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Marketing research question
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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:18 am    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

At 09:52 PM 3/9/2006 -0600, you wrote:

[quote]
<armywrights(at)adelphia.net>

Emplace a "push-to-test" spring-loaded button next to the annunciator panel
that illuminates the chicklets. Then you can verify not just when the
master initially comes on, but also any time on ground or in flight to
verify function.

Rob

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BigD(at)DaveMorris.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

I would add:

Carb ice
Transmitting

I presume "Aux Volts Lo" is actually "E-Bus Low", so why not identify it
that way?

I would like to see the lamps triggerable on either:
Above a threshold (trimpot settable)
Below a threshold (trimpot settable)

Here's an example of how to fill up 24 slots:
http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel.gif

I'll buy one if it's reasonably priced.

Dave Morris
At 08:20 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote:
Quote:

<nuckollsr(at)cox.net>

I've got a couple of guys scratching on napkins at Connie's
El Mexico cafe over ways to do an annunciator system.
They're considering system sizing and trying to deduce
whether to craft a 9 or 12 slot annunciator panel. It seems that
the largest segment of the OBAM aircraft community would have
trouble filling up a 9-slot annunciator panel.

A 9-slot panel is looking like 4.2 x 1.6 inches. A 12-slot
would be 5.3 x 1.6 inches. We're considering processes for
both fabrication and software that would make the product
highly customizable. I.e. you decide whether incoming signals
are analog, pull up to bus, pull down to ground, what
the legends say, and colors of the legends. Of course this
is a 'dead front' design . . . legends essentially disappear
when not illuminated.

Just for grins, I'll toss the question out to the list.
From of the list items below, what additional or alternative
points of interest might be important enough to light a light
and/or blow in your ear?

Main Volts Lo
Aux Volts Lo
Left Fuel Lo
Right Fuel Lo
Oil Pres Lo
Canopy Latch
OAT Warn
Pitot Heat


Bob . . .
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >




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brinker(at)cox-internet.c
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

Definately need the nukes armed annunciator I hate to land with them
in the armed position. Especially after getting bad carb ice and a forced
landing Smile

Randy

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

At 02:45 PM 3/10/2006 -0600, you wrote:

Quote:

<BigD(at)DaveMorris.com>

I would add:

Carb ice
Transmitting

I presume "Aux Volts Lo" is actually "E-Bus Low", so why not identify it
that way?

Because it's Aux Volts Low. When the e-bus is being used
in it's backup function, it's always low volts . . . battery
only.

Aux volts is used to watch an aux battery bus to make sure
that the aux battery contactor has is closed and/or
has not failed.

Quote:
I would like to see the lamps triggerable on either:
Above a threshold (trimpot settable)
Below a threshold (trimpot settable)

The exciting talk right now is to make various functions
user programmable via graphical user interface running
out of a PC.
Quote:
Here's an example of how to fill up 24 slots:
http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel.gif

I'll buy one if it's reasonably priced.

What's a reasonable price?

Bob . . .


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BigD(at)DaveMorris.com
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

I still think Carb Ice is more important than OAT. I have a carb temp
sensor in the throat of my MS carb and it would be a simple matter to read
it out on the annunciator. A carb can ice up in 80 degree OAT weather.

User programmable via PC, yeah, OK, I suppose. Nowadays it's probably
cheaper that way than to install a bunch of trimpots. But if the PC
interface adds cost, I would go the other way.

I would prefer to see user-defined legends on the lights, as opposed to
having a bunch of excess unused lights that mean nothing in my
non-retractable, single fuel tank, fixed pitch prop aircraft.

Angle-of-Attack sensors are also becoming the rage. You could make another
simple interface to the annunciator panel for high AOA.

PM dynamos have an output line for an idiot light. Why not use that to
feed the annunciator to give a warning indication of dynamo failure
independent of any other bus voltage sensing.

All "nukes armed" kidding aside, my requirements would be for a panel that
had these lights: http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel2005.jpg
I had already ordered one of these from a company that produced my switch
panels, and their price was $95. However, they seem to have gone out of
business within the last couple of months, so my "reasonable" price would
probably top out at $300 to $500 depending on how well the panel was
adaptable to my needs.
Dave Morris
At 08:48 PM 3/10/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
>
>I would add:
>
>Carb ice
>Transmitting
>
>I presume "Aux Volts Lo" is actually "E-Bus Low", so why not identify it
>that way?

Because it's Aux Volts Low. When the e-bus is being used
in it's backup function, it's always low volts . . . battery
only.

Aux volts is used to watch an aux battery bus to make sure
that the aux battery contactor has is closed and/or
has not failed.

>I would like to see the lamps triggerable on either:
>Above a threshold (trimpot settable)
>Below a threshold (trimpot settable)

The exciting talk right now is to make various functions
user programmable via graphical user interface running
out of a PC.
>Here's an example of how to fill up 24 slots:
>http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel.gif
>
>I'll buy one if it's reasonably priced.

