Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

nose gear

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

mark.j(at)yakuk.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: nose gear



Brian said.

++++++++++++

Is the nose gear strong enough

to flip the aircraft without failing in the process? I suspect not. But

I don't know. Maybe you are right.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

The nose gear on the Yak 52 is strong enough to flip the a/c on soft ground. We have seen this. I dont think the crome section was bent even on one occasion. But I have seen the crome section bent, maybe if fully extended with to higher pressure?

 

Its also strong enough to push the nose wheel 6" into soft ground and not suffer any damage and nearly flip as happened on a soft runway with myself once.

 

so, its gear up on any field other than mid summer (dry/ hard) and no crops/ scrub in my opinion. Or if your over water 18ft / sec vertical is better than 65 kts horizontal.

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: nose gear



Brian,

For the engine failure EP here is what the Russians have to say:

The JAK 52 School and Aircraft Training Manual -translated version states on page 90;

5.1.1 If engine stops in climbing, before the first turn:

- the pilot performs gliding;

-retracts the landing gear;

-shuts up the fire cock;

-switches out the magneto, the storage battery and the ignition;

-opens the canopy.

The landing is performed straight ahead. If it's obviously that the straight landing endangers the pilot's life (the airplane might collide with the obstacles), then  the pilot must change the landing direction.

5.1.2 If the engine stops in circuit flight after the first turn, and/or during the acrobatic manoeuvres in the zone, the pilot must act according to the specific aerodrome instructions and to the instructions of the paragraph 5.17.

5.1.3. If the engine stops during the inverted flight:

-the pilot performs a half-rolling and brings the airplane back in normal flight;

-he sets the gliding speed at 170-180 kph;

-brings the throttle at one third approximtively from its total stroke;

- rotates the inection pump handle 45 degress to the left and supplies fuel until the fuel pressure is 0.1-0.2 kgf/cm2;

NOTE: It is advisable to inject fuel in the engine cylinders to ease the engine start.

5.1.4. As soon as the engine starts again, the pilot brings the throttle in the takeoff position for 1-2 sec., then sets the required flight condiion.

WARNING!  At the transition from inverted flight with the engine stopped to normal flight with the start of the engine the airplane loses  in height about 300-350 m.

5.17 Landing Paticularities of the airplane with the engine damaged. (page 102)

5.17.1. In case of the engine failure the pilot must perform the landing on the home-aerodrome or on a chosen ground.

When the pilot must perform a forced landing on an unknown or non uniform ground, the landing is performed with the landing gear retracted.

5.17.2. The aviaiable length for gliding in case of the engine malfunction depends on the aerodinamic features fo the airplane and on the height limitation. It is advisable to perform the gliding flight with the landing gear and the wing flaps retracted, at an 160km/h airspeed: in this case, the coeffiecient for the aerodinamic quality and the rated length of gliding are, as follows:

k= 7 and L=7 x H

L - the rated lenght for gliding;

H -  the height of flight ( in meters)

7 - the aerodinamic quality.

For the reckoning to the available gliding distance and for the estimation for chances to land on the aerodrome, the pilot must take into account the shortening of distance, due to the performance of turn and to the performance of the pre-landing manoeuvers. When performing a 180 degree turn with airplane banked at 45 degress, the distance will be shorter with 1 km approximatively.

To ensure the height of 400 m, which ensures the peromance of the manoeuvre before landing the pilot must shorten the rated gliding distance with 3 km.

So, the avialable distance for glide, accounting fot the turn towards the aerodrome and the ensuring of the needed spare height above the aerodrome, is about:

for H = 2000 m 10 km

for H = 3000 m 17 km

for H = 4000 m 24 km

The turns are performed with the airplane banked at 45 degree, which ensures the smaller loss of the height.

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

erniel29(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: nose gear



I only have one thing to add to this thread.

Jimmy Rossi, a neighbor of mine and well respected aerobatic pilot and

air show pilot in his F-86 was killed several years ago when he

decided to land his airplane rather than use his working and recently

inspected hot seats in the Saber, when the engine fragged.

He had just departed from Puerto Rico after refueling from an airshow

somewhere in the Carribean. He opted to land in an overgrown field,

which unbeknowst to him was a junkyard full of vehicles. He was on

fire, no power and made the field. He impacted the hidden obstacles

and was thrown from the aircraft and was killed.

He had the option to eject over water where there was at no risk to

any population at about 5000 ft (est, I dont remember the specifics).

