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hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:07 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?

Ivan Haecker


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Hi Ivan, recommend that you forward this email to Bill at B&C. He will know & he is one of the good guys!

Quote:
On Jan 16, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> wrote:



After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?

Ivan Haecker





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Thanks Earl. I’ll do that.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:33 PM Earl Schroeder <n233ee(at)gmail.com (n233ee(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl Schroeder <n233ee(at)gmail.com (n233ee(at)gmail.com)>

Hi Ivan, recommend that you forward this email to Bill at B&C.  He will know & he is one of the good guys!

> On Jan 16, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>
>
> After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C  starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?
>
> Ivan Haecker
>
>
>

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Not directly to your question, but to save yourself the hassle of hooking up a charger, you might consider adding a solar panel to your plane. For less than $20, you can get a 6"x12" panel that will deliver 100mA or so. If you're only starting a couple times a week, you'd probably never need to hunt down a charger.


On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 2:08:15 PM EST, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> wrote:




--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>

After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?

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John M Tipton



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Devon - England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

How do you regulate the charge with these things, can you over charge a battery

John

Sent from my iPad

----x--O--x----
On 17 Jan 2019, at 2:51 pm, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:

Not directly to your question, but to save yourself the hassle of hooking up a charger, you might consider adding a solar panel to your plane. For less than $20, you can get a 6"x12" panel that will deliver 100mA or so. If you're only starting a couple times a week, you'd probably never need to hunt down a charger.


On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 2:08:15 PM EST, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)> wrote:




--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>

After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

I like that idea. Of course, the sun never shines in my hangar, but it usually does when I’m flying! 

I wrote an e-mail to B&C, but they only said that in general, they recommend Earth X batteries. What I really need to know is what size (capacity) battery I need, i.e., how many cca’s, etc. that I need to accomplish my intended goals. I guess I need to do a little research.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 8:57 AM Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:

Not directly to your question, but to save yourself the hassle of hooking up a charger, you might consider adding a solar panel to your plane.  For less than $20, you can get a 6"x12" panel that will deliver 100mA or so.  If you're only starting a couple times a week, you'd probably never need to hunt down a charger.


On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 2:08:15 PM EST, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)> wrote:




--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>

After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C  starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Ivan, you might also reach out to Earthx to see what they would recommend. Last I checked Bruce was running a total loss Earthx in his LSA and it was lasting a long time. Let me know if you want help getting in touch with him.

On January 17, 2019 14:23:18 "H. Ivan Haecker" <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
I like that idea. Of course, the sun never shines in my hangar, but it usually does when I’m flying!

I wrote an e-mail to B&C, but they only said that in general, they recommend Earth X batteries. What I really need to know is what size (capacity) battery I need, i.e., how many cca’s, etc. that I need to accomplish my intended goals. I guess I need to do a little research.

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 8:57 AM Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:

Quote:

Not directly to your question, but to save yourself the hassle of hooking up a charger, you might consider adding a solar panel to your plane. For less than $20, you can get a 6"x12" panel that will deliver 100mA or so. If you're only starting a couple times a week, you'd probably never need to hunt down a charger.


On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 2:08:15 PM EST, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)> wrote:




--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>

After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

They would only output about 14V Max. They don't have enough power to damage anything as I understood it, but that was with a lead acid battery. If you talking to the battery guys, ask them and let us know what they have to say about it.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Quote:
On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:10 PM, John Tipton
<john(at)tiptonuk.eu> wrote:

How do you regulate the charge with these things, can you over charge a battery

John

Sent from my iPad

----x--O--x----
On 17 Jan 2019, at 2:51 pm, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:

Not directly to your question, but to save yourself the hassle of hooking up a charger, you might consider adding a solar panel to your plane. For less than $20, you can get a 6"x12" panel that will deliver 100mA or so. If you're only starting a couple times a week, you'd probably never need to hunt down a charger.


On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 2:08:15 PM EST, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)> wrote:




--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>

After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to install a B & C starter. My plan is to use a light weight lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery. I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Might not be needed with a small panel but Ebay has solar charging
modules specifically for charging 12 volt batteries. Bought one last
year for 3 or 4 dollars. Optimizes solar cell output and won't overcharge.
Ken

On 17/01/2019 6:30 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
Quote:
They would only output about 14V Max. They don't have enough power to
damage anything as I understood it, but that was with a lead acid
battery. If you talking to the battery guys, ask them and let us know
what they have to say about it.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 2:10 PM, John Tipton
<john(at)tiptonuk.eu> wrote:
How do you regulate the charge with these things, can you over
charge a battery

