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lacloudchaser(at)yahoo.co
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 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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Just to make sure this discussion does not distort the RedStar Pilots Associations policy, it's easy to get this discussion twisted to look like your association says you must wear a flight suit always - thats nonsense, the board never voted for that and never would - that's your decision.
The RPA as a collective organization does not make you wear a flight suit in your personal flying - in formation training/display sorties at RPA formation training events/clinics it does require a flight suit by the flight members. This policy is upheld by our flight leads at events/clinics, thats many of you, as they have final say who they have in their flights. Thats a pretty small window for that policy and when I head to events like Waycross this year I publicly ask the flight members about their support of this event policy, the feedback is supportive as the right thing to do. Beyond that, the collective groups discussions on the proven safety benefits of wearing a flight suit in good condition during our flying is a healthy one.
Folks, the completely new website is open that resolved the navigation issues, it has full online courseware written by members on Mass Formation, Tactical Formation, as well as a flight training documents library, members links site, FAST currency roster posted, CFI Roster posted, new By-Laws posted, there's now a site for treasury reports and meeting minutes. Thanks to all the volunteers, I hope the site better serves the pilot group. I suspect their is some words that need correcting and if you experience any other web issues, email us at admin(at)flyredstar.org (admin(at)flyredstar.org) and someone will jump on it, it goes to about 5 diff folks....
Drew
Drew Blahnick
305.803.8158
Time: 05:57:22 PM PST US
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Flight suits, again.....
Smash, you really don't want to open this discussion. Trust me.
But.. you
kind of already did. Oh well.... My fault, not yours.
Ok.
This whole thing really boils down to a very simple fact, and it has
very
little .. if anything... to do with safety. It instead is an issue
where
one group of people is trying to tell another group of people what to
do.
One group of people thinks that they have the right to do this.
Another group of people do not agree with THAT assumption AT AL L.
It is.... in the end.... as simple as that.
As far as what you wear while flying your personal aircraft... well,
that is
your business and I will defend to the death your right to make those
decisions.
I also happen to believe that what I wear while flying MY aircraft is
simply
none of your business. I do not mean to sound impolite, just to the
point.
No matter how good OR bad your logic/arguments are .... it should
always be
my choice, and I should not have to justify that choice to you or
anyone
else with the possible exception of the FAA.
Regards,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
--
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gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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So Drew, just to put this to bed for the last time, if someone shows up at an RPA event and decides to fly naked can they ?
As I have said personally I think that protection far in advance of the green suit is a good idea for the reasons I stated earlier (bubble canopy, long down and welded gear)
Gus
[quote] From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Drew Blahnick
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:03 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Flight Suits again...
Just to make sure this discussion does not distort the RedStar Pilots Associations policy, it's easy to get this discussion twisted to look like your association says you must wear a flight suit always - thats nonsense, the board never voted for that and never would - that's your decision.
The RPA as a collective organization does not make you wear a flight suit in your personal flying - in formation training/display sorties at RPA formation training events/clinics it does require a flight suit by the flight members. This policy is upheld by our flight leads at events/clinics, thats many of you, as they have final say who they have in their flights. Thats a pretty small window for that policy and when I head to events like Waycross this year I publicly ask the flight members about their support of this event policy, the feedback is supportive as the right thing to do. Beyond that, the collective groups discussions on the proven safety benefits of wearing a flight suit in good condition during our flying is a healthy one.
Folks, the completely new website is open that resolved the navigation issues, it has full online courseware written by members on Mass Formation, Tactical Formation, as well as a flight training documents library, members links site, FAST currency roster posted, CFI Roster posted, new By-Laws posted, there's now a site for treasury reports and meeting minutes. Thanks to all the volunteers, I hope the site better serves the pilot group. I suspect their is some words that need correcting and if you experience any other web issues, email us at admin(at)flyredstar.org (admin(at)flyredstar.org) and someone will jump on it, it goes to about 5 diff folks....
