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JLuckey(at)pacbell.net
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 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:34 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Please see attached picture:
Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but to learn…
Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking structure very close to the antenna.
What do you RF gurus think?
-RF neophyte
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tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4 wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass plane.... 
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net (JLuckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:
[quote]
Please see attached picture:
Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but to learn…
Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking structure very close to the antenna.
What do you RF gurus think?
-RF neophyte
<2009.05.02 - RV-8 - ELT Ameri-King AK-451 With GPS Input Installation (12).jpg>
[b]
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
N3977A
In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
| Quote: | Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4 wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass plane....
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net (JLuckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Please see attached picture:
Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but to learn…
Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking structure very close to the antenna.
What do you RF gurus think?
-RF neophyte
<2009.05.02 - RV-8 - ELT Ameri-King AK-451 With GPS Input Installation (12).jpg>
ist href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[quote][b]
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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Jeff,
<< Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> >>
In terms of ideal electronic performance, it is a poor location. In terns of intended mission it is excellent. The tail cone location makes it very likely the antenna will survive a crash. There are enough gaps to make it likely a satellite would be able to receive a signal.
It looks like you have an RV model. In that case a better place for an ELT antenna would be under the rear portion of the canopy. But what you have will certainly be more reliable than any external mount.
Tom Kuffel
[quote][b]
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dee.whittington(at)gmail.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Bob,
As I understand it, the reason commercial airliners don't have ELTs is they are always in contact with ATC and on IFR flight plans. If they crash, there is no question of locating them unlike a GA airplane which can choose to fly VFR with no flight plan and not in touch with ATC.
Dee
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
N3977A
In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net (tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net) writes:
| Quote: | Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4 wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass plane....
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net (JLuckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:
|
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
DeWitt Whittington
www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
[quote][b]
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Good Afternoon Dee,
It is obvious that I have not presented the point in a way that you can understand my feelings. It should be a decision we make. NOT a forced solution.
We as, individuals, should be able to choose what method we want to use to maintain contact with the rest of the world.
I can do at least as good a job of providing guidance for recovery of my aircraft as do the air carriers. I might elect to fly IFR at all times or I may just decide that I do not want any help if I should fail to get where I am going.
More likely, I would carry a PLB in areas that would be difficult and nothing at all in flat land Mid America.
Lots of possibilities.
Long before the rules were forced upon us, I made a practice of carrying a portable VHF communication unit (Remember the Bayside?) and keeping a current IFR chart on board that would let me know what frequency would be monitored by aircraft in the area.
My recollection is that IFR flight was NOT mandatory for air carrier aircraft at the time the ELT was foisted upon us. It was the decision of a liberal congress critter that forced the issue. Not the FAA or the aviation industry.
The idea is one of personal choice.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 4/7/2012 1:01:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dee.whittington(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Bob,
As I understand it, the reason commercial airliners don't have ELTs is they are always in contact with ATC and on IFR flight plans. If they crash, there is no question of locating them unlike a GA airplane which can choose to fly VFR with no flight plan and not in touch with ATC.
Dee
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
N3977A
In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net (tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net) writes:
| Quote: | Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4 wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass plane....
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net (JLuckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Please see attached picture:
Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but to learn…
Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking structure very close to the antenna.
What do you RF gurus think?
-RF neophyte
|
|
|
|
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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JLuckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Tom,
To be clear, that picture is not of my airplane.
I am building an RV-7 but have not started work on my fuselage. I’m trying to gather information for decisions I will be making in the near future.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of The Kuffels
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 09:55
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Mount
Jeff,
<< Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna? >>
In terms of ideal electronic performance, it is a poor location. In terns of intended mission it is excellent. The tail cone location makes it very likely the antenna will survive a crash. There are enough gaps to make it likely a satellite would be able to receive a signal.
It looks like you have an RV model. In that case a better place for an ELT antenna would be under the rear portion of the canopy. But what you have will certainly be more reliable than any external mount.
Tom Kuffel
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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JLuckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:02 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Bob,
Do you feel the same way about anti-lock brakes, airbags, catalytic converters?
As the Original Poster for this topic, I deem that we are quickly vectoring off-topic.
If it is necessary to continue this alternate topic, let’s move it to the appropriate forum…
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 10:24
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Mount
Good Afternoon Dee,
It is obvious that I have not presented the point in a way that you can understand my feelings. It should be a decision we make. NOT a forced solution.
We as, individuals, should be able to choose what method we want to use to maintain contact with the rest of the world.
I can do at least as good a job of providing guidance for recovery of my aircraft as do the air carriers. I might elect to fly IFR at all times or I may just decide that I do not want any help if I should fail to get where I am going.
More likely, I would carry a PLB in areas that would be difficult and nothing at all in flat land Mid America.
