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Engine compartment fuse?

 
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yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:14 am    Post subject: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

Are there any industry acceptable 30 amp fuses or circuit breakers for
installation on the engine side of the firewall?
Other than a large ANL current limiters I've never noticed fuses or
C/B's in an engine compartment.  I am aware of ambient temperature
effects on current limiting devices.

Short story: This is for a 912iS install with the battery and voltage
regulator in the engine compartment and should be something that won't
raise concern from a Transport Canada inspector.  At the minimum I'd
like to run the wire between the battery and the voltage regulator
entirely within the engine compartment but it needs 30 amp protection.
thanks
Ken


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

Ken,
Look at the LittleFuse MIDI line of fuses...
https://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuses/automotive-aftermarket-products/bolt-down-fuses/midi-boxed.aspx

-Jeff

On Monday, November 2, 2020, 07:26:22 AM PST, C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com> wrote:




--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com (yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com)>

Are there any industry acceptable 30 amp fuses or circuit breakers for

installation on the engine side of the firewall?

Other than a large ANL current limiters I've never noticed fuses or

C/B's in an engine compartment. I am aware of ambient temperature

effects on current limiting devices.

Short story: This is for a 912iS install with the battery and voltage

regulator in the engine compartment and should be something that won't

raise concern from a Transport Canada inspector. At the minimum I'd

like to run the wire between the battery and the voltage regulator

entirely within the engine compartment but it needs 30 amp protection.

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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

The Rotax 912iS engine comes with a fuse box that is mounted on the
engine side of the firewall. It contains many ATC and Mini fuses.
If Rotax uses them, then so can we.
If a fuse nuisance blows due to ambient temperature, use one size larger.
Could your engine be a 912ULS?


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rparigoris



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

Hi Ken FWIW I just installed a 30 amp MIDI fuse on my Rotax 914. I punched out the hole of the MIDI to 1/4"and mounted one side to my shunt and the other side to a 1/4-28 Brass stud so a holder was not needed. McMaster and B&C sells MIDI holders. Note that MIDI and Maxi fuses are not as fast acting as ATC and MINI. Maxi fuese are large ATC like fuses. McMaster sells the inline fast on style holder as well as a more robust clamp style holder. I was on the fence between MIDI and Maxi. Ron P.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

At 10:06 AM 11/2/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Ken,

Look at the LittleFuse MIDI line of fuses...

https://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuses/automotive-aftermarket-products/bolt-down-fuses/midi-boxed.aspx

These things require a mounting block which
might not be a bad thing if it adds a fat-wire
distribution point. But a MAXI holder butt-spliced
into the feeder would work too and much less
fuss. Here's a link to the data sheet
.pdf download

https://tinyurl.com/y3h5wj4o

It can be tied into a wire bundle but has
a hole for mechanical mounting if that
seems more elegant. The holders are
liquid tight.

Both holders and fuses are available at
most carparts emporiums.





Bob . . .


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rparigoris



Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

Hi Ken Here's a McMaster MIDI Fuse Holder: https://www.mcmaster.com/fuse-holders Note McMaster can order you a 30 amp MIDI or you can buy a 30 amp and holder from B&C, here's a pretty robust McMaster Maxi fuse holder: https://www.mcmaster.com/maxi-compatible-fuse-blocks Ron P.

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johnbright



Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 165
Location: Newport News, VA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

This may be more than what the OP was asking but I made notes for myself and I'll share them here.

Speaking of bolt-down fuses and current limiters, from what I have seen there are three bolt center-to-center distances: 61 mm, 2", and 30 mm.

B&C shows only 61 mm on their website: Bussman ANL current limiters and their holders.

61 mm centers:
    Bussman ANN 10 to 800 A fast-acting current limiters.
    Bussman ANL 35 to 750 A current limiters. I gather ANL is originally a Bussman term that has been co-opted by others.
    Renology ANL 61 mm fuses. Renology calls it a fuse and it looks about as fast as an ANN fast-acting current limiter.


2" centers:
    Bussman AMG 100 to 300 A fuses.
    Littlefuse MEGA 40 to 100 A fuses.


30 mm centers:
    Bussmann AMI 30 to 150 A fuses. Seems to be practically the same as MIDI.
    Littelfuse MIDI 23 to 200 A fuses.
    Littlefuse BF1 23 to 200 A fuses. Seems to be practically the same as MIDI.
    Various offerings of fuses under the generic name MANL, mini ANL.


When fusess are listed as MEG they mean MEGA.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

Joe and Ron  thanks for your thoughts
It is the 912i with the large rotax supplied fuse box. (The rotax
supplied fuse box with voltage regulators that rotax says must be
located in the engine compartment due to fire risk but must be kept
below 80 Celsius). From an inspectors point of view an an
automotive/marine fuse block is probably not quite as acceptable as a
rotax supplied fuse box but it may be an option.  A 10awg wire feed from
the battery contactor hardly seems like a classic "fat wire" that
doesn't need current protection but I could upsize it and that may be
the easiest solution.  It would mean a total of three 30 amp fused wires
passing  back through the firewall to the rotax voltage regulator/fuse
box in the engine compartment.

In the past I've used a maxi fuse holder on the cold side of the FW.  I
did not know about the midi fuses.  Most fuse holders seem to be good
for only about 85*C. but that also seems true for the rotax supplied box.
Ken
On 02/11/2020 4:09 PM, rparigoris wrote:
Quote:


Hi Ken FWIW I just installed a 30 amp MIDI fuse on my Rotax 914. I punched out the hole of the MIDI to 1/4"and mounted one side to my shunt and the other side to a 1/4-28 Brass stud so a holder was not needed. McMaster and B&C sells MIDI holders. Note that MIDI and Maxi fuses are not as fast acting as ATC and MINI. Maxi fuese are large ATC like fuses. McMaster sells the inline fast on style holder as well as a more robust clamp style holder. I was on the fence between MIDI and Maxi. Ron P.


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499206#499206




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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:14 am    Post subject: Two Fuse Option Reply with quote

Attached is a schematic using only two fuses.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 am    Post subject: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

thanks Joe
It's tough for me but as a new rotax guy I'm trying to just assimilate
into the rotax culture and follow their advice rather than fight it and
do what seems logical since we don't really know what failures or
situations they are trying to cater to.  One possible drawback for
eliminating one of those fuses is that if the start power fuse pops
after the engine has cranked just enough to keep going (rare but not
unknown) it would disable backup power for the flight so I thought I'd
keep all three 30 amp fuses.

I do plane to  use a start power relay similar to the rotax blessed
rs-flight system which at least means the start power won't have to go
to a switch on the instrument panel.

I will add over voltage protection since despite verbal claims otherwise
the current install manual actually says "5. Attention: In failure
conditions the output voltage can exceed the specified limits"

thanks and keep the ideas coming
Ken

On 05/11/2020 9:14 AM, user9253 wrote:
Quote:


Attached is a schematic using only two fuses.

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499261#499261


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http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_x3_896.png



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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Engine compartment fuse? Reply with quote

Having a momentary start enable switch could be advantageous by making it
more difficult for unauthorized people (kids) to start the engine.


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