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What is the cylinder torque value for the nuts at the base.

 
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yakman285(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:43 am    Post subject: What is the cylinder torque value for the nuts at the base. Reply with quote

Be sure and check that the reason why the nuts became loose was not related to loosening and/or backing out of the cylinder studs. I have found this to be more common. Double nut each stud and check tightness first before proceeding.
Craig Payne

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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject: What is the cylinder torque value for the nuts at the base. Reply with quote

Hi;

Very interesting comments particularly in the area of "multi step, angular
or stretch based" torque. Multi step (1/3 or 1/2 torque value per step) is
standard practice and stretched based is a given. That left me with
"angular" which I thought may be in reference to the application in
sequences of 180 deg. separation. This is also standard practice.
But I looked that up and found a very interesting article (Warren & Brown -
Australia) that equated "angular" with "torque to yield" technology which
applies only to special bolts on which a portion of the head fails when the
correct torque (and stretch), within the elastic limit, is reached. A neat
idea, also used in aviation in a product called "Hi- Lock" fasteners, though
in this case part of the special nut fails at the correct torque. In any
event not applicable to cylinder hold down.

The one and only specification we have for the torque value is 304 lb/in.
This comes from the M14P documentation. We have absolutely nothing from
China. This is not a major concern as the hardware is identical, though an
English language overhaul manual would be appreciated. Just realized I have
not checked the Polish overhaul manual! Will do that.

As noted previously I have made some comparison of these cylinder stud
specs. with those of Pratt & Whitney and found them to be very similar in
strength related characteristics which strongly co-relate with the given
torque values. P&W specify 300 lb/in, LUBED. Our engines use 8 studs per
cylinder. The R985 uses 12 (450 hp/t.o.) and the R1340 16 studs. (600/t.o.)
We have been assured by some on this list that the Russian specification
applies only to"clean and dry" threads yet the only reference page that has
been provided made no mention of the subject. If this is in fact stated
in the manual I would hope they would provide it.
If that is correct information it would likely be the only aircraft engine
manufacturer in existence to not specify lubricated in this case.

I am one of those LAME guys but in Canada we drop the L.

Walt

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Vic



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 113
Location: Southern Bavaria

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the cylinder torque value for the nuts at the ba Reply with quote

No matter, how much you mess around with all sorts of torque settings, your real root of the mess is the paper gasket. I bet, nobody with a M 14 has had any troubles there, no gasket , just an o-ring for seal. So there is metal-to metal contact at the cylinder base, no creeping paper due to loads and vibration. Any preload from base studs will vanish with time so instead get a Loctite low strength sealant, anaerobic like thread locks, no silicone or thinner based sealants. There are rubber like or soft plastic type Loctite sealants and I have not used paper gaskets for decades on cylinder bases, they just lead to distorted base flanges and creep under load.

Vic


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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject: What is the cylinder torque value for the nuts at the base. Reply with quote

Loose cylinder base nuts are Much more common on the Huosai than the M14. M14 manual specifies dry thread torque too.
Dennis

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Jun 24, 2019, at 6:52 PM, woodja51 <mwuillemin(at)mac.com> wrote:



Following on from what a poster sent about nut torque/ wet or dry.

It would appear that failure to lubricate / oil nuts when applying torque can lead to about half the torque simply being used to break thread / friction etc?

28 foot lbs on a dry nut might result in only half that value actually being applied to create clamping forces. I know these nuts are only acting in tensionso might not be 100% applicable ( as the YouTube video concerned plates in building steel etc.. but worth consideration and might be why M14P?nuts torqued this way might come loose ? Just a thought. M




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489814#489814











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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: What is the cylinder torque value for the nuts at the base. Reply with quote

Hi Dennis;

Can you supply a copy of that manual page?

Thanks;
Walt

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