Lots of possibilities.
Long before the rules were forced upon us, I made a practice of carrying a portable VHF communication unit (Remember the Bayside?) and keeping a current IFR chart on board that would let me know what frequency would be monitored by aircraft in the area.
My recollection is that IFR flight was NOT mandatory for air carrier aircraft at the time the ELT was foisted upon us. It was the decision of a liberal congress critter that forced the issue. Not the FAA or the aviation industry.
The idea is one of personal choice.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 4/7/2012 1:01:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dee.whittington(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: |
Bob,
As I understand it, the reason commercial airliners don't have ELTs is they are always in contact with ATC and on IFR flight plans. If they crash, there is no question of locating them unlike a GA airplane which can choose to fly VFR with no flight plan and not in touch with ATC.
Dee
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
N3977A
In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net (tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4 wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass plane....
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net (JLuckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Please see attached picture:
Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but to learn…
Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking structure very close to the antenna.
What do you RF gurus think?
-RF neophyte
|
|
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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grosseair(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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I guess we could debate forever about what should or shouldn't be the
rule, but I don't believe that was the original question. As far as the
ELT in the picture goes: I don't believe it would comply with the
manufacturer's TSO, and would for that reason not be an acceptable
solution to me personally. Whether it would work as hoped in an
emergency or be acceptable to your DAR is a question none of us can know
for sure. It's your airplane, and you are free to decide based on your
own priorities and how lucky you feel at the moment.
John Grosse
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
I can't say I follow your logic from charger to catalytic, but as Gilda
Radner said: Nevermind!
Back to your battery. I believe I saw on this list some time back a
possible "cheat" for this situation. Connect a good battery and the
dead battery in parallel with the charger. As I understand it the
charger is "tricked" into operating and will then charge both batteries.
I have brought dead batteries back with "dumb" chargers many times,
though as others have said, I wouldn't use it in a critical application.
Hope this helps.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 04/07/2012 03:01 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
| Quote: | Bob,
Do you feel the same way about anti-lock brakes, airbags, catalytic
converters?
As the Original Poster for this topic, I deem that we are quickly
vectoring off-topic.
If it is necessary to continue this alternate topic, let’s move it to
the appropriate forum…
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
*BobsV35B(at)aol.com
*Sent:* Saturday, April 07, 2012 10:24
*To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: ELT Antenna Mount
Good Afternoon Dee,
It is obvious that I have not presented the point in a way that you can
understand my feelings. It should be a decision we make. NOT a forced
solution.
We as, individuals, should be able to choose what method we want to use
to maintain contact with the rest of the world.
I can do at least as good a job of providing guidance for recovery of my
aircraft as do the air carriers. I might elect to fly IFR at all times
or I may just decide that I do not want any help if I should fail to get
where I am going.
More likely, I would carry a PLB in areas that would be difficult and
nothing at all in flat land Mid America.
Lots of possibilities.
Long before the rules were forced upon us, I made a practice of carrying
a portable VHF communication unit (Remember the Bayside?) and keeping a
current IFR chart on board that would let me know what frequency would
be monitored by aircraft in the area.
My recollection is that IFR flight was NOT mandatory for air carrier
aircraft at the time the ELT was foisted upon us. It was the decision of
a liberal congress critter that forced the issue. Not the FAA or the
aviation industry.
The idea is one of personal choice.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 4/7/2012 1:01:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
dee.whittington(at)gmail.com writes:
Bob,
As I understand it, the reason commercial airliners don't have ELTs
is they are always in contact with ATC and on IFR flight plans. If
they crash, there is no question of locating them unlike a GA
airplane which can choose to fly VFR with no flight plan and not in
touch with ATC.
Dee
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com
<mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com>> wrote:
Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit
whether or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the
owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
BrookeridgeAir Park
N3977A
In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net <mailto:tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> writes:
Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4
wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's
horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still
work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to
hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass
plane....
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net
<mailto:JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>> wrote:
> Please see attached picture:
>
> Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but
> to learn…
>
> Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
>
> I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But
> I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking
> structure very close to the antenna.
>
> What do you RF gurus think?
>
> -RF neophyte
>
* *
* *
**
**
**
*http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
**
**
*http://forums.matronics.com*
**
**
*http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
* *
*
*
|
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
Please ignore this. I posted it under the wrong subject.
My apologies.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 04/07/2012 02:35 PM, rayj wrote:
| Quote: |
I can't say I follow your logic from charger to catalytic, but as Gilda
Radner said: Nevermind!
Back to your battery. I believe I saw on this list some time back a
possible "cheat" for this situation. Connect a good battery and the dead
battery in parallel with the charger. As I understand it the charger is
"tricked" into operating and will then charge both batteries. I have
brought dead batteries back with "dumb" chargers many times, though as
others have said, I wouldn't use it in a critical application.
