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Leading edge ideas and inventions

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: Leading edge ideas and inventions

At 09:50 PM 1/28/2007 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks for the comprehensive replies, Bob---it was certainly helpful to 

understand your well thought out position.  You are well aware, I am sure 

though, that not all Aeroelectric website "clients" are as intensively 

fascinated by the details of aircraft electrical system design down at the 

molecular level that some others are.  Like others here, I'm just a pilot 

and flying airplanes, not designing them, is the part that interests 

me.  I know a lot about flying but not so much about "aviation" and hardly 

anything at all about electrical system design except that I need one.


	


   I'll be the first to admit that the AeroElectric-List is

   not everyone's ideal information source. It was intended from

   the first to be leading edge for new ideas and inventions . . .

   and to stand up and denounce bad science along with an

   explanation as to why.



   There are plenty of unfiltered venues that dispense traditional

   data not the least of which are most of the books offered by

   EAA bookstores and elsewhere. Nothing wrong with those efforts.

   They've helped the vast majority of builders get their project

   airborne.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Those who fit that description may not be interested in the details but 

still want to make a sound decision about a mature, reliable electrical 

system for their airplanes in order to best take advantage of the growing 

technical advances in avionics and navigation equipment available 

today.  Many are anxiously awaiting your "fix" for IR alternators but 

there are others who probably think they've already found one in Plane Power.


	


   Nobody would be happier than I to see someone offering

   modern alternators that work within the design goals

   I've established for myself. There is nothing better for

   the community at large than to have honorable, capable

   competition.



 	  Quote: 	
		  That seems to be the big unanswered question.  Has Plane Power put the 

genie back in the bottle or not??  They say they have---has anyone seen or 

produced independant verification of their assertions?  If so, I suspect a 

small stampede will have just begun---


	


   I'll contact Plane Power and see if they'll share any

   of the details necessary for a critical design review.

   Most companies are reluctant because they fear some risks

   to loss of proprietary information. A silly notion when

   you get right down to it. I have reverse engineered dozens

   of products but not for the purpose of cloning their work . . .

   the goal was to do BETTER. I've never dissected a product

   that I and my compatriots could not improve upon. Further,

   for all I know, folks who are my most vociferous detractors

   may have already poisoned the waters at Plane Power.



   I think that happened at Niagara Airparts . . . never

   could get those folks to discuss their products. This

   is also silly. I have a substantial following and it

   only makes sense that we should be cooperating in a win-win

   effort. So, my personal approach is to see how products

   perform in the field. If it makes sense, I'll craft

   an offering with a goal my competition feel compelled

   to emulate me instead of the other way around.



   Therefore, I'd be pleased if anyone can post first-hand

   experiences of Plane Power's products and customer service

   right here on the List.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Warm regards and again, thanks for all your hard work in this arena...


	


   Couldn't do it if it wasn't MOSTLY fun! Thank you for the

   kind words.



   Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------

        ( IF one aspires to be "world class",  )

        ( what ever you do must be exercised   )

        ( EVERY day . . .                      )

        (                  R. L. Nuckolls III  )

        ----------------------------------------

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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Leading edge ideas and inventions

IP rights do more than protect a company's product, it also protects

the company itself.  For every ten scientists that stand up and review a

product saying it is safe, any ambulance chaser can find another 10 that

will say it will kill you just being in the same room.



  I'm not a scientist, lawyer, and I certainly didn't sleep at a Holiday

Inn Express last night, nor am I criticizing Bob so let's not go there.

I just want to make sure people don't look down on a company if they

don't want to put their IP under outside scrutiny.  If someone is

concerned about going with a IVR, use an EVR.  PlanePower sells both

with the option of having a PMA'd alternator.  My point is, make sure

you have a full discussion with the vendor on their product and

capabilities.  Don't just take the word of an Internet mailing list.



Michael Sausen

-10 #352 Limbo



--

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: Leading edge ideas and inventions

At 08:31 AM 1/29/2007 -0600, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>



   IP rights do more than protect a company's product, it also protects

the company itself.  For every ten scientists that stand up and review a

product saying it is safe, any ambulance chaser can find another 10 that

will say it will kill you just being in the same room.



   I'm not a scientist, lawyer, and I certainly didn't sleep at a Holiday

Inn Express last night, nor am I criticizing Bob so let's not go there.

I just want to make sure people don't look down on a company if they

don't want to put their IP under outside scrutiny.  If someone is

concerned about going with a IVR, use an EVR.  PlanePower sells both

with the option of having a PMA'd alternator.  My point is, make sure

you have a full discussion with the vendor on their product and

capabilities.  Don't just take the word of an Internet mailing list.


	


   Absolutely! But there is NO excuse whatsoever to withhold

   any system integration, performance, limits or operational

   data on any product. I'm always amazed at how little information

   that suppliers of products are able to supply in response

   to perfectly reasonable questions. I suspect most data is

   not forthcoming due to ignorance on the part of the person(s)

   tasked with customer service.



   The intellectual property issues are certainly valid

   concerns . . . for original work. But most companies are

   basically lazy: "Let's throw the proprietary information

   stamp on everything." This nicely relieves anyone of

   responsibility (and indirectly liability) for having to

   make a personal decision. The end result from this

   policy-n-procedures cloaking of all data under black

   blankets is that customer service folks are handcuffed.

   Customers are deprived of information they need to

   make a considered buying decision and to use the

   product after purchase.



   Once you sell a product, virtually everything to

   be known about it is now loose in the wild. It's

   only a matter of $time$ for anyone who wishes to

   dissect and discover its "secrets". Interestingly

   enough, of all the products I've dissected, I've

   discovered no novel techniques applied. Further,

   the techniques were so unimaginative or outdated

   that it was no big deal to craft newer and very

   aggressive competition for that product. I'm only

   suggesting that the $time$ most organizations spend

   to "protect" themselves is actually wasted effort

   and in many instances, counter-productive to their

   success in the marketplace.



   Even the much touted 'patent' is of suspect value.

   Once you HAVE a patent for which you've invested

   much $time$, you're obligated to protect it. So

   suppose GM decides to step on some little company

   with a whippy but patented idea. In our system

   where losers are not required to pay all litigation

   costs, what are the odds that Small Parts, Inc.

   will prevail against an onslaught from Big Parts,

   Inc? Remember the guy named Tucker?



   The most successful ventures have been those who

   took old, proven, public domain ideas and crafted

   them into a product with exemplary performance

   at a fair value backed by good customer service

   . . . like that guy named Van.



   In no way was I attempting to belittle the need

   for keeping truly original work as private as

   practical . . . but lazy organizations shoot

   themselves in both feet and between the eyes

   by failing to observe the prime directive of

   successful businesses: "Make sure that a customer

   who owns your product is looking forward to

   buying a replacement for that product from

   YOU after a long and pleasing experience.

   There is no better advertisement than having

   that customer showing the product to others

   and speaking favorably about it throughout its

   lifetime."



   Bob . . .

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vaughnray(at)bvunet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: Leading edge ideas and inventions

You said "  There is no better advertisement than having

   that customer  showing the product to others

   and speaking favorably about it  throughout its

   lifetime."



   Bob . .  ."

  

 All that I can  say to that is "AMEN Brother". Unfortunately, so many companies are losing sight  of that principle that reputation has become a bigger influance on my buying  decisions than price.

  

 I have often  not bought a product because I asked a question to which I knew the answer, but  was given a line of obvious BS because the contact person didn't want to take  the time to answer the question or did not know the answer and was too lazy  to find out or didn't care to find out. How can you not want to find the answer?  The downside of this curiosity can be a very long build time. This is where the  shades of gray inter the picture.

  

 Sorry Bob, you  poked a raw nerve of mine.

  

 Vaughn

 N914VA (60% to  80% completed, depending on the gathering of answers) 

 



    [quote][b]

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