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Contactor

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sam(at)fr8dog.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: Contactor

I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay,  listed on the Ecic Jones web site?

 Thanks,

 Sam Marlow

 RV10 wiring

       [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: Contactor

Good Morning Sam,

  

 Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, but  do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master  Switch?

  

 The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed contactor.  

  

 The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On  position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and opened  the master avionics contactor. 

  

  When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the  master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was turned on,  the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the contactor leaving  the avionics unpowered. 

  

 When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the ON  position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and powered the  stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any power was when it was  being held open during the time when I wanted the Avionics Buss unpowered.

  

 In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most likely  fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics.

  

 Worked for me!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 1/31/2007 9:06:26 A.M. Central Standard Time,  sam(at)fr8dog.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I'm    ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is    something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the    battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to hold    it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the    PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State    Relay,  listed on the Ecic Jones web site?

Thanks,

Sam    Marlow

RV10    wiring

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	




  [quote][b]

sam(at)fr8dog.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: Contactor

Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed contactor?

 

 BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com) wrote:

 [quote]                     Good Morning Sam,

    

   Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, but do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch?

    

   The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed contactor. 

    

   The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and opened the master avionics contactor. 

    

   When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was turned on, the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the contactor leaving the avionics unpowered. 

    

   When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the ON position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and powered the stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any power was when it was being held open during the time when I wanted the Avionics Buss unpowered.

    

   In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most likely fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics.

    

   Worked for me!

    

   Happy Skies,

   

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8503

   

    

   In a message dated 1/31/2007 9:06:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, sam(at)fr8dog.net (sam(at)fr8dog.net) writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay,  listed on the Ecic Jones web site?

 Thanks,

 Sam Marlow

 RV10 wiring

           	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     	
   

   

       	  Quote: 	
		  



 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List



	
 [b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: Contactor

In a message dated 1/31/2007 10:04:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,  sam(at)fr8dog.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed    contactor?

	


 

Good Morning Sam,

  

 The one I used was made by Essex Wire. I replaced it a few years later and  found that division had been sold to Cole Hersee.  I just looked in my  Newark catalog and find neither Essex Wire or Cole Hersee listed!

  

 A quick check has found several other manufacturers. One is Stancor  and I am sure they would have something suitable. I guess the best thing to do  is attack Google until you find what you want.

  

 Happy hunting and,

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503

  [quote][b]

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: Contactor

At 10:03 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is 

something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the 

battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to 

hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the 

PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay,  listed on the Ecic Jones web site?


	


   What's a radio master contactor? Do I presume correctly

   that you're operating outside design goals and examples

   cited in:



http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf



   It's not completely clear to me how your proposed

   radio master contactor fits into the overall system

   In any case, few avionics loads need switchgear so

   robust as a starter or battery contactor. For these

   lighter loads, there are dozens of options for various

   relays (mini-contactors if you will) that will handle

   the loads . . . not the least of which is Eric's solid

   state relay.



        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------

        ( IF one aspires to be "world class",  )

        ( what ever you do must be exercised   )

        ( EVERY day . . .                      )

        (                  R. L. Nuckolls III  )

        ----------------------------------------

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: Contactor

At 10:22 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Good Morning Sam,



Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, but 

do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch?



The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed contactor.



The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On 

position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and opened 

the master avionics contactor.



When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the 

master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was turned 

on, the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the contactor 

leaving the avionics unpowered.



When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the ON 

position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and powered 

the stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any power was 

when it was being held open during the time when I wanted the Avionics 

Buss unpowered.



In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most likely 

fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics.


	


    An alternative to this approach is to craft an E-Bus

    in the spirit and intent of any Z-figure. Then put

    the AMS switch-relay in series with the normal-feedpath

    diode. One gets all the advantages of the dual-feedpath

    e-bus complete with isolation from the effects of

    forgetting to open the master switch before closing

    the alternate feed switch.



    Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------

        ( IF one aspires to be "world class",  )

        ( what ever you do must be exercised   )

        ( EVERY day . . .                      )

        (                  R. L. Nuckolls III  )

        ----------------------------------------

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Contactor

At 10:59 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed contactor?


	


   In the normally closed contactor catalog. However, I'll

   suggest it will be easier to find if you call it a "relay".

   Contactors are generally in the class of double-make, high

   current ( >50A ) switching devices. What you're looking for

   is something rated on the order of 20A. The catalogs are

   replete with examples not the least of which may be seen

   at:



http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/1735-1738.pdf



http://tinyurl.com/2jfse2



http://tinyurl.com/2jey84



        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------

        ( IF one aspires to be "world class",  )

        ( what ever you do must be exercised   )

        ( EVERY day . . .                      )

        (                  R. L. Nuckolls III  )

        ----------------------------------------

sales(at)6440autoparts.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: Contactor

They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications. Has 

anyone tried one of them ?



Randy



---

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: Contactor

At 02:44 PM 1/31/2007 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<sales(at)6440autoparts.com>



        They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications. 

 Has anyone tried one of them ?


	


    Yup. Turns out that any part designed to survive under

    the hood of a car is entirely suited for use in airplanes.



    Bob . . .

sales(at)6440autoparts.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: Contactor

That's good to know. I have plenty of used ones around here but I think 

I would opt for new ones (dang I hate it when my motto is "why buy new when 

used will do") It may still be a good idea for all that use relays to pick 

out a common type that is plentiful, may be good in a pinch.



Randy



---

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: Contactor

At 04:53 PM 1/31/2007 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<sales(at)6440autoparts.com>



     That's good to know. I have plenty of used ones around here but I 

 think I would opt for new ones (dang I hate it when my motto is "why buy 

 new when used will do") It may still be a good idea for all that use 

 relays to pick out a common type that is plentiful, may be good in a pinch.



Randy


	


    Don't get wrapped around the "reliability" axle for ANY

    part selection. See chapter 17 for an expansion on the following

    idea:



    ANY PART can fail at any time irrespective of how many specs

    define it or Q.A. processes have tested it. EVERY PART has

    a service life . . . nothing runs forever.



    Therefore, whether you pick a relay out of your junque box

    in the shop or order it from Smiley Jack's High Dollar Parts

    Emporium, do not depend on that part to never fail.



    You do this by designing, maintaining and operating with

    a goal of achieving failure tolerance. Failure tolerance

    falls into two categories:



    (1) getting on the ground without it is problematic and

    could raise my blood pressure.



    (2) getting on the ground without it is no big deal and

    comfortable arrival at airport of intended destination is

    a breeze.



    If condition 1 applies, have a backup for it. Likelihood

    of two category 1 failures on any single tank of gas is

    pretty low . . . no matter how sleazy your parts supplier

    is. So, pick any part to use anywhere but with a plan-B

    designed into your system and operating procedures to cover

    a category 1 failure.



    A very reliable SYSTEM may be fabricated from rather

    mediocre parts.



    Bob . . .

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