Hope this helps.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 04/07/2012 03:01 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Do you feel the same way about anti-lock brakes, airbags, catalytic
> converters?
>
> As the Original Poster for this topic, I deem that we are quickly
> vectoring off-topic.
>
> If it is necessary to continue this alternate topic, let’s move it to
> the appropriate forum…
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *BobsV35B(at)aol.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 07, 2012 10:24
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: ELT Antenna Mount
>
> Good Afternoon Dee,
>
> It is obvious that I have not presented the point in a way that you can
> understand my feelings. It should be a decision we make. NOT a forced
> solution.
>
> We as, individuals, should be able to choose what method we want to use
> to maintain contact with the rest of the world.
>
> I can do at least as good a job of providing guidance for recovery of my
> aircraft as do the air carriers. I might elect to fly IFR at all times
> or I may just decide that I do not want any help if I should fail to get
> where I am going.
>
> More likely, I would carry a PLB in areas that would be difficult and
> nothing at all in flat land Mid America.
>
> Lots of possibilities.
>
> Long before the rules were forced upon us, I made a practice of carrying
> a portable VHF communication unit (Remember the Bayside?) and keeping a
> current IFR chart on board that would let me know what frequency would
> be monitored by aircraft in the area.
>
> My recollection is that IFR flight was NOT mandatory for air carrier
> aircraft at the time the ELT was foisted upon us. It was the decision of
> a liberal congress critter that forced the issue. Not the FAA or the
> aviation industry.
>
> The idea is one of personal choice.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
> In a message dated 4/7/2012 1:01:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> dee.whittington(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> Bob,
>
> As I understand it, the reason commercial airliners don't have ELTs
> is they are always in contact with ATC and on IFR flight plans. If
> they crash, there is no question of locating them unlike a GA
> airplane which can choose to fly VFR with no flight plan and not in
> touch with ATC.
>
> Dee
>
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com
> <mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com>> wrote:
>
> Good Afternoon Tim,
>
> Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
>
> Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit
> whether or not it works!
>
> My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the
> owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
>
> Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
>
> Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
>
> Do Not Archive.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
> AKA
>
> Bob Siegfried
>
> BrookeridgeAir Park
>
> N3977A
>
> In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net <mailto:tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
> Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4
> wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's
> horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still
> work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to
> hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass
> plane....
>
> Tim
>
> Cozy Mk IV
>
> Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net
> <mailto:JLuckey(at)pacbell.net>> wrote:
>
>> Please see attached picture:
>>
>> Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but
>> to learn…
>>
>> Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
>>
>> I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But
>> I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking
>> structure very close to the antenna.
>>
>> What do you RF gurus think?
>>
>> -RF neophyte
>>
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ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
| Quote: | Disappearance and searchAs Majority Leader, Boggs often campaigned for others. On October 16, 1972, he was aboard a twin engine Cessna 310 with Representative Nick Begich of Alaska, who was facing a possible tight race in the November 1972 general election against the Republican candidate, Don Young, when it disappeared during a flight from Anchorage to Juneau. The only others on board were Begich’s aide Russell Brown and the pilot, Don Jonz;[5] the four were heading to a campaign fundraiser for Begich. (Begich won the 1972 election posthumously with 56 percent to Young's 44 percent, though Young would win the special election to replace Begich and won every election through and including 2010.)
Coast Guard, Navy, and Air Force planes searched for the party. On November 24, 1972, after thirty-nine days, the search was abandoned. Neither the wreckage of the plane nor the pilot's and passengers' remains were ever found. The accident prompted Congress to pass a law mandating Emergency Locator Transmitters in all U.S. civil aircraft. |
But back to the OP's question. As others have pointed out, it's more likely to physically survive a crash than an externally mounted ELT, but less likely to radiate its signal usefully. Another question is whether the antenna location is even legal. Assuming it is legal, then your choice as to if the internal location gives you the better chance at being found, or if not, if the improvement to an external location is worth the trouble of changing it.
[quote][b]
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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
John & Jeff,
<< I don't believe it would comply with the manufacturer's TSO, >>
Usually the manufacturer's installation instructions address what must be
done to comply with the TSO. For example, the 406 MHz ACK E-04 and the
Airtex 406-4 say the unit must be mounted in a certain orientation to a
structure of a certain strength, have an antenna cable of a maximum loss,
use their supplied antenna mounted to a structure of a certain strength,
etc. It does not mandate where the antenna is located. There are some
recommendations but no TSO requirements. Thus I conclude, unless there is
some very unusual wording in a specific ELT manufacturer's instructions, the
far tailcone installation is legal. Note the multifrequency antennas for
the above ELTs would not mechanically fit in the shown location.
But as I said, a much better place would be under and near the rear edge of
the canopy. It would meet the dual needs of crash survivability and
reasonable satellite visibility.
Tom Kuffel
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Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
Old Bob is right on target.
ELTs are a government-required waste of money. The decision to carry one should be at the choice of the owner/operator. I don't care if mine works or not. I don't plan to depend on it.
As Bob said, "Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy"
Check Six,
Old Stan
In a message dated 4/8/2012 3:03:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:
| Quote: | Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether
or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the
owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
|
[quote][b]
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
Hi Stan,
Nice to know I am not alone!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 4/8/2012 12:00:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Speedy11(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | Old Bob is right on target.
ELTs are a government-required waste of money. The decision to carry one should be at the choice of the owner/operator. I don't care if mine works or not. I don't plan to depend on it.
As Bob said, "Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy"
Check Six,
Old Stan
|
[quote][b]
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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
Old Bob & Stan,
Guess it makes 3 of us.
| Quote: | Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914 w/ Intercooler & Airmaster C/S Prop
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
H: 940-497-2123
C: 817-992-1117 |
On Apr 08, 2012, at 12:18 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Stan,
Nice to know I am not alone!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 4/8/2012 12:00:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Speedy11(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | Old Bob is right on target.
ELTs are a government-required waste of money. The decision to carry one should be at the choice of the owner/operator. I don't care if mine works or not. I don't plan to depend on it.
As Bob said, "Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy"
Check Six,
Old Stan
|
|
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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
C’mon, Old Bob, surely your memory is better than that.
While the 92nd Congress was indeed controlled by the Democrats, most folks wouldn’t refer to Nixon as a liberal, but he did sign the bill mandating ELTs. Of course, he also gave us the 55 MPH speed limit and wage and price controls.
If you really want to avoid the mandate, fly only single seat aircraft.
DO NOT ARCHIVE.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 11:24 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: ELT Antenna Mount
Good Afternoon Dee,
It is obvious that I have not presented the point in a way that you can understand my feelings. It should be a decision we make. NOT a forced solution.
We as, individuals, should be able to choose what method we want to use to maintain contact with the rest of the world.
I can do at least as good a job of providing guidance for recovery of my aircraft as do the air carriers. I might elect to fly IFR at all times or I may just decide that I do not want any help if I should fail to get where I am going.
More likely, I would carry a PLB in areas that would be difficult and nothing at all in flat land Mid America.
Lots of possibilities.
Long before the rules were forced upon us, I made a practice of carrying a portable VHF communication unit (Remember the Bayside?) and keeping a current IFR chart on board that would let me know what frequency would be monitored by aircraft in the area.
My recollection is that IFR flight was NOT mandatory for air carrier aircraft at the time the ELT was foisted upon us. It was the decision of a liberal congress critter that forced the issue. Not the FAA or the aviation industry.
The idea is one of personal choice.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 4/7/2012 1:01:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dee.whittington(at)gmail.com (dee.whittington(at)gmail.com) writes:
| Quote: |
Bob,
As I understand it, the reason commercial airliners don't have ELTs is they are always in contact with ATC and on IFR flight plans. If they crash, there is no question of locating them unlike a GA airplane which can choose to fly VFR with no flight plan and not in touch with ATC.
Dee
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
N3977A
In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net (tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4 wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass plane....
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net (JLuckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Please see attached picture:
Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but to learn…
Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking structure very close to the antenna.
What do you RF gurus think?
-RF neophyte
|
|
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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JohnInReno
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
You guys are not alone. A tracking device like Spot or the HAM radio APRS along with a flight plan filed with friends and family makes a lot more sense.
john
On 4/8/2012 10:18 AM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com) wrote: [quote] Hi Stan,
Nice to know I am not alone!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 4/8/2012 12:00:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com) writes:
| Quote: | Old Bob is right on target.
ELTs are a government-required waste of money. The decision to carry one should be at the choice of the owner/operator. I don't care if mine works or not. I don't plan to depend on it.
As Bob said, "Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy"
Check Six,
Old Stan
|
[b]
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John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
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email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
Do your passengers get a vote?
On Apr 8, 2012, at 12:57, Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] Old Bob is right on target.
ELTs are a government-required waste of money. The decision to carry one should be at the choice of the owner/operator. I don't care if mine works or not. I don't plan to depend on it.
As Bob said, "Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy"
Check Six,
Old Stan
In a message dated 4/8/2012 3:03:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) writes:
| Quote: | Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether
or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the
owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
|
[b]
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deej(at)deej.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
|
|
On 4/8/2012 10:15 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
| Quote: | Do your passengers get a vote?
|
Sure! They can vote not to ride in his experimental aircraft.
-Dj
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