John

Sent from my iPad

     ----x--O--x----

On 17 Jan 2019, at 2:51 pm, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net
<mailto:echristley(at)att.net>> wrote:

> Not directly to your question, but to save yourself the hassle of
> hooking up a charger, you might consider adding a solar panel to
> your plane.  For less than $20, you can get a 6"x12" panel that
> will deliver 100mA or so. If you're only starting a couple times
> a week, you'd probably never need to hunt down a charger.
>
> On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 2:08:15 PM EST, Ivan
> <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com <mailto:hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com <mailto:hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com>>
>
> After 35 years of hand propping my C-85 engine, I have decided to
> install a B & C  starter. My plan is to use a light weight
> lithium battery for starting only. I have no electrical system
> whatsoever. There will be no alternator to recharge the battery.
> I would like to choose a battery that will allow me a few starts
> (perhaps 6?) before needing to be be recharged on the ground. Any
> suggestions on what size / capacity battery I should be looking for?
> <;     - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

At 05:30 PM 1/17/2019, you wrote:
Quote:
They would only output about 14V Max. They don't have enough power to damage anything as I understood it, but that was with a lead acid battery. If you talking to the battery guys, ask them and let us know what they have to say about it.

Solar battery chargers are at best, unpredictable
'trickle' chargers. Their output almost never meets
nameplate numbers. Output is subject to vagaries
of the sunshine. Output is not controlled to prevent
overcharging of the battery.

My recommendation for a battery-only electrical
system, particularly if the battery is a light
weight and relatively expensive lithium device
is to take it home between flights and put it
on a charger-maintainer recommended by the
battery's manufacturer.

I had readers doing this with SVLA batteries
25 years ago who reported excellent performance
and longevity from the battery. This was common
to both sail plane owners and owners of powered
ships with electrical needs but no engine
driven power sources.



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 05:30 PM 1/17/2019, you wrote:
Quote:
They would only output about 14V Max. They don't have enough power to damage anything as I understood it, but that was with a lead acid battery. If you talking to the battery guys, ask them and let us know what they have to say about it.

  Solar battery chargers are at best, unpredictable
  'trickle' chargers. Their output almost never meets
  nameplate numbers. Output is subject to vagaries
  of the sunshine. Output is not controlled to prevent
  overcharging of the battery.

  My recommendation for a battery-only electrical
  system, particularly if the battery is a light
  weight and relatively expensive lithium device
  is to take it home between flights and put it
  on a charger-maintainer recommended by the
  battery's manufacturer.

  I had readers doing this with SVLA batteries
  25 years ago who reported excellent performance
  and longevity from the battery. This was common
  to both sail plane owners and owners of powered
  ships with electrical needs but no engine
  driven power sources.



  Bob . . .
As a data point, a friend who sells rides in a 1929 TravelAir biplane did it for years with a battery-only starting system. He did finally have a generating system installed for convenience, but the fact that he ran a commercial operation with a 'total loss' system shows it can work well. I wish I could tell you the size of the battery he used, but I can't remember and he never knew (good pilot, but mechanic, not so much...).
Charlie 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

I contacted EarhX, and given the parameters of my engine and the fact that there will be no onboard charging, they recommend,at minimum, an EarthX 24C which is 7.8Ah with 270 CCA. Of course, the larger the battery, the more engine starts available before recharge. I meant to ask them about a solar cell for charging, but forgot to do that. I’ll call again next week and post their response.

Ivan

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 2:59 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:


On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 05:30 PM 1/17/2019, you wrote:
Quote:
They would only output about 14V Max. They don't have enough power to damage anything as I understood it, but that was with a lead acid battery. If you talking to the battery guys, ask them and let us know what they have to say about it.

  Solar battery chargers are at best, unpredictable
  'trickle' chargers. Their output almost never meets
  nameplate numbers. Output is subject to vagaries
  of the sunshine. Output is not controlled to prevent
  overcharging of the battery.

  My recommendation for a battery-only electrical
  system, particularly if the battery is a light
  weight and relatively expensive lithium device
  is to take it home between flights and put it
  on a charger-maintainer recommended by the
  battery's manufacturer.

  I had readers doing this with SVLA batteries
  25 years ago who reported excellent performance
  and longevity from the battery. This was common
  to both sail plane owners and owners of powered
  ships with electrical needs but no engine
  driven power sources.



  Bob . . .


As a data point, a friend who sells rides in a 1929 TravelAir biplane did it for years with a battery-only starting system. He did finally have a generating system installed for convenience, but the fact that he ran a commercial operation with a 'total loss' system shows it can work well. I wish I could tell you the size of the battery he used, but I can't remember and he never knew (good pilot, but mechanic, not so much...).