If he had ejected there was a good chance he would have survived, if

he would have ditched in the ocean, there was a lesser chance of

survival, but still a chance.

I had heard from people that in a conversation with his Mig-15 show

partner he always said he would rather land the plane than eject,

while his partner maintained that he would bail out.

Ejection is dangerous business, so is dead stick landing a jet. Had he

lived, would he have been right or wrong? Its anybody's guess.

Flying is inherently dangerous, hopefully most of us learn from these

experiences and try to apply them to our day to day flying. Its real

easy to Saturday morning quaterback, after the fact.

Ernie

On 1/8/06, Roger Kemp <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Brian,

For the engine failure EP here is what the Russians have to say:

The JAK 52 School and Aircraft Training Manual -translated version states on

page 90;

5.1.1 If engine stops in climbing, before the first turn:

- the pilot performs gliding;

-retracts the landing gear;

-shuts up the fire cock;

-switches out the magneto, the storage battery and the ignition;

-opens the canopy.

The landing is performed straight ahead. If it's obviously that the straight

landing endangers the pilot's life (the airplane might collide with the

obstacles), then the pilot must change the landing direction.

5.1.2 If the engine stops in circuit flight after the first turn, and/or

during the acrobatic manoeuvres in the zone, the pilot must act according to

the specific aerodrome instructions and to the instructions of the paragraph

5.17.

5.1.3. If the engine stops during the inverted flight:

-the pilot performs a half-rolling and brings the airplane back in normal

flight;

-he sets the gliding speed at 170-180 kph;

-brings the throttle at one third approximtively from its total stroke;

- rotates the inection pump handle 45 degress to the left and supplies fuel

until the fuel pressure is 0.1-0.2 kgf/cm2;

NOTE: It is advisable to inject fuel in the engine cylinders to ease the

engine start.

5.1.4. As soon as the engine starts again, the pilot brings the throttle in

the takeoff position for 1-2 sec., then sets the required flight condiion.

WARNING! At the transition from inverted flight with the engine stopped to

normal flight with the start of the engine the airplane loses in height

about 300-350 m.

5.17 Landing Paticularities of the airplane with the engine damaged. (page

102)

5.17.1. In case of the engine failure the pilot must perform the landing on

the home-aerodrome or on a chosen ground.

When the pilot must perform a forced landing on an unknown or non uniform

ground, the landing is performed with the landing gear retracted.

5.17.2. The aviaiable length for gliding in case of the engine malfunction

depends on the aerodinamic features fo the airplane and on the height

limitation. It is advisable to perform the gliding flight with the landing

gear and the wing flaps retracted, at an 160km/h airspeed: in this case, the

coeffiecient for the aerodinamic quality and the rated length of gliding

are, as follows:

k= 7 and L=7 x H

L - the rated lenght for gliding;

H - the height of flight ( in meters)

7 - the aerodinamic quality.

For the reckoning to the available gliding distance and for the estimation

for chances to land on the aerodrome, the pilot must take into account the

shortening of distance, due to the performance of turn and to the

performance of the pre-landing manoeuvers. When performing a 180 degree turn

with airplane banked at 45 degress, the distance will be shorter with 1 km

approximatively.

To ensure the height of 400 m, which ensures the peromance of the manoeuvre

before landing the pilot must shorten the rated gliding distance with 3 km.

So, the avialable distance for glide, accounting fot the turn towards the

aerodrome and the ensuring of the needed spare height above the aerodrome,

is about:

for H = 2000 m 10 km

for H = 3000 m 17 km

for H = 4000 m 24 km

The turns are performed with the airplane banked at 45 degree, which ensures

the smaller loss of the height.

In this case the turn radius is 200m, the vertical descent is 8 m/s and loss

of height is 220 m for a 360 degree turn.

In the landing gear and the wing flaps extended configuration, the

aerodinamical quality is 5.5.

In the case of approach flight in headwind conditions, the available

distance for glide decreases: so, when the wind velocity is 5 m/s, the

gliding distance will decrease 10%.

So, all the above stated is what the Russians teach their DOSAF students

learning to fly the JAK 52. I have no idea what the Chinese teach their

students for off field landings. I suspect it is not much different.

The military and proffessional aircarriers strongly reccommned adherence to

the check list and the "DASH -1" to guarantee uniformity in the management

of an emergency. Also it will most likely save your life.

As an aviator flying complex aircraft, I use the checklist as an aid to jog

my memory when needed. It has and will help me not make mistakes that could

save my life and that of others.

