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bobbybraun(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: Phatnoise Connection Success!! |
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Well, I feel that it is safe to announce that I've finally gotten my Phatbox to work with my system. After installing the XA-C30 multi-changer adapter and my CD changer all units function exactly as expected. Again, a ton of thanks goes out to Matt for his support through all this, I never would've gotten this thing working without all the pointers.
I must also point out that it seems as if the PB is not able to be controlled directly from the 4000x alone, and seems to need at least a multi-changer adapter in place and possibly another external unit connected to keep things in check.
All this experimenting has brought another question to mind. Have any of you had any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the C90 and it's CD-Text capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned my C90 that it's scrolling capabilities have rarely worked and I always figured it was because of the software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and not the fault of the hardware. However I also noticed the other day when I first hooked up my PB that the scrolling feature did work, albeit for one song, and since then has gone back to normal, with the text frozen at the maximum viewable characters shown on the on screen display.
Has anyone else had any problems with scrolling text on the C90? If so, have you been able to pinpoint it to any particular issue with program material / equipment being used? I'm very curious at this point since the Phatbox has so much material available and full text scrolling would be very helpful for locating music.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
| Quote: |
At 02:50 PM 4/19/2006 Wednesday, you wrote:
>
>
>Well, it seems as if I maybe spoke too soon. My 4000x stops accepting audio
from the PB as soon as the source is changed (i.e. whenever the Tuner or in dash
CD is selected). As soon as I go back to the PB as a source, it comes up but
analog audio will not be played back again unless a different source is plugged
into the Changer Input of the 4000x. I guess I'm going to have to try
installing my XA-C30 after all, and see if this fixes the problem... And the
frustration quickly returns. Grrr!
Well, that's a bummer... For the record, on my installation I am using the
C30's to switch the Unilink, but I've connected the Phatbox directly up to the
Changer Analog inputs on the 4000x.
While this might not be related to your problem, I found that there is a huge
problem with grounding loops between the PB and the 4000x/C90. I had hard
mounted everything floor pan of my 1998 Chevy truck, and found that the squeal
from the alternator unbearable. Finally, I mounted the PB to my backbone behind
the rear seat (wood) with short screws so that it was isolated from the truck's
chassis and the alternator wine went completely away. FYI.
Also, I found that the PB seems really sensitive to line level cable load
especially when connected to the 4000x. Possibly because the 4000x has 4 volt
line level inputs and the PB doesn't? Don't know about that for sure. In any
case, I used super short (1 meter) top of the line Monster line level cables
between the PB and the 4k and have had good success. There is still a slight
attenuation on the bass from the PB, but its not bad. This is detected by
playing a song from a CD using the Optic output CD Changer into the Optic input
on the 4x vs. playing the same song through the PB to the 4k using the Analog
inputs. There is definitely bass roll off with the PB.
Matt
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
|
Well, I feel that it is safe to announce that I've finally gotten my Phatbox to work with my system. After installing the XA-C30 multi-changer adapter and my CD changer all units function exactly as expected. Again, a ton of thanks goes out to Matt for his support through all this, I never would've gotten this thing working without all the pointers.
I must also point out that it seems as if the PB is not able to be controlled directly from the 4000x alone, and seems to need at least a multi-changer adapter in place and possibly another external unit connected to keep things in check.
All this experimenting has brought another question to mind. Have any of you had any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the C90 and it's CD-Text capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned my C90 that it's scrolling capabilities have rarely worked and I always figured it was because of the software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and not the fault of the hardware. However I also noticed the other day when I first hooked up my PB that the scrolling feature did work, albeitfor one song, and since then has goneback to normal,withthe text frozen at the maximumviewable characters shown on theon screendisplay.
Has anyone else had any problems with scrolling text on the C90?If so, have you been able to pinpoint it to any particular issue with program material / equipment being used? I'm very curious at this point since the Phatbox has so much material available and full text scrolling would be very helpful for locating music.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Matt Dralle dralle(at)matronics.com
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <DRALLE(at)MATRONICS.COM>
At 02:50 PM 4/19/2006 Wednesday, you wrote:
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: bobbybraun(at)comcast.net
Well, it seems as if I maybe spoke too soon. My 4000x stops accepting audio
from the PB as soon as the source is changed (i.e. whenever the Tuner or in dash
CD is selected). As soon as I go back to the PB as a source, it comes up but
analog audio will not be played back again unless a different source is plugged
into the Changer Input of the 4000x. I guess I'm going to have to try
installing my XA-C30 after all, and see if this fixes the problem... And the
frustration quickly returns. Grrr! <B
R>
Well, that's a bummer... For the record, on my installation I am using the
C30's to switch the Unilink, but I've connected the Phatbox directly up to the
Changer Analog inputs on the 4000x.
While this might not be related to your problem, I found that there is a huge
problem with grounding loops between the PB and the 4000x/C90. I had hard
mounted everything floor pan of my 1998 Chevy truck, and found that the squeal
from the alternator unbearable. Finally, I mounted the PB to my backbone behind
the rear seat (wood) with short screws so that it was isolated from the truck's
chassis and the alternator wine went completely away. FYI.
Also, I found that the PB seems really sensitive to line level cable load
especially when connected to the 4000x. Possibly because the 4000x has 4 volt
line level inputs and the PB doesn't? Don't know about that for sure. I
n any
case, I used super short (1 meter) top of the line Monster line level cables
between the PB and the 4k and have had good success. There is still a slight
attenuation on the bass from the PB, but its not bad. This is detected by
playing a song from a CD using the Optic output CD Changer into the Optic input
on the 4x vs. playing the same song through the PB to the 4k using the Analog
inputs. There is definitely bass roll off with the PB.
Matt
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
======
===========================
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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25204
Location: Livermore CA USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: Phatnoise Connection Success!! |
|
|
At 05:50 PM 4/24/2006 Monday, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Well, I feel that it is safe to announce that I've finally gotten my Phatbox to work with my system. After installing the XA-C30 multi-changer adapter and my CD changer all units function exactly as expected. Again, a ton of thanks goes out to Matt for his support through all this, I never would've gotten this thing working without all the pointers.
I must also point out that it seems as if the PB is not able to be controlled directly from the 4000x alone, and seems to need at least a multi-changer adapter in place and possibly another external unit connected to keep things in check.
All this experimenting has brought another question to mind. Have any of you had any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the C90 and it's CD-Text capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned my C90 that it's scrolling capabilities have rarely worked and I always figured it was because of the software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and not the fault of the hardware. However I also noticed the other day when I first hooked up my PB that the scrolling feature did work, albeit for one song, and since then has gone back to normal, with the text frozen at the maximum viewable characters shown on the on screen display.
Has anyone else had any problems with scrolling text on the C90? If so, have you been able to pinpoint it to any particular issue with program material / equipment being used? I'm very curious at this point since the Phatbox has so much material available and full text scrolling would be very helpful for locating music.
|
Great news, Bobby! Glad to hear things are working now. As for your display update issues, this is a know problem. I actually spent a great deal of time debugging this problem and presented Phatnoise with the simple protocol solutions to solve the problem, but to date I have never heard back from any of my three different emails. I have included the emails below along with links to the supporting PDF documents which show detailed Unilink protocol breakdowns of the packets and exactly what the problem is. You should get the latest version of Adobe Acrobat to make sure you get to see all of the annotations. The discussions are pretty technical, but explain the problem well. Too bad Phatnoise didn't spend about 30 minutes making the necessary patches... Might want to write them and ask... I was fairly disappointed that I put that much work into finding the problem only to not hear anything back from them. By the way, the Unilink protocol decodes show below are from a program I wrote that runs on an embedded 8051-based microcontroller. Data and decodes are output via an RS232 port. Plugs into a free Unilink port and emulates either a CD Changer or MD Changer Slave device.
Matt Dralle
================================================================================
MESSAGE 1
| Quote: | Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:22:59 -0700
To: "Mike Woo" <mwoo(at)phatnoise.com>
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Track Display Doesn't Show Complete Data...
Hi Mike,
When in Track display, if I use any of the Disc advance keys such as +-1, +-5, or +-25 the resulting Track data will only be the first two packets of available data which is 6 bytes (first packet) + 7 bytes (second) packet or 13 bytes total. Most of the time, my Track info is much longer than 13 bytes because I use PMM to encode the track number, track name, artist, album, and year all into the track field.
The issue is also present when in Shuffle mode. Pressing the Scroll button also doesn't cause the rest of the data to be displayed. Also, pressing the Display button, or the List button doesn't yield the reset of the Track display.
On the other hand, if the track is selected using the >>| button on the remote (next track/previous track), or the song is just naturally selected in sequence order, then the full Track data is available for display, although the Scroll button must be pressed to get the display to scroll through the rest of the data.
It seems that the problem is related to the lack of NULL termination and also the non-response to the Display's request for additional Parts of the Track data. The solution is to simply transmit all of the packets required to send the complete Track, and to NULL terminate the string. There also appears to be an issue with a lack of response to Display requests for additional Track Parts.
It appears that the Disc information also is not being NULL terminated.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/Phatbox%20-%20Track%20Display%20-%20+25%20Button%20Pressed.pdf
Matt Dralle
|
================================================================================
MESSAGE 2
| Quote: | Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:35:49 -0700
To: "Mike Woo" <mwoo(at)phatnoise.com>
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Phatbox Disc Display Update Issue - Solution...
