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Speaking of Aux Batteries

 
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries Reply with quote

Here's a work-in-progress z-figure I've been
massaging off and on for a few months.

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/ZxxP3_1BAT_DualAlt_BO-Boost.pdf

One goal of several is to exploit the higher capacity
pad-driven alternators . . . a thing we considered
with Z10-20 a few years back.

This has the three layer architecture of Z10-8 along
with the e-bus, brown-out boost that was discussed
here on the list a few months back.

The value of an aux battery goes away . . . good
thing . . . you almost can't have too few batteries.
We're still stuck with one . . . only one.


Bob . . .


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art(at)zemon.name
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries Reply with quote

Bob,
I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the core diagram.
I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.
So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.
I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."
Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine instruments.
    -- Art Z.


On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 11:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Here's a work-in-progress z-figure I've been
massaging off and on for a few months.

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/ZxxP3_1BAT_DualAlt_BO-Boost.pdf

One goal of several is to exploit the higher capacity
pad-driven alternators . . . a thing we considered
with Z10-20 a few years back.

This has the three layer architecture of Z10-8 along
with the e-bus, brown-out boost that was discussed
here on the list a few months back.

The value of an aux battery goes away . . . good
thing . . . you almost can't have too few batteries.
We're still stuck with one . . . only one.


  Bob . . .

--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. Deut. 10:19


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1623
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries Reply with quote

I suspect you are looking at spec sheets rather than real numbers. My
Dynon labeled Trig 1090ES transponder runs well below 0.5 amps. My SL-30
Nav-com is also down around 0.2 amps in receive mode. Each of my 10"
screens draws 2.5-3.5 amps depending on whether the backup battery is
charging.
So, I have one switch that turns off one 10" screen and the GTN-650.
That leaves me VHF nav and com, VFR GPS on single 10" screen and
transponder. However, without the GTN-650, the transponder does not
output ADSB data, just mode C. Doesn't bother me, because I am already
in emergency mode if I am load shedding. Or I can leave the GTN-650 on
(3.5 amps) and just turn off the second screen.
All depends on how much load needs to be shed for given situation.

On 9/3/2019 6:45 PM, Art Zemon wrote:
Quote:
Bob,

I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the
core diagram.

I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for
the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm
radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps
max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps
max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.

So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the
EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I
planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout
booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.

I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that
comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and
b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T
PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."

Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that
needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine
instruments.

    -- Art Z.


On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 11:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>>
wrote:

Here's a work-in-progress z-figure I've been
massaging off and on for a few months.

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/ZxxP3_1BAT_DualAlt_BO-Boost.pdf


One goal of several is to exploit the higher capacity
pad-driven alternators . . . a thing we considered
with Z10-20 a few years back.

This has the three layer architecture of Z10-8 along
with the e-bus, brown-out boost that was discussed
here on the list a few months back.

The value of an aux battery goes away . . . good
thing . . . you almost can't have too few batteries.
We're still stuck with one . . . only one.

__

__   Bob . . .



--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/

/Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. /Deut. 10:19


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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:02 am    Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries Reply with quote

At 08:45 PM 9/3/2019, you wrote:
Quote:
Bob,

I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the core diagram.

I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.

So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.

I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."

Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine instruments.

Boost converters are available for
just about any size . . . but keep
in mind that the 'boost' is necessary
for a few hundred milliseconds and
real loads are the standby values
for transceivers . . . not the max.

"Boosting" the e-bus to carry what ever
your static endurance loads may be is
entirely practical.

The 'trick' is all in the timing. Boost
has to initiate before the starter
contactor closes and needs to sustain
past (1) rise in battery voltage due
to expiration of inrush current or (2)
contactor opening, which ever happens
first. I'm fiddling with some ways to
get that to happen.




Bob . . .


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:20 am    Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries Reply with quote

At 08:45 PM 9/3/2019, you wrote:
Quote:
Bob,

I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the core diagram.

I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.

So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.

I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."

Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine instruments.

Boost converters are available for
just about any size . . . but keep
in mind that the 'boost' is necessary
for a few hundred milliseconds and
real loads are the standby values
for transceivers . . . not the max.

"Boosting" the e-bus to carry what ever
your static endurance loads may be is
entirely practical.

The 'trick' is all in the timing. Boost
has to initiate before the starter
contactor closes and needs to sustain
past (1) rise in battery voltage due
to expiration of inrush current or (2)
contactor opening, which ever happens
first. I'm fiddling with some ways to
get that to happen.




Bob . . .


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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