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Re : oil level

 
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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:53 am    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

Gilles,

You are correct that the TOTAL oil supply depends on the particular
installation due to length of oil lines and oil cooler capacity.
However, the oil cooler is normally not drained during oil/filter
change.

The magnetic drain plug is very important to inspect at every oil
change. This is the first line of defense for large chunks of ferrous
metal. You can't check and clean it without removing it.

Please post a link to or copy and paste the specific Rotax SB that
states the crank case drain plug is not to be removed during oil
change. That is counter to everything I've every studied in power plant
mechanics or ever encountered in the field.

Bob - The Rotax manual says 3 liters. 3 quarts is close enough which
on a normal oil change (not draining the cooler) but draining the
crankcase will put the oil level roughly mid-way between the min-max
lines on the dipstick. This being the case it appears that 3 liters
would put it right at the max line.

Thom in Buffalo


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

Thom Riddle a écrit :
Quote:

<jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>

Gilles,

You are correct that the TOTAL oil supply depends on the particular
installation due to length of oil lines and oil cooler capacity.
However, the oil cooler is normally not drained during oil/filter change.

The magnetic drain plug is very important to inspect at every oil
change. This is the first line of defense for large chunks of ferrous
metal. You can't check and clean it without removing it.

Please post a link to or copy and paste the specific Rotax SB that
states the crank case drain plug is not to be removed during oil
change. That is counter to everything I've every studied in power
plant mechanics or ever encountered in the field.

Thom,


I'm afraid your post got through unnoticed until today.
I agree with your statement about the importance of checking metal
particle at each oil change. This is why Rotax calls for opening and
inspecting the oil filter at each oil change.

I'd say there are two plugs in the crankcase : the lower banjo is part
of the return circuit to the oil tank, and as such should not be removed
during ordinary oil change, according to SI-912-010 R1.
The maintenance manual specifies that for changing oil, the oil TANK
plug must be used.

There is also a magnetic plug between cylinder #2 and reduction gear
case. The maintenance manual calls for inspection every 200 h and 300 h
(apart from the 25 h inspection).

Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr


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joeing701(at)internet.is
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

Hello list members.

All this talk about oil level has confused me some.
When you check the oil on a hot engine that has normal operating temps, do you
just check the dipstip without doing the turn by hand method to wait for the
slurp sound in the oil container?
If I check the oil level on hot engine, the level is low, but if I do two or
three turns for the slurping sound in the container, the level is within the
range on the stick.
Which is correct?

Thank you,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Quote:
> Gilles,
>
> You are correct that the TOTAL oil supply depends on the particular
> installation due to length of oil lines and oil cooler capacity.
> However, the oil cooler is normally not drained during oil/filter change.
>
> The magnetic drain plug is very important to inspect at every oil
> change. This is the first line of defense for large chunks of ferrous
> metal. You can't check and clean it without removing it.
>
> Please post a link to or copy and paste the specific Rotax SB that
> states the crank case drain plug is not to be removed during oil
> change. That is counter to everything I've every studied in power
> plant mechanics or ever encountered in the field.
>
Thom,

I'm afraid your post got through unnoticed until today.
I agree with your statement about the importance of checking metal particle
at each oil change. This is why Rotax calls for opening and inspecting the
oil filter at each oil change.

I'd say there are two plugs in the crankcase : the lower banjo is part of
the return circuit to the oil tank, and as such should not be removed during
ordinary oil change, according to SI-912-010 R1.
The maintenance manual specifies that for changing oil, the oil TANK plug
must be used.

There is also a magnetic plug between cylinder #2 and reduction gear case.
The maintenance manual calls for inspection every 200 h and 300 h (apart from
the 25 h inspection).

Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr





http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
http://wiki.matronics.com











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dhkey(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:00 am    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

Rotax says to turn the prop before you check the oil level.
Quote:
From: <joeing701(at)internet.is>
Reply-To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re : oil level
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:42:58 +0000



Hello list members.

All this talk about oil level has confused me some.
When you check the oil on a hot engine that has normal operating temps, do
you
just check the dipstip without doing the turn by hand method to wait for
the
slurp sound in the oil container?
If I check the oil level on hot engine, the level is low, but if I do two
or
three turns for the slurping sound in the container, the level is within
the
range on the stick.
Which is correct?

Thank you,
Johann G.
Iceland.
> > Gilles,
> >
> > You are correct that the TOTAL oil supply depends on the particular
> > installation due to length of oil lines and oil cooler capacity.
> > However, the oil cooler is normally not drained during oil/filter
change.
> >
> > The magnetic drain plug is very important to inspect at every oil
> > change. This is the first line of defense for large chunks of ferrous
> > metal. You can't check and clean it without removing it.
> >
> > Please post a link to or copy and paste the specific Rotax SB that
> > states the crank case drain plug is not to be removed during oil
> > change. That is counter to everything I've every studied in power
> > plant mechanics or ever encountered in the field.
> >
> Thom,
>
> I'm afraid your post got through unnoticed until today.
> I agree with your statement about the importance of checking metal
particle
> at each oil change. This is why Rotax calls for opening and inspecting
the
> oil filter at each oil change.
>
> I'd say there are two plugs in the crankcase : the lower banjo is part
of
> the return circuit to the oil tank, and as such should not be removed
during
> ordinary oil change, according to SI-912-010 R1.
> The maintenance manual specifies that for changing oil, the oil TANK
plug
> must be used.
>
> There is also a magnetic plug between cylinder #2 and reduction gear
case.
> The maintenance manual calls for inspection every 200 h and 300 h (apart
from
> the 25 h inspection).
>
> Regards,
> Gilles Thesee
> Grenoble, France
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





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joeing701(at)internet.is
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:40 am    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

Thank you David.

That was my understanding too, but I saw a message on the list where it
was done the other way, i.e. after shut down, just check the warm engine
without the turning. Also someone mentioned that if you turn too many
turns, the container can overfill.
This is the reason for my question.
Thanks for clearing that one, David.

Johann G.

David Key wrote:

Quote:


Rotax says to turn the prop before you check the oil level.
> From: <joeing701(at)internet.is>
> Reply-To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re : oil level
> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:42:58 +0000
>
>
>
> Hello list members.
>
> All this talk about oil level has confused me some.
> When you check the oil on a hot engine that has normal operating
> temps, do you
> just check the dipstip without doing the turn by hand method to wait
> for the
> slurp sound in the oil container?
> If I check the oil level on hot engine, the level is low, but if I do
> two or
> three turns for the slurping sound in the container, the level is
> within the
> range on the stick.
> Which is correct?
>
> Thank you,
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>


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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:38 am    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

Johann,

If checking the oil right after flight, there is no need to turn the
prop because it has been turning quite fast during the flight. The oil
drains away from the oil tank after shutting down the engine very
slowly so "turning the prop" is required to "refill" the oil tank to
its correct level, only after sitting still for some time (hours, not
minutes).

Thom in Buffalo


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Buffalo, NY (9G0)



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

This is a good list to be on.
 
You do not need to turn the prop if you've just gotten back from flying (run the engine).
 
The mag plug is very difficult to get out the first time but I have a trick when it comes to that (take the torx driver and insert into the plug and wap with a hammer), it'll come out then.  After the first 100 hours you want to look at and clean this mag plug and then every 100 hours.  It WILL have crap on it.  The only way to tell if something bad is happening in the engine is with an oil filter cutaway inspection which you will do every other change, i.e., every 50 hours.  There will also be some crap there, but not big stuff!  You can send the oil out for analysis too - overkill I would say if you follow Rotax Operating Procedures and especially to prime the system before every start.
 


---


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

Hello Thom.

Thank you for clarifying that for me. According to that method, I will
need to add some oil to my system. I will use that in the future,
satisfied knowing that my engine has the correct amount of oil.

Thanks,
Johann G.
do not archive
Thom Riddle wrote:

Quote:

<jtriddle(at)adelphia.net>

Johann,

If checking the oil right after flight, there is no need to turn the
prop because it has been turning quite fast during the flight. The oil
drains away from the oil tank after shutting down the engine very
slowly so "turning the prop" is required to "refill" the oil tank to
its correct level, only after sitting still for some time (hours, not
minutes).

Thom in Buffalo





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Tommy Walker



Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Re : oil level Reply with quote

I was re-reading the P. Lockwood article in the EAA Sport Pilot Mag today (it is either the November or December 2005 issue) regarding checking oil level in the 912 when the engine has just been shut down.

He said wait 20 minutes for the oil to collect in the crankcase, then turn the prop and listen for the gurgle in the reservoir....

For what it's worth.

Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re : oil level Reply with quote

"I was re-reading the P. Lockwood article in the EAA Sport Pilot Mag today
(it is either the November or December 2005 issue) regarding checking oil
level in the 912 when the engine has just been shut down.
Quote:

He said wait 20 minutes for the oil to collect in the crankcase, then turn the prop and listen for the gurgle in the reservoir...."

Listen to Ronnie

He says if you flip prop just after shut down, a glowing amber of carbon
can ruin your day:

http://www.ultraflightradio.com/
Ronnie Smith, South Mississippi Light Aircraft
The Rotax 912 series of engines is becoming very common to a lot of light
sport aircraft from airplanes and gyroplanes to trikes and powered
parachutes. Ronnie talks about how to preflight these engines. Ronnie is
also here to answer your four stroke and two stroke light aircraft engine
questions. Do you have any engine questions? When the show is live, call
your questions in at (888) 514-2100 or you can IM them in on AOL or Yahoo
Instant Messenger to UFRadio. South Mississippi Light Aircraft. (5/30/06)

Ron Parigoris


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