What's a reasonable price?

Bob . . .




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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

At 10:01 AM 3/11/2006 -0600, you wrote:

Quote:

<BigD(at)DaveMorris.com>

I still think Carb Ice is more important than OAT. I have a carb temp
sensor in the throat of my MS carb and it would be a simple matter to read
it out on the annunciator. A carb can ice up in 80 degree OAT weather.

You can weigh in by prioritizing and forwarding you own list . . .

Quote:
User programmable via PC, yeah, OK, I suppose. Nowadays it's probably
cheaper that way than to install a bunch of trimpots. But if the PC
interface adds cost, I would go the other way.

External GUI on a PC is always the lowest cost end product. The
External software is no mean task either but as far as keeping
size, weight, parts count and price down in the end product,
external programmability is the way to do.

Quote:
I would prefer to see user-defined legends on the lights, as opposed to
having a bunch of excess unused lights that mean nothing in my
non-retractable, single fuel tank, fixed pitch prop aircraft.

It's been suggested that the survey is more a promotional tool
than a design study. If we were considering a fully programmable
LCD screen device with infinite options, I would agree. The
topic came up at lunch to see what a minimum cost product with
a fixed set of monitored parameters might look like. Of course,
ANY combination could be offered as a customized product . . .
but folks who can afford my exorbitant consulting fees would probably
go get some super-whizzy off-the-shelf product.

I don't know that this product will ever come into being in
our shop. This is a what-if-how-when-and-why discussion that makes
a whole lot more sense if a potential consumer based participates
than if we sat around and an hypothesized as to what's wanted/needed.

And as I said, I'll publish the results of the survey here.
Any entrepreneur who wants to capitalize on the conversation
and subsequent data are welcome to jump in.
Quote:
Angle-of-Attack sensors are also becoming the rage. You could make another
simple interface to the annunciator panel for high AOA.

I'm not aware of any stand-alone-sensors that us po' folk could
afford . . . and don't most turn-key systems offer built in
alarm functions?
Quote:
PM dynamos have an output line for an idiot light. Why not use that to
feed the annunciator to give a warning indication of dynamo failure
independent of any other bus voltage sensing.

repeat after me . . . ACTIVE NOTIFICATION OF LOW VOLTAGE AT THE
BUS IS THE SIMPLE-IDEA DEFINITION OF AN INACTIVE POWER GENERATION
SYSTEM.

The problem with the plethora of 'warning' functions built into
the various products, I have neither the access or the time to
invest in vetting each of those features as to functionality,
reliability, etc. A pre-flight testable, active notification system
that's independent of the power generation system or it's accessories
works all the time, every time with any combination of system hardware.
Quote:
All "nukes armed" kidding aside, my requirements would be for a panel that
had these lights: http://www.myglasscockpit.com/AnnunciatorPanel2005.jpg
I had already ordered one of these from a company that produced my switch
panels, and their price was $95. However, they seem to have gone out of
business within the last couple of months, so my "reasonable" price would
probably top out at $300 to $500 depending on how well the panel was
adaptable to my needs.

I'm guessing of course but at $95 each, they'd have to sell a boat-load
of those so as to make up for the losses in volume . . .

If you'd care to convert the .jpg data into a prioritized listing, I'd
be pleased to include your preferences in the calculation of market
survey data.

Bob . . .


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brian



Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

Dave Morris "BigD" wrote:
Quote:


I still think Carb Ice is more important than OAT. I have a carb temp
sensor in the throat of my MS carb and it would be a simple matter to read
it out on the annunciator. A carb can ice up in 80 degree OAT weather.

And the carb can reach an OAT of 0C just downstream of the throat
without producing ice. If the temp has not reached the dew-point for the
air passing through, you won't get ice as the moisture will not come out
of the air.

This is why temperature, either carb or OAT, is not particularly useful
for determining icing conditions. Certainly you cannot have ice when the
temps are above 0C but you are not going to have ice below 0C if there
is no visible moisture. And carb ice will form only if you have visible
moisture *after* the temp drop in the throat of the carb.

As I said in a previous post, a temp-only warning is just flat out
annoying as it says "wolf" a lot more often that it every gives you
useful information. I eventually disabled my carb air temp warning and
my OAT warning as they proved to be pretty useless.

Quote:
Angle-of-Attack sensors are also becoming the rage. You could make another
simple interface to the annunciator panel for high AOA.

The problem with annunciator panels is they are not part of the normal
scan, especially in VFR operations. I suspect that most people with AoA
indicators are going to put the AoA display in their primary scan even
when they are 'heads-up' (looking outside). Then the annunciator is not
in view and an AoA alert would cause them to look inside.

--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery


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Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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rtitsworth



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Posts: 76
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

What triggers the "Nukes Armed" indicator???

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armywrights(at)adelphia.n
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject: Marketing research question Reply with quote

A post from gmcjetpilot on IR Alternators...

Rob

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