

 I approached the fwd upper fuselage, panel, and cabin in the following  order and in hindsight it worked well.

  

 Before the panel & fwd upper fuse were riveted to the lower  fuselage I installed avionics, glass PFD, autopilot, engine monitor,  voltage regulator, switch, and map box while the unit was on the bench. Three  wire bundles [engine bay, left side run, right side run] were collected  with long tails and each wire labeled with masking tape. A 37pin Amp  plug was mounted to the sub-panel and all panel wiring passes through this  plug. My fuse box, from West Marine, was installed on the sub-panel  with only three fuses on the outer panel to shed load during  an electrical emergency.

  

 Rivet the unit to the fuselage and run the bundles into the engine  compartment and down the left and right sides. Now two work areas can be  addressed independently - engine compartment and cabin. The wires on the side  were either spliced or routed to one of my three connectors [L & R  wing,  tail].

  

 The cabin was permanently installed next. I do not think the doors can be  fitted properly unless the fiberglass cabin is in its final resting place. The  doors are seated into the cabin opening by beveling both/either edges and  small changes in the outer shell can have big effects on the door fit.

  

 Before I cemented the front windscreen, I installed the GPS antenna  far forward in line with the co-pilot. Note that I also left vertical space  so the antenna could be replaced with a newer antenna that supports WAAS.

  

 Windows, cabin doors, and FWF were next. Last item riveted were the two top  tail skins. Leaving this to last was a big help routing wires through the  tail.

  

 Bill DeRouchey - billderou(at)yahoo.com (billderou(at)yahoo.com)

 N939SB, Kit #40029

 Fly next week

  

  

  

  

  

   



Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis 



I'd like    any input regarding the installation of the above items. I 

don't bend like    I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as 

possible, to that end    I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as 

possible.



1. What    things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel 

while it's    'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?

a. Other than the    modifications to open up areas for avionics 

mounting, what other access    holes have builders put in the

   

--

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by  Release    Date: 7/13/2006

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel 

while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?

         a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics 

mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?

         b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the 

sub-panel? What?

         c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before 

installing the upper fwd fuse?



Jesse: I just put in one big hole for the radio stack, then used the bottom

of the sub-panel to hold adel clamps that all of my wires go through, then

put holes and snap bushings in the sub-panel to route wires through to the

firewall and down to the sides of the plane.  I have my instrument cooling

fan, power distribution bus block, MAP Sensor, Ammeter Shunt, and dimmer

boards all on the sub-panel.  That makes it really nice to work on the

wiring just by removing the panel.  Also, I have the crossbar under the

instrument panel (although removeable with screws) there as an armrest

if/when needed.  In N256H we almost completely removed the sub-panel and

then used angles to stiffen it back up, but then we had no good place to

mount all of the things mentioned above.  To each his own, but this worked

great for us.



2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting 

it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the 

cover only clecoed vs riveted?



Jesse: You can leave it there for as long as you want, but it will limit the

amount of work that you can do.  You may be able to fit the doors safely,

but I don't know it I recommend it.  Fitting the doors is a pretty important

part.  I guess, if you were to go ahead and bolt/screw the cabin top in

where the door goes, then cleco it where all the pop rivets go, it should be

pretty good.  What are you trying to avoid by leaving it off.  It is

possible to install the upper forward fuse section after the cabin top is in

place, although it is not quite as easy.



3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?



Jesse:  I am sure it would be a fair bit easier with the cover off, but much

safer with it on, because you really want to have it in the exact form that

it will stay in before gluing the windows in IMHO.



Hope this helps.



Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

W: 352-465-4545

C: 352-427-0285



--

Ted French

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Kelowna BC Canada

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

I installed the forward fuse assembly, but left the top skin off. Everything

will be installed behind the panel in such a way that I can remove it to

rivit the top skin on. As much panel wiring as possible is done on the

bench.



Do Not Archive



Ted French

RV-10  wiring

--

_________________
Ted French
RV-10 fuselage

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

One big part of this equation is that installing it is only part of the

decision.  Working on it, upgrading, modifying is another huge part.  The

more stuff you put in a place that will be hard to get to, the more you may

end up hating yourself down the road.  Personally, I like the idea of being

able to install the entire panel, including wiring runs for the whole

fuselage, after the plane structure is complete.  If I can get there in the

first place, then I can get there to fix it.  It might not look quite as

neat under there when I am done, or quite as clean as having everything on

forward side of the sub-panel, but I guarantee you are going to have fits

when (not if) it comes time to change something.



This brings up another issue.  For those who are using Van's standard panel,

cut the thing into at least 2 pieces.  That thing is a very tight fit in one

piece, and you are guaranteed to scratch stuff getting it in and out.  The

easier it is to take out, the less time you will spend on your back working

under there and the more time you will spend sitting in the nice comfortable

seat working back there with the panel removed.  This is just IMHO, but I

have done two now, two different ways, and I am realizing how much of a pain

it is to work under that panel.



Do not archive.



Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

W: 352-465-4545

C: 352-427-0285



--

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

As a "computer hacker sitting at flat screen LCD monitors with 1680x1050

resolution who design aircraft subsystems", I feel hurt . . .  : )



TDT

40025

Do not archive



--

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

Anyone trying to make these vunderbar panels tilt down or slide out or

somehow easily removable for future repair or rewire work?  Got some

examples you're willing to share.  And for those who have been silent all

this time while building the stealth OSH winner, could you please consider

sharing so others can benefit?  



Many thanks



John Jessen

  -328  (about ready to resume building again, now that the rental is back

together) 



--

wayne.e(at)grandecom.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

John,

  

 I am having Stein's group build my panel and  they will be using the modular type panel like the photos that are  attached. Apparently it is a very flexible unit, depending on what you want. The  pictures shows it as already being cut but they obviously cut it to  whatever you need. It's also, I believe, about 2" longer than the panel from  Van's, allowing a little more room to fit stuff in. I like the idea that I will  be able to take section apart to get at the equipment.

  

 Wayne Edgerton #40336

 working on the baffling baffles

  

  

  

[img]cid:006a01c6a73a$9405fd00$7601a8c0(at)MainOffice[/img] 

  

[img]cid:006b01c6a73a$940846f0$7601a8c0(at)MainOffice[/img] 

  

[img]cid:006c01c6a73a$940846f0$7601a8c0(at)MainOffice[/img] 

  

[img]cid:006d01c6a73a$940846f0$7601a8c0(at)MainOffice[/img] 

  

[img]cid:006e01c6a73a$940846f0$7601a8c0(at)MainOffice[/img] 

  

[img]cid:006f01c6a73a$940846f0$7601a8c0(at)MainOffice[/img] 

  

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jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

Very nice!  Cost?  

     

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton

 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:42 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions  

  

         

John,  

    

   

    

I am having Stein's group build my panel and they will be using the modular type panel like the photos that are attached. Apparently it is a very flexible unit, depending on what you want. The pictures shows it as already being cut but they obviously cut it to whatever you need. It's also, I believe, about 2" longer than the panel from Van's, allowing a little more room to fit stuff in. I like the idea that I will be able to take section apart to get at the equipment.  

    

   

    

Wayne Edgerton #40336  

    

working on the baffling baffles  

    

   

  

  

    

   

  

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C6A724.38BAB820[/img]  

   

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C6A724.38BAB820[/img]  

   

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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions

A truly breath-taking example of quality construction, excellent

aesthetics, improved function and the best serviceability of any RV-10

panel yet.



Your's give's Jim Hergert's N6XE panel a major run for its money.  Jim's

is my benchmark for High Score (as Randy, Tim, Deems and others already

know).  You have raised the bar and hopefully others will take the

challenge.  It is great to see a three dimensional approach to leave the

two dimensional panels on the birds of the past.  The pictures are

worthy of archive and further study.



Congrats Wayne!



Did you do the fabrication and send it to Stein or is this his work as

well?



John - $00.02

Do not Archive



--

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