Just because "all's well that ends well" is OK does not mean it was

necessarily the correct thing to do. We sometimes get so involved in saving

our precious aircraft that we do something incorrect. A freind was so

concerned with saving his aircraft after landing hot. He had an engine that

was running but with increased cylinder head temp. That being the cause of

his declared EP 20 mi out from the airfield. He was apparently so concerned

with landing hot half way down the runway knowing he was going to go into

the 500 ft overrun (which another 500 feet beyond) to stop in, he tired to

take off again. He forgot to retract his flaps on his A36. He impacted the

trees at 30 ft up killing himself, his brother, sister - in - law and his

girlfriend. He did not remember that the A 36 does not climb well with full

flaps. Clearly stated in the checklist for balked landings. In his case

there was a POH in the aircraft, but no checklist in easy reach. Kno wing

the checklist and operating systems cold or as best as possible could have

saved his and his passengers lives.

On of the things the AF does with our UPT students is teach them the

aircraft systems and make them regurgitate them. They do an EP of the day

each and every morning of their training. We continue that over into the

flying squadrons. Each morning's Mass brief begins with an EP of the day.

Blow it, you either stand down for that sortie if the mistake was bad enough

or suffer the ribbing of your squadron mates, generally in good nature. All

is intended for you to learn from the mistake and not make it again.

Flying safety meetings are held quarterly to point out the good and the bad

things that happened that could or did affect the squadron,s safe

performance of its mission. If it means looking at an incident or accident

in detail, it happens. If you made the mistake, it gets discussed. If you

did good, it is there for all to see, hear, and learn from. You have to have

a thick skin sometimes. Medicine is that way too. Being on both sides of the

fence as professions go.

So all this said, I will continue chose to do what has been ingrained from

the last 28 years of military avaiation, follow the checklist. It saved

someone else's ass at one time and hopefully it will save mine when it comes

to it. It has already a number of times. I will continue to look at aircraft

incidents and accidents to look both the right and wrong things done in that

situation. That is what I have been trained to do as a member of the flight

safety team in the AF/ANG.

Doc

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -
 
Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: nose gear



Roger Kemp wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Brian,

For the engine failure EP here is what the Russians have to say:

	


(whole lot of non-applicable verbiage deleted)

 	  Quote: 	
		   5.17 Landing Paticularities of the airplane with the engine damaged.

(page 102)

5.17.1. In case of the engine failure the pilot must perform the landing

on the home-aerodrome or on a chosen ground.

When the pilot must perform a forced landing on an unknown or non

uniform ground, the landing is performed with the landing gear retracted.

	


That is fine. The gentleman in question was flying a CJ6A. The commonly

used checklist for the CJ6A states: landing gear -- as appropriate. It

doesn't say: landing gear -- retract. From what was written I might have

left the gear down too. Seems from the result that it was the right

choice. That was my whole point.

 	  Quote: 	
		   So, all the above stated is what the Russians teach their DOSAF students

learning to fly the JAK 52. I have no idea what the Chinese teach their

students for off field landings. I suspect it is not much different.

	


Well, I sent you the check list.

I agree in general with what you said about checklists. And every time

there is an accident, the check lists seem to get changed. Seems to me

that some thought on the part of the pilot might also be useful. An

inflexible checklist will never replace a thinking pilot.

FWIW I had a good time flying with Mike Bell in his beautiful Yak-52

today. It certainly beat blathering about whether the guy with the

forced landing did the right thing or not. I love the Yak-52's

responsiveness. The Yak-52 and CJ6A really are great airplanes.

--

Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.

brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: nose gear



 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]> FWIW I had a good time flying with Mike Bell in his

beautiful Yak-52 	


 	  Quote: 	
		   today. It certainly beat blathering about whether the guy with the

forced landing did the right thing or not. I love the Yak-52's

responsiveness. The Yak-52 and CJ6A really are great airplanes.

Brian Lloyd

	


Brian,

I had a great sortie with my son today also. We flew 1.6 hr. He is home

from UPT for Xmas leave.

I agree, both aircraft are a blast to fly.The CJ's pit is roomer than the

52 and it's roll rate is slower than the 52 (or so it seemed to me). You

climb in a CJ and strap on a 52. Can only imagine what it would be like to

fly the 50. With it being 900 lbs less than the 52 and around 4000 fpm

climb. Intially out performs the P-51...hummm... so much for off field

landings...with that kind of performance.

Doc

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum