Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Mod60

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Mod60

Hi all

 

 

 Curious has anyone photos or advise on mod 60 float gauge installation on a pre installed tank. Reading the mod it looks like fuel sender is fitted in the headset locker....which would be challenging to say the least ?

 

 

 Any tips / tricks from anyone that has it don, is there any location where the sender be fitted just outside of the headset locker (towards to centreline)

 

 

 Kind Regards 

 Eoin 

 

 

 Get  Outlook for iOS

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:42 pm Post subject: Mod60

I'd recommend a non-intrusive gauge:

https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/inpages/belitefuel10-05866.php?clickkey=1345778

I have one on my Hummelbird, and am in process of installing another on my Europa.Â  The deep Europa tank makes for accurate operation. Just install at the fuel drain near the tank outlet.

Output is a simple 0-5V, and calibration is at 0,1/4,1/2,3/4,and full.



I did need to install a second tank pitot (vent), but plummed to the static-side of the pressure transducer (epoxied a small pipe over the vent hole), to eliminate low readings at speed.Â  Works a treat.

Cheers,

Pete



On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 4:35 PM Eoin Maguire <EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com (EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		        

  Hi all

 

 

 Curious has anyone photos or advise on mod 60 float gauge installation on a pre installed tank. Reading the mod it looks like fuel sender is fitted in the headset locker....which would be challenging to say the least ?

 

 

 Any tips / tricks from anyone that has it don, is there any location where the sender be fitted just outside of the headset locker (towards to centreline)

 

 

 Kind RegardsÂ 

 EoinÂ 

 

 

 Get  Outlook for iOS

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: Mod60

I put a fuel sender in and my advice is dont do it.Â  Â 



Imo the sight gauge is more than adequate.Â  Infact i tend to pay more attention to my flight time that the fuel gauge.

Also as happened to me, eventually the seal will crystalize and the tank leaks.Â  Â  Replacing it is a bugger of a job.

Will



William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246





On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 16:31 Eoin Maguire <EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com (EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		        

  Hi all

 

 

 Curious has anyone photos or advise on mod 60 float gauge installation on a pre installed tank. Reading the mod it looks like fuel sender is fitted in the headset locker....which would be challenging to say the least ?

 

 

 Any tips / tricks from anyone that has it don, is there any location where the sender be fitted just outside of the headset locker (towards to centreline)

 

 

 Kind RegardsÂ 

 EoinÂ 

 

 

 Get  Outlook for iOS

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:04 pm Post subject: Mod60

I agree with not punching any holes in the tank..... and why I really like the well-functioning belite pressure probe

cheers,

Pete



On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 4:56 PM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I put a fuel sender in and my advice is dont do it.Â  Â 



Imo the sight gauge is more than adequate.Â  Infact i tend to pay more attention to my flight time that the fuel gauge.

Also as happened to me, eventually the seal will crystalize and the tank leaks.Â  Â  Replacing it is a bugger of a job.

Will



William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246





On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 16:31 Eoin Maguire <EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com (EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		        

  Hi all

 

 

 Curious has anyone photos or advise on mod 60 float gauge installation on a pre installed tank. Reading the mod it looks like fuel sender is fitted in the headset locker....which would be challenging to say the least ?

 

 

 Any tips / tricks from anyone that has it don, is there any location where the sender be fitted just outside of the headset locker (towards to centreline)

 

 

 Kind RegardsÂ 

 EoinÂ 

 

 

 Get  Outlook for iOS

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: Mod60

Pete,



Looks good . . . . . What sort of gauge did you use and approx cost please?



Also, does anyone know if there is such a thing as clear tubing that is 

fuel PROOF and stays transparent for long term please?



Thanks

Kingsley in Oz.



On 09.03.21 7:41 am, Pete Zut wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'd recommend a non-intrusive gauge:

 https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/inpages/belitefuel10-05866.php?clickkey=1345778 

 <https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/inpages/belitefuel10-05866.php?clickkey=1345778>



 I have one on my Hummelbird, and am in process of installing another 

 on my Europa.Â  The deep Europa tank makes for accurate operation. Just 

 install at the fuel drain near the tank outlet.



 Output is a simple 0-5V, and calibration is at 0,1/4,1/2,3/4,and full.



 I did need to install a second tank pitot (vent), but plummed to the 

 static-side of the pressure transducer (epoxied a small pipe over the 

 vent hole), to eliminate low readings at speed.Â  Works a treat.



 Cheers,

 Pete

eoinmaguire(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:43 am Post subject: Mod60

Hi all 

 

 

 Thanks for the input, has anyone actually completed it, and had a positive experience installing it and using it? 

 

 

 Sight gauge and flight time work ok...but we have a group of 5 flying the aircraft and we find it can be a touch off. Mainly we use flight time as a better gauge (fuel at start- fuel used)...but a more reliable system would be better. 

 

 

 We have the gauge and as part of the kit we bought , would prefer not to have to invest in any more we can avoid it, we have spend a significant sum this winter (engine, andair fuel valve, tyres, fuel pump, hose replacement etc)...saying all  that, if the float gauge is a terrible idea Iâ€™ve no problem leaving it and sticking with the sight gauge and maths ! 

 

 

 Kind Regards

 Eoin 

 

 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  On 8 Mar 2021, at 22:09, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:

 

  ï»¿  I agree with not punching any holes in the tank..... and why I really like the well-functioning belite pressure probe

 cheers,

 Pete

 

 

 

  On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 4:56 PM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   I put a fuel sender in and my advice is dont do it.    

 

 Imo the sight gauge is more than adequate.  Infact i tend to pay more attention to my flight time that the fuel gauge.

 

 

 Also as happened to me, eventually the seal will crystalize and the tank leaks.    Replacing it is a bugger of a job.

 

 

 Will

 

 William Daniell

 +1 786 878 0246

 

 

 

 

  On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 16:31 Eoin Maguire <EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com (EoinMaguire(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

  Hi all

 

 

 Curious has anyone photos or advise on mod 60 float gauge installation on a pre installed tank. Reading the mod it looks like fuel sender is fitted in the headset locker....which would be challenging to say the least ?

 

 

 Any tips / tricks from anyone that has it don, is there any location where the sender be fitted just outside of the headset locker (towards to centreline)

 

 

 Kind Regards 

 Eoin 

 

 

  Get  Outlook for iOS

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:48 am Post subject: Mod60

In my hummel i reworked Beliteâ€™s to fit, in the europa i rolled my own led, but any 0-5v will do.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 8, 2021, at 11:08 PM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 

 Pete,

 

 Looks good . . . . . What sort of gauge did you use and approx cost please?

 

 Also, does anyone know if there is such a thing as clear tubing that is fuel PROOF and stays transparent for long term please?

 

 Thanks

 Kingsley in Oz.

 

 

 

> On 09.03.21 7:41 am, Pete Zut wrote:

> I'd recommend a non-intrusive gauge:

> https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/inpages/belitefuel10-05866.php?clickkey=1345778 <https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/inpages/belitefuel10-05866.php?clickkey=1345778>

> 

> I have one on my Hummelbird, and am in process of installing another on my Europa.  The deep Europa tank makes for accurate operation. Just install at the fuel drain near the tank outlet.

> 

> Output is a simple 0-5V, and calibration is at 0,1/4,1/2,3/4,and full.

> 

> I did need to install a second tank pitot (vent), but plummed to the static-side of the pressure transducer (epoxied a small pipe over the vent hole), to eliminate low readings at speed.  Works a treat.

> 

> Cheers,

> Pete

>

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 634

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Mod60

Pete,



The problem with the BeLite probe is that it is not a differential pressure transducer.  The tank vent faces into the airstream and pressurizes the tank.  The amount of pressure varies with airspeed.  While the amount of pressure from the vent is small, the weight of fuel is also quite small. This will affect the calibration.  



I have been using this method of measuring fuel level for many years.  I started with the system Tony K from NZ published around 2000.  Tony specified a differential pressure transducer. Over  the years I have upgraded with newer transducers.  After one of my upgrades I couldn't figure out why the calibration in flight was different than that on the ground until I realized about the vent pressure.  Changing to a differential transducer solved the problem.  I am currently using MPXV4006DP transducers.  Since they are not rated for fuel, I use a loop of tubing to force a column of air between the transducer and the liquid.



I agree with Will Daniell, having a tank sensor is not terribly useful.  Since the Rotax only uses about 5 gph, you need accuracy of 1 gal to judge 12 minute endurance.   That's difficult.  The better solution is to use the "main" tank and as it gets low, monitor fuel pressure.  When fuel pressure starts to drop, switch tanks.  You can easily do this, especially with an EFIS, and the engine won't miss a beat.  Then you have the 3 gal in the reserve side, roughly 30 minutes to land.



As always, just my opinion and experience.



Jim Butcher

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 634

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Mod60

Kingsley,



Tygon SE200 has a liner that is not affected by gasoline.  Unfortunately, if you bend or kink the tubing, the liner will be damaged.  For our sight gauge, we use SE200 that we then insert into clear plastic tubing to protect the SE200.  It works well and has been in service for over 10 years.



Jim & Heather

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Mod60

ï»¿As per my original reply, i added an equivalent pitot feeding the static port of the belite sensor on both aircraft. Easypeasy and works great. Fuel rated sensor. Quite accurate. Satisfied with both.



Fwiw,

Cheers,

Pete 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 9, 2021, at 12:09 PM, h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 

 Pete,

 

 The problem with the BeLite probe is that it is not a differential pressure transducer.  The tank vent faces into the airstream and pressurizes the tank.  The amount of pressure varies with airspeed.  While the amount of pressure from the vent is small, the weight of fuel is also quite small. This will affect the calibration.  

 

 I have been using this method of measuring fuel level for many years.  I started with the system Tony K from NZ published around 2000.  Tony specified a differential pressure transducer. Over  the years I have upgraded with newer transducers.  After one of my upgrades I couldn't figure out why the calibration in flight was different than that on the ground until I realized about the vent pressure.  Changing to a differential transducer solved the problem.  I am currently using MPXV4006DP transducers.  Since they are not rated for fuel, I use a loop of tubing to force a column of air between the transducer and the liquid.

 

 I agree with Will Daniell, having a tank sensor is not terribly useful.  Since the Rotax only uses about 5 gph, you need accuracy of 1 gal to judge 12 minute endurance.   That's difficult.  The better solution is to use the "main" tank and as it gets low, monitor fuel pressure.  When fuel pressure starts to drop, switch tanks.  You can easily do this, especially with an EFIS, and the engine won't miss a beat.  Then you have the 3 gal in the reserve side, roughly 30 minutes to land.

 

 As always, just my opinion and experience.

 

 Jim Butcher

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500907#500907

 

 

 

 

 

 

====================================
	


====================================

====================================

====================================

====================================

image0.jpeg

Description:

Filesize:

385.84 KB

Viewed:

3000 Time(s)

image0.jpeg

Description:

Filesize:

293.12 KB

Viewed:

3000 Time(s)

image1.jpeg

Description:

Filesize:

234.33 KB

Viewed:

3000 Time(s)

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Mod60

AND....btw you can sortÂ of make the endurance problem go away with an auxiliaryÂ tank.Â  Then you have 5 hours which is definitely more than I want to spend in a EuropaÂ and far more endurance than my internal tank.Â  Colombia to USA flew two up with the main and aux tank full plus ipads spare radio, tools and clothes at aboutÂ 50lbs over MTOW and well within W&B.Â  Only on the Medellin Panama leg did we come close 3:46, 408 nm and we landed with a little over 5 gals.

I like to fly with more than enough fuel to take unforeseen events into account.Â  The extra fuel was certainlyÂ comforting.

William Daniell



LONGPORT



+1 786 878 0246

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 12:49 PM Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  As per my original reply, i added an equivalent pitot feeding the static port of the belite sensor on both aircraft. Easypeasy and works great. Fuel rated sensor. Quite accurate. Satisfied with both.

 

 Fwiw,

 Cheers,

 Pete 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 > On Mar 9, 2021, at 12:09 PM, h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net (butcher43(at)att.net)> wrote:

 > 

 > ï»¿--> Europa-List message posted by: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net (butcher43(at)att.net)>

 > 

 > Pete,

 > 

 > The problem with the BeLite probe is that it is not a differential pressure transducer.Â  The tank vent faces into the airstream and pressurizes the tank.Â  The amount of pressure varies with airspeed.Â  While the amount of pressure from the vent is small, the weight of fuel is also quite small. This will affect the calibration.Â  

 > 

 > I have been using this method of measuring fuel level for many years.Â  I started with the system Tony K from NZ published around 2000.Â  Tony specified a differential pressure transducer. OverÂ  the years I have upgraded with newer transducers.Â  After one of my upgrades I couldn't figure out why the calibration in flight was different than that on the ground until I realized about the vent pressure.Â  Changing to a differential transducer solved the problem.Â  I am currently using MPXV4006DP transducers.Â  Since they are not rated for fuel, I use a loop of tubing to force a column of air between the transducer and the liquid.

 > 

 > I agree with Will Daniell, having a tank sensor is not terribly useful.Â  Since the Rotax only uses about 5 gph, you need accuracy of 1 gal to judge 12 minute endurance.Â  Â That's difficult.Â  The better solution is to use the "main" tank and as it gets low, monitor fuel pressure.Â  When fuel pressure starts to drop, switch tanks.Â  You can easily do this, especially with an EFIS, and the engine won't miss a beat.Â  Then you have the 3 gal in the reserve side, roughly 30 minutes to land.

 > 

 > As always, just my opinion and experience.

 > 

 > Jim Butcher

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > Read this topic online here:

 > 

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500907#500907

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 ===========

 ===========

 ===========

 ===========

 ===========

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 am Post subject: Mod60

Many thanks Jim.Â  I'll check out if that product is available over 

here.Â  My sight gauge tubing takes a torturous path however so that may 

present a problem but it is worth investigating.



Thanks again

Kingsley



do not archive



On 10.03.21 3:07 am, h&amp;jeuropa wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Kingsley,



 Tygon SE200 has a liner that is not affected by gasoline.  Unfortunately, if you bend or kink the tubing, the liner will be damaged.  For our sight gauge, we use SE200 that we then insert into clear plastic tubing to protect the SE200.  It works well and has been in service for over 10 years.



 Jim & Heather

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum