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Weather capabilities and severe turblance

 
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Jon Reining



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot.

On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down.

In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton?

Jon Reining
40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities)


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jjessen



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

My oh my oh my! Thank you for sharing this and thank goodness you got down
and safely so. I, too, am ready to spend whatever big bucks is required for
at least XM weather and some form of traffic / terrain. Am going to be very
interested in this thread.

John J

do not archive

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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

  Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service like XM, and also/or a Stormscope.  Remember that datalinked weather isn't real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give you good trend and near real time weather.  Stormscopes on the other hand will show you current lightning which is almost always hand in hand with severe convective activity.

  I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive

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deej(at)deej.net
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

Quote:


In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the
capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel.
In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble,
what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather
dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get
weather


You may consider looking into ADS-B. It does not cover all of the
US yet, but
it will over the next several years. Up front equipment costs, but no
monthly or other
subscription fees for traffic and weather information. The equipment is
really expensive
right now, but I hope it comes down by the time I need to buy to install.

http://www.adsb.gov/

http://www.ads-b.com/

-Dj


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Deems Davis



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

I flew with a Strikefinder in my B55 Baron's and they were VERY
effective in identifying thunderstorms, and much less expensive. I also
had onboard radar on one of them, and I preferred the Strikefinder data,
(The radar is sometimes dificult to interpret if you don't fly it
regularly (my case).

Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote] Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to
avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service
like XM, and also/or a Stormscope. Remember that datalinked weather
isn't real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give
you good trend and near real time weather. Stormscopes on the other
hand will show you current lightning which is almost always hand in
hand with severe convective activity.

I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS
but it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment
to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive

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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest





PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

Jon,

That's quite a story! Glad it all ended well for you.
You should feel comforted.... With the Chelton system,
you can currently get WSI, but I'm guessing a bit
later this year you'd be able to get XM. Both are
satellite based systems that have no ties to ATC.
WSI weather is actually what FSS uses themselves,
from what I've been told. With various packages,
you can have TFR's, lightning strikes, Nexrad,
and all the goodies you're looking for, and they are
very nicely used on the Chelton, because they'll
automatically overlay many functions right on your
main map page, or you can get a larger picture on a
zoom and pan-able page. So I think you'll be very
pleased.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jon Reining wrote:
Quote:

<jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com>

I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in
his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on
the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's
is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500'
dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot.

On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our
weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay
Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how
it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the
hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't
look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR,
received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in
IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a
thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of
control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees
to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our
maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our
attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a
full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and
maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and
instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C
outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job
getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope
to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the
weather capabilities of his radar were down.

In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the
capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel.
In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble,
what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather
dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get
weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no
lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have
detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options?
Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can
definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic
vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on
the Chelton?

Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings
and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities)




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36025#36025




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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest





PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

I forgot to mention.... Jon, if you're not happy enough with
just Nexrad and strikes shown by XM/WSI, the Chelton will
also integrate to the WX-500 stormscope, so you can have that
too, on it's own dedicated page.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
[quote] Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to
avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service like
XM, and also/or a Stormscope. Remember that datalinked weather isn't
real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give you good
trend and near real time weather. Stormscopes on the other hand will
show you current lightning which is almost always hand in hand with
severe convective activity.

I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but
it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make
sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all.


Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive

--


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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest





PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

Have 15 years using a Strikefinder and found them to be very helpful in
avoiding the bad stuff (turbulence and hail) Came through an area IMC at
5000 near Cross City Florida where there were no strikes and had a smooth
ride with moderate to very heavy rain. The airplane was leaking around the
doors. When I popped into blue sky I looked back and asked myself "Did I
come through that" a cliff of clouds with tops to FL400. At least in my book
the game is stay away from the strikes.

For the 10 I considered the Strikefinder but have delayed purchase and am
now experimenting with XM weather and Truemap software in my Glastar. I will
know more about using XM after the OSH trip and then perhaps can make an
informed decision on Strikefinder (cost $5000) or XM weather (monthly
charges forever).
---


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jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest





PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:00 am    Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Reply with quote

Jon,

We have XM weather in our -10. It is great. Usually ATC lets us know what
is coming, but we can see it onscreen before we hear it from them. We can
see the build-ups before they are thunderstorms with the echo tops feature.
We can see the movement and growth of the storms with Nexrad and Strikes.
We can tell what is happening at nearby airports with Metars and TAFs. We
wouldn't be without it. We had one flight where the -10 was in the soup
from 10 minutes after take-off until final, and the flight was over 4 hours.
Without the weather onboard, that would have been a no-go or detour trip.
Even in the soup, you know what is liveable soup and what it "bounce you
around and fold your wings" soup because of the weather.

We are using a flight cheetah by true flight (www.trueflight.org). If I
understand correctly, the Chelton's can also show all of this information.

Don't leave home without it.

Do not archive.

Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545

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