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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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I just didn’t want to get into the politics of it... When I went to a boarding house once I was told to stay away form the topics of politics and religion... that pretty much left the weather as a topic of discussion 
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: January 23, 2010 10:40 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: More on ethanol
Noel:
The powers powers to be were the DAM-O-CRATS (Ted Kennedy) that pushed for a STRONG EPA. So strong that MTBE was recommended by the EPA with OUT ANY TESTING or proof of what the intended results would be. YES, the molecular size of MTBE is so small that a SPILLED quantity would seep right through a CEMENT/CONCRETE platform and pollute the ground and migrate to water supplies. But that STILL was not enough to cause the recall of MTBE. What really hurt ... Hurt the POCKETBOOK was that minimum wage, non-English speaking, illegal immigrants were SUING Big Business and WINNING BIG BUCK$. Because of the medical issues MTBE was causing upon pump jockeys. This cut into profits and if not for hurting profits we would STILL be using MTBE.
So, where does ETHANOL come in? It is GRAIN ALCOHOL. It has NOTHING to do with clean air. It has to do with Backroom Politics ... One hand washes the other. Huge Government contracts were going to the coastal states and Middle America was not getting pieces of the pie. So, how can that be remedied? Hey, will take grains (mostly corn) and convert them over to alcohol add it to our GAS once again believing and using the UN-TESTED METHODS of the EPA - AGAIN - And force the PEOPLE of the United States to buy it. Hey it is only 10%! But, EVERYONE seems to have forgotten how inexpensive a loaf of bread use to be. Ask your WIFE! Middle America can make MORE money selling Government Supported - FUNDED - Ethanol than it can selling a loaf of bread. AND as gas millage goes down because of ETHANOL ... SO WHAT! The EPA said it was a good thing.
But here is where I have a math problem. If we get 10% less fuel economy doesn't that mean we burn 10% more fuel? And if we are burning 10% more fuel doesn't that mean we are producing 10% more pollution?
What's gone the way of the Gooney Bird is 'Common Sense" and a Government of the People, BY the People and For the People.
DON'T GET ME STARTED! ! ! Bend over America!
Barry
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)> wrote:
As far as I know the powers to be wanted to get the MTBE (Methyl tert-butyl ether out of the gas. The MTBE was added as an octane booster but when underground fuel tanks started leaking as the sometimes do a little MTBE would pollute a large quantity of groundwater..
The idea was to add ethanol which has an RON of 116 as the booster in place of the MTBE. The some yahoo got the idea of using it as a replacement for gas. There are problems with that. I really feel sorry for the people who went out and bought the so called flex fuel vehicles as they don’t work as well on fuel that has not been doctored with ethanol... Believe me when the full story is out on ethanol fuel it will go the way of the gooney bird in North America.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of blumax008(at)aol.com (blumax008(at)aol.com)
Sent: January 22, 2010 10:43 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: More on ethanol
In a message dated 1/21/2010 6:56:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca) writes:
| Quote: |
Apparently that’s what they are making the underground fuel tanks out of now. |
Yeah, then the powers-that-be will come up with another super-duper additive that eats the underground fuel tanks & they'll have to replace all of them...again. We got some real thinkers in government now.
Way to go Massachusetts!
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com |
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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jlhazen(at)copper.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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Noel, I hate to break the bad news to you but the weather/climate is no longer a safe subject. As a pilot you are one of the evil doers that are responsible for global warming. Thanks to people like us, the polar bears are dying. Besides, AGW is now a religion with Algore as it's high priest.
From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 13:52
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: More on ethanol
I just didn’t want to get into the politics of it... When I went to a boarding house once I was told to stay away form the topics of politics and religion... that pretty much left the weather as a topic of discussion
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: January 23, 2010 10:40 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: More on ethanol
Noel:
The powers powers to be were the DAM-O-CRATS (Ted Kennedy) that pushed for a STRONG EPA. So strong that MTBE was recommended by the EPA with OUT ANY TESTING or proof of what the intended results would be. YES, the molecular size of MTBE is so small that a SPILLED quantity would seep right through a CEMENT/CONCRETE platform and pollute the ground and migrate to water supplies. But that STILL was not enough to cause the recall of MTBE. What really hurt ... Hurt the POCKETBOOK was that minimum wage, non-English speaking, illegal immigrants were SUING Big Business and WINNING BIG BUCK$. Because of the medical issues MTBE was causing upon pump jockeys. This cut into profits and if not for hurting profits we would STILL be using MTBE.
So, where does ETHANOL come in? It is GRAIN ALCOHOL. It has NOTHING to do with clean air. It has to do with Backroom Politics ... One hand washes the other. Huge Government contracts were going to the coastal states and Middle America was not getting pieces of the pie. So, how can that be remedied? Hey, will take grains (mostly corn) and convert them over to alcohol add it to our GAS once again believing and using the UN-TESTED METHODS of the EPA - AGAIN - And force the PEOPLE of the United States to buy it. Hey it is only 10%! But, EVERYONE seems to have forgotten how inexpensive a loaf of bread use to be. Ask your WIFE! Middle America can make MORE money selling Government Supported - FUNDED - Ethanol than it can selling a loaf of bread. AND as gas millage goes down because of ETHANOL ... SO WHAT! The EPA said it was a good thing.
But here is where I have a math problem. If we get 10% less fuel economy doesn't that mean we burn 10% more fuel? And if we are burning 10% more fuel doesn't that mean we are producing 10% more pollution?
What's gone the way of the Gooney Bird is 'Common Sense" and a Government of the People, BY the People and For the People.
DON'T GET ME STARTED! ! ! Bend over America!
Barry
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)> wrote:
As far as I know the powers to be wanted to get the MTBE (Methyl tert-butyl ether out of the gas. The MTBE was added as an octane booster but when underground fuel tanks started leaking as the sometimes do a little MTBE would pollute a large quantity of groundwater..
The idea was to add ethanol which has an RON of 116 as the booster in place of the MTBE. The some yahoo got the idea of using it as a replacement for gas. There are problems with that. I really feel sorry for the people who went out and bought the so called flex fuel vehicles as they don’t work as well on fuel that has not been doctored with ethanol... Believe me when the full story is out on ethanol fuel it will go the way of the gooney bird in North America.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of blumax008(at)aol.com ([email]blumax008(at)aolcom[/email])
Sent: January 22, 2010 10:43 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: More on ethanol
In a message dated 1/21/2010 6:56:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca) writes:
| Quote: |
Apparently that’s what they are making the underground fuel tanks out of now. |
Yeah, then the powers-that-be will come up with another super-duper additive that eats the underground fuel tanks & they'll have to replace all of them...again. We got some real thinkers in government now.
Way to go Massachusetts!
012
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occom
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:05 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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WTF do you mean, don't get you started? You started yourself. I really don't
give a hoot about your hatred of any political party in what to me is a
foreign country. I'm sure you can find lots of your own countrymen to argue
or agree as you will over your politics, but this isn't the place.
In return for your silence on how much you hate the great satan of your
choice, I will stay silent on a vast array of opinions I hold on global
warming, torture, your country's foreign policy, Bush, Cheney, Republican
news media ETC. I'm sure you'll agree that this group will be much better
without all that.
---
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daberti(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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I’ll make sure to file this with all the other loud mouth bigoted comments I hear and assign a credibility score of zero to the poster. I have many an hour pumping gas, breathing asbestos dust during brake jobs, working with Trichloroethylene etc. prior to any of them being exposed as a health issue so if someone sues over an occupational health issue on these or any other products and wins that’s fine with me.
--
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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Noel, Rotax engines are a safe topic. :-}
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Dave <daberti(at)sbcglobal.net (daberti(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote]
I’ll make sure to file this with all the other loud mouth bigoted comments I hear and assign a credibility score of zero to the poster. I have many an hour pumping gas, breathing asbestos dust during brake jobs, working with Trichloroethylene etc. prior to any of them being exposed as a health issue so if someone sues over an occupational health issue on these or any other products and wins that’s fine with me.