Drew
Drew Blahnick
305.803.8158
Time: 05:57:22 PM PST US
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Flight suits, again.....
Smash, you really don't want to open this discussion. Trust me.
But.. you
kind of already did. Oh well.... My fault, not yours.
Ok.
This whole thing really boils down to a very simple fact, and it has
very
little .. if anything... to do with safety. It instead is an issue
where
one group of people is trying to tell another group of people what to
do.
One group of people thinks that they have the right to do this.
Another group of people do not agree with THAT assumption AT AL L.
It is.... in the end.... as simple as that.
As far as what you wear while flying your personal aircraft... well,
that is
your business and I will defend to the death your right to make those
decisions.
I also happen to believe that what I wear while flying MY aircraft is
simply
none of your business. I do not mean to sound impolite, just to the
point.
No matter how good OR bad your logic/arguments are .... it should
always be
my choice, and I should not have to justify that choice to you or
anyone
else with the possible exception of the FAA.
Regards,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
--
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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[quote] ---
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gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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I would never fly naked, remember I am the guy with fire proof underwear, but I will defend the right of Frank to wear, or not wear, whatever he chooses to fly in & Brian's personal right to ..... to be Brian. Show me a 50 cal and a lawyer and I will show you a solution.
JOKING AS ALWAYS
Gus
[quote] From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:10 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Flight Suits again...
[quote] ---
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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What's that they say about a bus full of lawyers going over a cliff with 2 empty seats? A crying SAME.
I do agree...Frank or anyone else can fly how they wish to be atired or unatired. Tis their's to choose.
Doc
[quote] ---
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brian
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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Roger Kemp wrote:
| Quote: | *Say what's the court cost and fine for indecent exposure, lurid
and lascivious behavior these days?
|
Wear a speedo. That'll fix it. If they can get away with only that on TV
for the olympics, we can certainly wear one in the cockpit.
| Quote: | As well as the cost for that
none covered psychiatric hospitalization the judge will order after
the airport security snatches your rosy pink bohuncus off the ramp.
Well maybe the city will pickup the court ordered neuropsychic
eval.cost. With all the discussion of scorched giblets and hot
roasted nuts, you now want to fly naked? Fly UNITED MAYBE but not
naked! *
*Bottom line, you can fly your airplane anyway you want as long as
it is not a hazard to someone else's safety. Because after you box,
it will be your relatives that will have to contend with the lawyers
that will surely surface from the depths of their ilk when there is
a smell of blood, er...make that ...green poultice..jack...green
stuff...wallet liner...theirs'....After all, when you hit the ground
or whatever else it was that caused your trusty stead to fail ya
by loosing that flying spirit and you just happened to have caused
personal injury to someone other than yourself, You can bet your
sweat dead ass that the lawyers will come a calling on those poor
suffering soles (parody here) that are suffering the mental anguish
of having witnessed the sight of your naked pink ass (what's left of
it that is) after it landed in po' ol' Auntie Jamelle's bedroom of
her manuf actured home off the end of 27 or what ever
runway, smoking both yourself and the dearly just departed Auntie
Jamelle!
|
Uh, so if I wear a flight suit this won't happen? Ah. Now I understand.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
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brian
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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Fraser, Gus wrote:
| Quote: | I would never fly naked, remember I am the guy with fire proof
underwear, but I will defend the right of Frank to wear, or not
wear, whatever he chooses to fly in & Brian's personal right to ..... to
be Brian. Show me a 50 cal and a lawyer and I will show you a solution.
|
Gus, you made me laugh. Not many posts just make me laugh out loud.
"...and Brian's personal right to ... to be Brian."
Yup, that's me! ROFL!
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
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BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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"in formation training/display sorties at RPA formation training events/clinics it does require a flight suit by the flight members."
Drew, the only thing I object to is the word "training" being included in the above sentence.
Did then, do now. Always will.
It is my humble opinion that receiving proper training in and performing the proper conduct of.....formation flight .....has immediate and direct impact on the safety of pilots, spectators, and aircraft world wide. The "safety" offered by wearing a Flight Suit, compared to NOT wearing a Flight Suit, pales into insignificance by comparison. Thus the rule should read that Flight Suits are RECOMMENDED for any type of formation training, but should go on to say: "we will never withhold such training from any individual who happens to not have one".
I say out loud and clearly that anyone who disagrees with this has something other than "safety" on their mind.
But............. that's just my opinion.
Mark Bitterlich
[quote] --
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david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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I think this waste of email space will run more people off .. I know I quit
reading about 40 emails back, and just hit delete.
Face it, there are a handful of people that will always have the last word,
and they usually do not agree. Now, can we use that knowledge for something
constructive again??
Emergency Procedures Discussions, Systems discussions, new avionics that
work for people, results from 100 hr inspections, things you have changed...
ect..
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BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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And I happen to think that this RPA rule has already run a lot of people off and that it impacts formation flight safety.
Regardless, you make a good point.
I am sure a lot of people have about as much interest in the RPA's insistance on wearing flight suits for training, as non RPA members are in hearing about RPA fly-in's, RPA jackets and patches, and who flew on who's wing at the last airshow.
I am all for the discussions that you mention, but if you are going to condemn one type of discussion that does not meet your pure objectives, then you must condemn them all.
And no, this is not an attempt at a last word... this is no such thing on list servers.
mgb
--
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david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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Point taken.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:04 PM
To: 'yak-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Flight Suits again...
And I happen to think that this RPA rule has already run a lot of people off and that it impacts formation flight safety.
Regardless, you make a good point.
I am sure a lot of people have about as much interest in the RPA's insistance on wearing flight suits for training, as non RPA members are in hearing about RPA fly-in's, RPA jackets and patches, and who flew on who's wing at the last airshow.
I am all for the discussions that you mention, but if you are going to condemn one type of discussion that does not meet your pure objectives, then you must condemn them all.
And no, this is not an attempt at a last word... this is no such thing on list servers.
mgb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)]On Behalf Of David McGirt
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:21 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Flight Suits again...
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david(at)mcgirt.net>
I think this waste of email space will run more people off .. I know I quit
reading about 40 emails back, and just hit delete.
Face it, there are a handful of people that will always have the last word,
and they usually do not agree. Now, can we use that knowledge for something
constructive again??
Emergency Procedures Discussions, Systems discussions, new avionics that
work for people, results from 100 hr inspections, things you have changed...
ect..
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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Now, that is a fair suggestion, and a constructive one. I do not know the by laws well enough, but Mark, you should make that a formal request, and let the RPA vote on it..
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:03 PM
To: 'yak-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Flight Suits again...
"in formation training/display sorties at RPA formation training events/clinics it does require a flight suit by the flight members."
Drew, the only thing I object to is the word [b]"training"[/b] being included in the above sentence.
Did then, do now. Always will.
It is my humble opinion that receiving proper training in and performing the proper conduct of.....formation flight .....has immediate and direct impact on the safety of pilots, spectators, and aircraft world wide. The "safety" offered by wearing a Flight Suit, compared to NOT wearing a Flight Suit, pales into insignificance by comparison. Thus the rule should read that Flight Suits are RECOMMENDED for any type of formation training, but should go on to say: "we will never withhold such training from any individual who happens to not have one".
I say out loud and clearly that anyone who disagrees with this has something other than "safety" on their mind.
But............. that's just my opinion.
Mark Bitterlich
[quote]
--
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brian
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Flight Suits again... |
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David McGirt wrote:
| Quote: | Now, that is a fair suggestion, and a constructive one. I do not know
the by laws well enough, but Mark, you should make that a formal
request, and let the RPA vote on it..
|
So if enough people vote for something that is wrong, that makes it OK?
Ah, the tyranny of the masses.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
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