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Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

 
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heisan



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.

I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no actual performance specifications.

Has anybody used this combination? Does it still make the 140mph cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?

I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' and above, so it may be a little underpowered?

Thanks,
Justin


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larry(at)macsmachine.com
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

Hi Justin,
If you build the HDS per plans, you'd be very disappointed with the
2200A for that altitude. You'd be better going with
a Corvair or a Stratus or the most recent 90 h p flat four Suzuki from
Raven re-drives at. http://www.raven-rotor.com/

The 2200A direct drive depends upon a smaller prop and higher rpms. If
recently, someone were offering the engine
with a re-drive, perhaps it would fly, but you'd be concerned about
overheating, etc trying to pull the heavier thickness wings
etc.

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

heisan wrote:
Quote:


I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.

I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no actual performance specifications.

Has anybody used this combination? Does it still make the 140mph cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?

I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' and above, so it may be a little underpowered?

Thanks,
Justin


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183866#183866




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leo(at)zuehlfield.com
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

My HDS with a 912 UL cruses at 125 MPH (no wheel pants).

6,000' and above might be a strain, I do not know. Hope someone else
can comment.

--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
Rotax 912UL
heisan wrote:
Quote:


I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.

I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no actual performance specifications.

Has anybody used this combination? Does it still make the 140mph cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?

I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' and above, so it may be a little underpowered?

Thanks,
Justin




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psm(at)att.net
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

Hi Justin,

I have heard several builders proclaim the great performance the HDS
gives with a Jabiru 3300 engine. This engine has 50% more power (and
cylinders) than the 2200. I can only conclude the 2200 is a bit
small for this airplane and the 3300 would be a better choice.

I know it is not politically correct these days to recommend the
Zodiac XL, but it has many improvements over the HDS including a
larger wing and longer fuselage. The wing might be a big help to you
with your high altitude starting point, and the longer fuselage
should provide a better ride - especially in pitch stability. I know
there have been problems, but by the time you might finish one they
will probably be figured out.

Good luck,

Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive

At 12:24 PM 5/19/2008, you wrote:
Quote:
I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.

I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no
actual performance specifications.

Has anybody used this combination? Does it still make the 140mph
cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?

I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000'
and above, so it may be a little underpowered?

Thanks,
Justin


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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:26 am    Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

Hello Paul,

I think is not incorrect to advise the 601 XL.

Last night I was thinking... The XL has near 10 years (I Dont know when was first available), all of this past years without any structural problem, the prototype is still flying daily as a demo plane, lots of them flying all over the world, in fact there was one in youtube performing loops, not adsvised of course.
The accident events are all in a (relative) short time , so I feel (no guessing here .-) that the problem, what ever is, can be traced and isolated and then we all can continue to build and fly it with the same confidence as before... I know the scar of the damage will be there all the life of the plane...
Dont need to be answered though the list please, just every one of us think about it for ourselfs, to not beguin another useless discusion.
Maybe off line if you need to comment to me something

Saludos
Gary Gower.
Building a 601 XL Kit.
Fuselage almost ready, empenage ready, will beguin with the wings soon.
Do not archive.


Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:
[quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz

Hi Justin,

I have heard several builders proclaim the great performance the HDS
gives with a Jabiru 3300 engine. This engine has 50% more power (and
cylinders) than the 2200. I can only conclude the 2200 is a bit
small for this airplane and the 3300 would be a better choice.

I know it is not politically correct these days to recommend the
Zodiac XL, but it has many improvements over the HDS including a
larger wing and longer fuselage. The wing might be a big help to you
with your high altitude starting point, and the longer fuselage
should provide a better ride - especially in pitch stability. I know
there have been problems, but by the time you might finish one they
will probably be figured out.

Good luck,

Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive

At 12:24 PM 5/19/2008, you wrote:
[quote]I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.

I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no
actual performance specifications.

Has anybody used this combination? Does it still make the 140mph
cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?

I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000'
and above, so it may be a little [quote][b]


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heisan



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Re: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

So it seems no one has actually tried it... I was hoping it would work, because I have an opportunity to get a 2200 engine at a good price. I know they work OK in an HD model, and I was hoping the lower drag of the HDS model would make it a more practical engine option.

Oh well - have to hunt for another good value engine.

Wink

Justin


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Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

It's not that they won't work in the HDS but since you said you were based at 6K feet you need the additional power.
heisan wrote:
So it seems no one has actually tried it... I was hoping it would work, because I have an opportunity to get a 2200 engine at a good price. I know they work OK in an HD model, and I was hoping the lower drag of the HDS model would make it a more practical engine option.

Oh well - have to hunt for another good value engine.

Wink

Justin


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_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:59 am    Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

Justin,
I'd like to chime in again. I failed to make the point that the HD has
considerably more lift than the HDS. Though the HDS has a higher speed,
the HDS climb cannot begin to keep up with the HD. At your altitude,
I'd think you'd be much better off going with the HD. With the HDS
you'd need
to either reduce payload or decrease your pitch to climb and this will
negate the higher speed you see in the HDS. If I lived at 6000 ft, I'd
sell my
HDS wings and replace them with HD wings in a heartbeat. I don't think
the Jab 2200 would be a good engine for that altitude in any case.

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Gig Giacona wrote:
Quote:


It's not that they won't work in the HDS but since you said you were based at 6K feet you need the additional power.

heisan wrote:

> So it seems no one has actually tried it... I was hoping it would work, because I have an opportunity to get a 2200 engine at a good price. I know they work OK in an HD model, and I was hoping the lower drag of the HDS model would make it a more practical engine option.
>
> Oh well - have to hunt for another good value engine.
>
> Wink
>
> Justin
>
--------
W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR


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heisan



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine? Reply with quote

larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
Justin,
I'd like to chime in again. I failed to make the point that the HD has
considerably more lift than the HDS. Though the HDS has a higher speed,
the HDS climb cannot begin to keep up with the HD. At your altitude,
I'd think you'd be much better off going with the HD. With the HDS
you'd need
to either reduce payload or decrease your pitch to climb and this will
negate the higher speed you see in the HDS. If I lived at 6000 ft, I'd
sell my
HDS wings and replace them with HD wings in a heartbeat. I don't think
the Jab 2200 would be a good engine for that altitude in any case.

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com


Airfield altitude is 4500', but typical daytime temps put the DA at 6000'+ (hits 8000' on a summer day).

An 80hp Jabiru SP fully loaded at 550kg takes off in around 800m, climbs at 300-500fpm at 8000' DA. Cruise power will give you 90KIAS, or just over 105KTAS at 10500'.

So, the 80hp Jabiru motor does work fine up here. The only problem is that I don't know how the drag of the HDS compares to the Jabiru SP.

Anyway - I am looking around for a better engine - hopefully I will be able to find something at 100hp+ that I can afford Wink .

Thanks for all the feedback!

Justin


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XIUYAN1



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:52 am    Post subject: los-angeles-times Reply with quote

Не выйдет!
И тогда, человек способен


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