--
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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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blumax008(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: More on ethanol |
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Hey,
When I was a kid growing up on a farm in Mississippi, I used to lay on the ground between rows of cotton & let an old Piper Cub fly over & dust me with DDT. Did that for summers & loved it. I'm 61 now, strong as a bull & more healthy than many teenagers around Florida here. What was that broads name, Rachael somebody....Carson, that's it....who started all this BS about DDT etc? Then, as usual, everybody had to jump on the bandwagon. Monkey see, monkey do and all that.
Does anybody know where I find some asbestos? I need to go breathe some. It'll probably extend my lifespan.
To keep it on subject, I've got three 503s & love them all. Great motors!
[quote][b]
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occom
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: More on ethanol |
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And how shall we respond, with silence? Outrage? A silly, stupid diatribe of our own? It's clear that education had little effect on you either, perhaps you are immune to everything. I suggest you experiment.
[quote] ---
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blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: More on ethanol |
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In a message dated 1/24/2010 10:16:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca writes:
| Quote: | | It's clear that education had little effect on you either, perhaps you are immune to everything. I suggest you experiment. |
That's the problem with our country my man....EDUCATION IS KILLING IT.
Now you need to say something to keep it on subject. You didn't.
Let's see, I have an oil seal leak in my C-box.
That should do it.
[quote][b]
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:25 am Post subject: Re: More on ethanol |
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| blumax008(at)aol.com wrote: |
To keep it on subject, I've got three 503s & love them all. Great motors!
|
To chime in on the 503, that's still my favorite Rotax engine. I like my 912 so far, especially not having to tear it down every 150 or so hours, but the 503 is still my ideal. It's also still the best bang/buck ratio available in an aircraft engine (for 50hp that is).
The 503 was also included in the approval last summer of 10% ethanol, tho personally I'd be a little more vigilant about storage there. I.e. keeping water out of it during the downtime as those needle bearings are very susceptible to corrosion, etc.
Wish I had a plane that used the 503. We should snap them up before Rotax quits making them (their sales of the 2-strokes have been declining for years and it soon won't be cost-effective for them to keep making it).
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:33 am Post subject: More on ethanol |
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In a message dated 1/24/2010 10:26:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Wish I had a plane that used the 503. We should snap them up before Rotax quits making them (their sales of the 2-strokes have been declining for years and it soon won't be cost-effective for them to keep making it).
|
Don't worry...Pratt & Whitney quit making the R985 & 1340s etc. decades ago & overhaulers are still turning them out...almost as good as new.
Thanks for the compliments on the 503. I never pay attention to the recommended overhaul times anyway. My last one (503) went over 1,200+ hours with only 3 tops & didn't need an overhaul then but I did it anyway. Replaced one piston & a set of rings in all those hours. Pennzoil.
[quote][b]
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: Re: More on ethanol |
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| blumax008(at)aol.com wrote: |
Don't worry...Pratt & Whitney quit making the R985 & 1340s etc. decades ago & overhaulers are still turning them out...almost as good as new.
Thanks for the compliments on the 503. I never pay attention to the recommended overhaul times anyway. My last one (503) went over 1,200+ hours with only 3 tops & didn't need an overhaul then but I did it anyway. Replaced one piston & a set of rings in all those hours. Pennzoil.
|
The 300hr overhaul spec is kind of an anachronism, IMO. It's also probably what is deep-six'ing the 2-strokes in SLSA - for that cert., the engine manuals are _law_ and so you _have_ to overhaul at 300 hours to stay airworthy.
It's kind of like the CHT limits which are off by almost 100F. Probably because in the early days of the 503 with the non-provision crankcases. The crankshafts were a real weak spot on the engines back then so 300 hours probably wasn't outlandish.
Now, tho, with the significantly strengthened crankshaft/cases of the provision 8 motors, the cranks can keep going as long as the top ends, which last for a lot longer than 300 hours......
But rotax has never updated the manuals if they've even done any kind of testing to raise the TBO like they've done with the 912 series. Go figure.
The 582 I'd still replace the bottom end at 300 hours tho, as it really is kind of overpowered for the crank it uses....
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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mikenjulie.parkin(at)btin
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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blumax008(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Don't worry...Pratt & Whitney quit making the R985 & 1340s etc. decades
ago & overhaulers are still turning them out...almost as good as new.
|
| Quote: |
Thanks for the compliments on the 503. I never pay attention to the
recommended overhaul times anyway. My last one (503) went over 1,200+ hours
|
with only 3 tops & didn't need an overhaul then but I did it anyway.
Replaced one piston & a set of rings in all those hours. Pennzoil.
Reminds me of Trigger in 'Only Fools and Horses'. He still had the same
road sweeping brush after 20 years...... he'd only had 10 new heads and 5
new shafts.
Forgive my levity, but the Brits will understand.
Regards,
Mike
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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I’m with you Girard problem is at the average boarding house around here a Rotax engine is also a skidoo engine. That makes this a better place
Noel
Back to installing a 912
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
Sent: January 23, 2010 7:44 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: More on ethanol
Noel, Rotax engines are a safe topic. :-}
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Dave <daberti(at)sbcglobal.net (daberti(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
I’ll make sure to file this with all the other loud mouth bigoted comments I hear and assign a credibility score of zero to the poster. I have many an hour pumping gas, breathing asbestos dust during brake jobs, working with Trichloroethylene etc. prior to any of them being exposed as a health issue so if someone sues over an occupational health issue on these or any other products and wins that’s fine with me.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 08:10
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: More on ethanol
Noel:
The powers powers to be were the DAM-O-CRATS (Ted Kennedy) that pushed for a STRONG EPA. So strong that MTBE was recommended by the EPA with OUT ANY TESTING or proof of what the intended results would be. YES, the molecular size of MTBE is so small that a SPILLED quantity would seep right through a CEMENT/CONCRETE platform and pollute the ground and migrate to water supplies. But that STILL was not enough to cause the recall of MTBE. What really hurt ... Hurt the POCKETBOOK was that minimum wage, non-English speaking, illegal immigrants were SUING Big Business and WINNING BIG BUCK$. Because of the medical issues MTBE was causing upon pump jockeys. This cut into profits and if not for hurting profits we would STILL be using MTBE.
So, where does ETHANOL come in? It is GRAIN ALCOHOL. It has NOTHING to do with clean air. It has to do with Backroom Politics ... One hand washes the other. Huge Government contracts were going to the coastal states and Middle America was not getting pieces of the pie. So, how can that be remedied? Hey, will take grains (mostly corn) and convert them over to alcohol add it to our GAS once again believing and using the UN-TESTED METHODS of the EPA - AGAIN - And force the PEOPLE of the United States to buy it. Hey it is only 10%! But, EVERYONE seems to have forgotten how inexpensive a loaf of bread use to be. Ask your WIFE! Middle America can make MORE money selling Government Supported - FUNDED - Ethanol than it can selling a loaf of bread. AND as gas millage goes down because of ETHANOL ... SO WHAT! The EPA said it was a good thing.
But here is where I have a math problem. If we get 10% less fuel economy doesn't that mean we burn 10% more fuel? And if we are burning 10% more fuel doesn't that mean we are producing 10% more pollution?
What's gone the way of the Gooney Bird is 'Common Sense" and a Government of the People, BY the People and For the People.
DON'T GET ME STARTED! ! ! Bend over America!
| Quote: | | ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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Noel Loveys
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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More is known about metrology (sp?) than 70 0r 80 yr ago when those engines were first designed... That means the rebuilts are probably better than they were when they were new.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of blumax008(at)aol.com
Sent: January 24, 2010 12:03 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: More on ethanol
In a message dated 1/24/2010 10:26:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com writes:
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Wish I had a plane that used the 503. We should snap them up before Rotax quits making them (their sales of the 2-strokes have been declining for years and it soon won't be cost-effective for them to keep making it). |
Don't worry...Pratt & Whitney quit making the R985 & 1340s etc. decades ago & overhaulers are still turning them out...almost as good as new.
Thanks for the compliments on the 503. I never pay attention to the recommended overhaul times anyway. My last one (503) went over 1,200+ hours with only 3 tops & didn't need an overhaul then but I did it anyway. Replaced one piston & a set of rings in all those hours. Pennzoil.
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Noel Loveys
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: More on ethanol |
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Good one!
Noel
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