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Come again?

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barry(at)flyredstar.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: Come again?

On Feb 19, 2006, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   If they want to

 require nomex flight suits and prevent some people from participating,

 that is their prerogative.


	


Huh????  If you are suggesting that a Nomex flight suit requirement for 

association sponsored formation training is *preventing* some people 

from participating, could you please share how that is so?



As your Regional Coordinator, I need to know these things....

Barry Hancock		

Western Regional Coordinator

RedStar Pilots Association

(949) 300-5510

www.flyredstar.org

"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"

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brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: Come again?

Barry Hancock wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > If they want to

> require nomex flight suits and prevent some people from participating,

> that is their prerogative.

 Huh????  If you are suggesting that a Nomex flight suit requirement for

 association sponsored formation training is *preventing* some people

 from participating, could you please share how that is so?

This is supposed to be a dead issue at this point but you can answer

your own question. If a person pays his/her money and shows up at ARS

without a flight suit, will you refuse or permit him/her to train? If

you permit him/her, then there is no flight suit requirement and I

retract all I have said. If you refuse then the point is moot.

-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: Come again?

Don't discard the psychological benefits of group  insignia and "uniforms/flight suits" in formation flying and disciplined group  tasks. Especially those requiring absolute concentration and knowledge of  what your part is in that group.

  

 Flight suits definitely have a purpose in  this. A few quotes from Col. Larry Donnithornes' excellent book "The West  Point Way of Leadership"pg 29; (Follwership is job One for a good  leader.)

  

 "Leaders of successful organizations make sure  their followers are proud to be part of their company. For this to happen, the  followers as individuals, and the organization as a whole, must have values in  common.

  

 For example, plebes must learn military ranks,  insignia, shoulder patches, and medals - and what they are awarded for. The  benefit, vis-a-vis for group values, is immediate." They know  their own invaluable purpose in the group and the place and  function of everyone else they meet. They are part of something bigger than  themselves.

  

 pg 20; "If followership is the beginning of  leadership, the beginning of followership is getting to zero; realizing all that  you don't know, then opening yourself to the possibility of being remade into  something more. For us, followership is a form of self-mastery, mastering the  ego."

  

 The best and worst part of the pilot psyche is that  we're all hard-headed, opinionated, self motivated and educated. We're used to  standing our ground on our own way of doing things and our minds are just  another part of the mechanics of the machines we fly.

  

 Synchronize your watches, synchronize your plans,  and synchronize your mindsets and you will have a great deal more power as a  group than you would acting alone. Flight  suits and insignia are just another symbolic tool to help us promote  this.

  

 Just a thought guys...Take it or toss it. It always  helps to know "why" you're doing something.

  

 - V

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bill.mills(at)totaltec.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: Come again?

Couldn’t agree more…….. nice post Val.  

     

[i]Bill  Mills[/i]  

[i]USNA ‘86[/i]  

   

[i]" Because I fly.... I envy no man "[/i][i] [/i]  

        

  

From: Valkyre1 [mailto:Valkyre1(at)comcast.net] 

 Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:50 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Come again?  

  

     

Don't discard the psychological benefits of group insignia and "uniforms/flight suits" in formation flying and disciplined group tasks. Especially those requiring absolute concentration and knowledge of what your part is in that group.  

    

   

    

Flight suits definitely have a purpose in this. A few quotes from Col. Larry Donnithornes' excellent book "The West Point Way of Leadership"pg 29; (Follwership is job One for a good leader.)  

    

   

    

"Leaders of successful organizations make sure their followers are proud to be part of their company. For this to happen, the followers as individuals, and the organization as a whole, must have values in common.  

    

   

    

For example, plebes must learn military ranks, insignia, shoulder patches, and medals - and what they are awarded for. The benefit, vis-a-vis for group values, is immediate." They know their own invaluable purpose in the group and the place and function of everyone else they meet. They are part of something bigger than themselves.  

    

   

    

pg 20; "If followership is the beginning of leadership, the beginning of followership is getting to zero; realizing all that you don't know, then opening yourself to the possibility of being remade into something more. For us, followership is a form of self-mastery, mastering the ego."  

    

   

    

The best and worst part of the pilot psyche is that we're all hard-headed, opinionated, self motivated and educated. We're used to standing our ground on our own way of doing things and our minds are just another part of the mechanics of the machines we fly.  

    

   

    

Synchronize your watches, synchronize your plans, and synchronize your mindsets and you will have a great deal more power as a group than you would acting alone. Flight suits and insignia are just another symbolic tool to help us promote this.  

    

   

    

Just a thought guys...Take it or toss it. It always helps to know "why" you're doing something.  

    

   

    

- V  

    

   

    

   

  



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brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: Come again?

Valkyre1 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Don't discard the psychological benefits of group insignia and 

 "uniforms/flight suits" in formation flying and disciplined group tasks. 

 Especially those requiring absolute concentration and knowledge of what 

 your part is in that group.


	


Ah, a logical and reasoned approach to "why wear flight suits"!



I personally think the points of group skill and discipline can be 

accomplished without arbitrary uniforms but your point is well taken for 

large groups as a whole. It certainly works for the military and 

certainly works in the likes of the enlisted ranks. The inherent 

internal discipline in the officer corps is less dependent on the 

outward trappings of the group.



Still, I like your approach.



Brian

brian-yak(at)lloyd.com

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