Hi Mike,
I've solved the issue with the Disc information not updating correctly if the Disc number doesn't change. This can occur, for example, when the Shuffle mode is on. Since I almost exclusively use the shuffle mode, a lot of the time I have bogus disc information on the display since there's a 1 in 10 chance the disc number won't change (but actual disc will).
In any case, I've included two packet dumps in PDF illustrating what is going on and how to fix it. The PDFs should have a bunch of mark ups on the with arrows and text boxes, etc. If not, go get the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader.
In a nutshell, the High NIB of D2_5 has Disc number in DEC. Setting it to 0xFx in a 0xC0 Status command will Blank the Disc display, but is also considered a "different" disc. Follow immediately with another 0xC0 Status with the correct Disc number. The Disc number field on the Display will flash, but looks like its suppose to. Follow the second 0xC0 Status with the usual Disc/Track/Artist information.
I have also identified an issue with the way the Phatbox is doing Track display, but will send that in a separate email.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/Phatbox%20-%20Disc%20Display%20-%20Disc%2010%20Track%201%20-%20Display%20Shows%20819-Mary%20Black%20BUT%20SHOULD%20SHOW%20950-Quarterflash1.pdf
http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/How%20to%20Force%20Disc%20Display%20Updates%20on%20Disc%20Change1.pdf
Matt Dralle
|
================================================================================
MESSAGE 3
| Quote: | Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:03:41 -0700
To: "Mike Woo" <mwoo(at)phatnoise.com>
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Disc and Track Listing Function...
Hi Mike,
There had been some discussion over the Disc and Track List function back a while ago and I had noticed that Track Listing function specifically wasn't working. I've decoded all of the Disc and Track Listing packets and necessary sequences and included them in two notated PDF files included. It doesn't look like the Phatbox has implemented Disc or Track Listing, although the Disc listing is somewhat available because the C90 will use non-disc-listing packets (0xC6/0xD6/0xCD) to update the Disc Listing Display in a pinch. It would be very sweet to have Track Listing information available from the Phatbox.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/C90%20and%20CDX-848X%20Disc%20Listing.pdf
http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/C90%20and%20CDX-848X%20Track%20Listing.pdf
Matt Dralle
|
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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mdx400(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Phatnoise Connection Success!! |
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|
| Quote: |
Have any of you had any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the
|
C90 and it's CD-Text capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned
my C90 that it's scrolling capabilities have rarely worked and I always
figured it was because of the software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and
not the fault of the hardware. However I also noticed the other day when I
first hooked up my PB that the scrolling feature did work, albeit for one
song, and since then has gone back to normal, with the text frozen at the
maximum viewable characters shown on the on screen display.
Hmm, while Matt has pointed out some very specific details about the Phatbox
scrolling problems, I'm curious as to what problems you're encountering with
CD-Text encoded CDs which should work fine.
Keep in mind you have to have the A.Scrl feature enabled on the HU (I'm sure
you do) and then the C90's normal behavoiur is this:
Track titles scroll once whenever the track changes, automatically. After
scrolling once, the scrolling stops. Why Sony didn't do continuous
scrolling is a mystery but that's the way it is on Sony mobile gear. This
is the same for CD-Text changers as well as a CD-Text disc in the HU's CD
drive. With a changer you can also use the LIST up feature to see CD-Text
disc titles from a changer, BUT they will never scroll using the LIST
feature. Furthermore assigning a CustomFile disc title eliminates the
CD-Text disc title (not on the disc of course, just in the UniLink system).
The reason you would want to assign a CustomFile title, however, is because
without doing that you cannot assign disc-specific sound customisations (DSP
File).
CD-Text titles will also scroll if you cycle through the DISP modes and land
back at a scrollable text title. Additionally you can scroll by activating
scroll in the menu (not sure how this works on the C90) or on newer units by
using the dedicated/discrete "SCROLL" button located on the HU or remote.
Usually CD-Text problems on CD-Rs, caused by the disc being improperly
burned somehow, will result in no text being read at all and not scrolling
problems. I.e. if the text on a particular CD works, the scrolling should
be unaffected.
Roland M.
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bobbybraun(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: Phatnoise Connection Success!! |
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I currently have no scrolling on any source, in dash CD, Changer, or Phatbox. Auto Scroll is set to on, and when pressing the 'scrl' button on the remote all I get is a beep with no response. When I hooked up the PB for the first time scrolling actually worked a few times, but now it's back to normal. This was the first time since I can remember that scrolling has functioned on my deck, so the addition of the PB is not the problem. I burn all my cd's I listen to in my car, and in doing so I add CD text to them during the process. The text always functions properly as far as the information that can be seen without scrolling, but I get nothing more. I've just gotten used to it being this way, but I wonder what the problem is? I have tried factory pressed cd's that are CD Text encoded as well, and they function the same way, so I guess that mostly rules out problems during the burning process. Maybe a bad master uni-link cable? Maybe I should try the scrolling feature
with m
y processor and all it's accessories unplugged to see what happens?
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Roland M" <mdx400(at)hotmail.com>
| Quote: |
>
>
Have any of you had any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the
C90 and it's CD-Text capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned
my C90 that it's scrolling capabilities have rarely worked and I always
figured it was because of the software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and
not the fault of the hardware. However I also noticed the other day when I
first hooked up my PB that the scrolling feature did work, albeit for one
song, and since then has gone back to normal, with the text frozen at the
maximum viewable characters shown on the on screen display.
>
Hmm, while Matt has pointed out some very specific details about the Phatbox
scrolling problems, I'm curious as to what problems you're encountering with
CD-Text encoded CDs which should work fine.
Keep in mind you have to have the A.Scrl feature enabled on the HU (I'm sure
you do) and then the C90's normal behavoiur is this:
Track titles scroll once whenever the track changes, automatically. After
scrolling once, the scrolling stops. Why Sony didn't do continuous
scrolling is a mystery but that's the way it is on Sony mobile gear. This
is the same for CD-Text changers as well as a CD-Text disc in the HU's CD
drive. With a changer you can also use the LIST up feature to see CD-Text
disc titles from a changer, BUT they will never scroll using the LIST
feature. Furthermore assigning a CustomFile disc title eliminates the
CD-Text disc title (not on the disc of course, just in the UniLink system).
The reason you would want to assign a CustomFile title, however, is because
without doing that you cannot assign disc-specific sound customisations (DSP
File).
CD-Text titles will also scroll if you cycle through the DISP modes and land
back at a scrollable text title. Additionally you can scroll by activating
scroll in the menu (not sure how this works on the C90) or on newer units by
using the dedicated/discrete "SCROLL" button located on the HU or remote.
Usually CD-Text problems on CD-Rs, caused by the disc being improperly
burned somehow, will result in no text being read at all and not scrolling
problems. I.e. if the text on a particular CD works, the scrolling should
be unaffected.
Roland M.
<html><body>
|
<DIV>I currently have no scrolling on any source, in dash CD, Changer, or Phatbox. Auto Scroll is set to on, and when pressing the 'scrl' button on the remote all I get is a beep with no response. When I hooked up the PB for the first time scrolling actually worked a few times, but now it's back to normal. This was the first time since I can remember that scrolling has functioned on my deck, so the addition of the PB is not the problem. I burn all my cd's I listen to in my car, and in doing so I add CD text to them during the process. The text always functions properly as far as the information that can be seen without scrolling, but I get nothing more. I've just gotten used to it being this way, but I wonder what the problem is? I have tried factory pressed cd's that are CD Text encoded as well, and they function the same way, so I guess that mostly rules out problems during the burning process. Ma
ybe a
bad master uni-link cable? Maybe I should try the scrolling feature with my processor and all it's accessories unplugged to see what happens?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Roland M" <mdx400(at)hotmail.com> <BR><BR>> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: "Roland M" <MDX400(at)HOTMAIL.COM><BR>> <BR>> >--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: bobbybraun(at)comcast.net <BR>> > <BR>> Have any of you had any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the <BR>> C90 and it's CD-Text capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned <BR>> my C90 that it's scrolling capabilities have rarely worked and I always <BR>> figured it was because of the software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and <BR>> not the fault of the hardware. However I also noticed the other day when I <BR>> first hooked up my PB that the scrolling feature did work, albeit for one <BR>> song, and since then has gone back to normal, with the text frozen at the <BR>> maximum viewable characters sho
wn on
the on screen display. <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> Hmm, while Matt has pointed out some very specific details about the Phatbox <BR>> scrolling problems, I'm curious as to what problems you're encountering with <BR>> CD-Text encoded CDs which should work fine. <BR>> <BR>> Keep in mind you have to have the A.Scrl feature enabled on the HU (I'm sure <BR>> you do) and then the C90's normal behavoiur is this: <BR>> <BR>> Track titles scroll once whenever the track changes, automatically. After <BR>> scrolling once, the scrolling stops. Why Sony didn't do continuous <BR>> scrolling is a mystery but that's the way it is on Sony mobile gear. This <BR>> is the same for CD-Text changers as well as a CD-Text disc in the HU's CD <BR>> drive. With a changer you can also use the LIST up feature to see CD-Text <BR>> disc titles from a changer, BUT they will never scroll using the LIST <BR>> feature. Furthermore assigning a CustomFile disc title el
iminat
======
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