Charlie 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

On 18/01/2019 12:19 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Quote:
At 05:30 PM 1/17/2019, you wrote:
> They would only output about 14V Max. They don't have enough power to
> damage anything as I understood it, but that was with a lead acid
> battery. If you talking to the battery guys, ask them and let us know
> what they have to say about it.

Solar battery chargers are at best, unpredictable
'trickle' chargers. Their output almost never meets
nameplate numbers. Output is subject to vagaries
of the sunshine. Output is not controlled to prevent
overcharging of the battery.

My recommendation for a battery-only electrical
system, particularly if the battery is a light
weight and relatively expensive lithium device
is to take it home between flights and put it
on a charger-maintainer recommended by the
battery's manufacturer.

I had readers doing this with SVLA batteries
25 years ago who reported excellent performance
and longevity from the battery. This was common
to both sail plane owners and owners of powered
ships with electrical needs but no engine
driven power sources.
Bob . . .

No doubt all true for unregulated solar arrays. However there are

chargers similar to this $3.25 module that I have found to be more
accurate and consistent than the AC powered Schumacher chargers for lead
acid VRLA batteries. These are not unregulated trickle chargers but
rather multi mode optimized chargers that adhere to best practical
charging protocols. The Max Power Point Tracking (MPPT) input lets the
input voltage and power stay optimum for power transfer. All for a
couple of dollars delivered.
ebay item 183558004137
It looks like this particular one works with a solar input of 6 to 18
volts. There are definitely some cheap viable options available for the
Do-It-Yourselfer. Even more are available for Lithium batteries.

Ken


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Eric Page



Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Battery Reply with quote

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co wrote:
chargers similar to this $3.25 module that I have found to be more accurate and consistent than the AC powered Schumacher chargers for lead acid VRLA batteries. These are not unregulated trickle chargers but rather multi mode optimized chargers that adhere to best practical charging protocols. The Max Power Point Tracking (MPPT) input lets the input voltage and power stay optimum for power transfer. All for a couple of dollars delivered.
ebay item 183558004137
It looks like this particular one works with a solar input of 6 to 18 volts. There are definitely some cheap viable options available for the Do-It-Yourselfer. Even more are available for Lithium batteries.


A little digging reveals some concerns about this charger. The IC used on the module is the Consonance CN3767 (datasheet here). While it *is* a true MPPT charger (a rarity on eBay at this price point), it's probably not going to function as you would like, for a couple of reasons.

First, the seller's claim that the module can accept solar panel inputs between 6 and 18V, while true, is misleading. The CN3767 uses a buck topology, not buck-boost. This means that it can only *reduce* the input voltage. Any time the solar panel's output falls below the battery voltage minus a diode drop, the battery will not be charged at all. So to charge a battery that's sitting at 12V, the minimum solar panel output will be >12.7V (perhaps a bit less with a Schottky diode).

Second, the photos of the module show that the maximum power point voltage (Vmpp) is set lower than it should be for a low-power (<50W) solar panel. R1 is marked "25D" (178kΩ) and R2 is marked 13C (13.3kΩ). These values produce a Vmpp of just over 16V (see pages 6-7 of the datasheet):

1.205 x ((1 + 178,000) / 13300) = 16.13V

Virtually all solar panels in the 10-50W range have a Vmpp of 17-18V (at 4A max output, this module can handle up to a 50W panel). In solar charging, where system efficiency of 25% or less is common, a few tenths of a volt in Vmpp tracking can make a significant difference.

Another case of eBay buyer beware!

Eric


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Quote:
>All for a couple of dollars delivered.
> ebay item 183558004137
> It looks like this particular one works with a solar input of 6 to 18 volts. There are definitely some cheap viable options available for the Do-It-Yourselfer. Even more are available for Lithium batteries.


A little digging reveals some concerns about this charger. The IC used on the module is the Consonance CN3767 (datasheet here ([url=http://www.consonance-elec.com/pdf/datasheet/DSE-CN3767.pdf)).%A0] http://www.consonance-elec.com/pdf/datasheet/DSE-CN3767.pdf)). [/url] While it *is* a true MPPT charger (a rarity on eBay at this price point), it's probably not going to function as you would like, for a couple of reasons.

First, the seller's claim that the module can accept solar panel inputs between 6 and 18V, while true, is misleading. The CN3767 uses a buck topology, not buck-boost. This means that it can only *reduce* the input voltage. Any time the solar panel's output falls below the battery voltage minus a diode drop, the battery will not be charged at all. So to charge a battery that's sitting at 12V, the minimum solar panel output will be >12.7V.

Second, the photos of the module show that the maximum power point voltage (Vmpp) is set lower than it should be for a low-power

Good put Eric. I would like to qualify my
earlier assertions about 'solar chargers'
in that my comments targeted the generic
solar arrays some with built in isolation
diodes and NO active electronics. I've got
a couple of panels laying around here that
I was considering for use on farm equipment
that sits idle for long periods of time . . .
generally allowing battery(ies) to self-destruct.
Usually very EXPENSIVE batteries I might add.

Popular devices like this

https://tinyurl.com/y7x2wbfu



which is better than nothing but too small
to be a serious charger . . . and if it were
larger like this one

https://tinyurl.com/y9zy4zjs

perhaps too big to be allowed un-controlled
access to the battery in maintenance.

I have one of those '18w' devices . . . and
it's really closer to a 10 watt. Yeah, it
will put 1+ amps into an SVLA battery in
full, direct sunlight . . . but output falls
of markedly with changes in sun angle and
clouds.

To be sure, solar arrays CAN be adapted to
charging and maintaining batteries but
they require the addition of electronic
'smarts' to competently craft a set-it-and-
forget-it maintenance system.

The eBay item cited is interesting. I've
ordered a couple. I'll team one up with
a pair of my not-quite-18w panels and
put a data acquisition system on it.

MEASUREMENT will tell the story. Thanks
for the heads-up!



Bob . . .


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hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

I learned today from EarthX that they are ok with using a small solar charger to charge their batteries, as long as it will NEVER exceed 14.6 volts. Their emphasis, not mine.They also stated that many solar units commonly are 15 volts or more and therefore not to be used with their batteries.

Ivan Haecker

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 11:10 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
>All for a couple of dollars delivered.
> ebay item 183558004137
> It looks like this particular one works with a solar input of 6 to 18 volts. There are definitely some cheap viable options available for the Do-It-Yourselfer. Even more are available for Lithium batteries.


A little digging reveals some concerns about this charger.  The IC used on the module is the Consonance CN3767 (datasheet here ([url=http://www.consonance-elec.com/pdf/datasheet/DSE-CN3767.pdf)).%A0] http://www.consonance-elec.com/pdf/datasheet/DSE-CN3767.pdf)). [/url] While it *is* a true MPPT charger (a rarity on eBay at this price point), it's probably not going to function as you would like, for a couple of reasons.

First, the seller's claim that the module can accept solar panel inputs between 6 and 18V, while true, is misleading.  The CN3767 uses a buck topology, not buck-boost.  This means that it can only *reduce* the input voltage.  Any time the solar panel's output falls below the battery voltage minus a diode drop, the battery will not be charged at all.  So to charge a battery that's sitting at 12V, the minimum solar panel output will be >12.7V.

Second, the photos of the module show that the maximum power point voltage (Vmpp) is set lower than it should be for a low-power

  Good put Eric. I would like to qualify my
  earlier assertions about 'solar chargers'
  in that my comments targeted the generic
  solar arrays some with built in isolation
  diodes and NO active electronics. I've got
  a couple of panels laying around here that
  I was considering for use on farm equipment
  that sits idle for long periods of time . . .
  generally allowing battery(ies) to self-destruct.
  Usually very EXPENSIVE batteries I might add.

  Popular devices like this

https://tinyurl.com/y7x2wbfu

 

  which is better than nothing but too small
  to be a serious charger . . . and if it were
  larger like this one

https://tinyurl.com/y9zy4zjs

  perhaps too big to be allowed un-controlled
  access to the battery in maintenance.

  I have one of those '18w' devices . . . and
  it's really closer to a 10 watt. Yeah, it
  will put 1+ amps into an SVLA battery in
  full, direct sunlight . . . but output falls
  of markedly with changes in sun angle and
  clouds.

  To be sure, solar arrays CAN be adapted to
  charging and maintaining batteries but
  they require the addition of electronic
  'smarts' to competently craft a set-it-and-
  forget-it maintenance system.

  The eBay item cited is interesting. I've
  ordered a couple. I'll team one up with
  a pair of my not-quite-18w panels and
  put a data acquisition system on it.

  MEASUREMENT will tell the story. Thanks
  for the heads-up!



  Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

At 07:44 PM 1/21/2019, you wrote:
Quote:
I learned today from EarthX that they are ok with using a small solar charger to charge their batteries, as long as it will NEVER exceed 14.6 volts. Their emphasis, not mine.They also stated that many solar units commonly are 15 volts or more and therefore not to be used with their batteries.

Virtually ALL solar arrays offered to charge
12v batteries will have a full-sun, open-circuit
voltage in excess of 16 volts.

The 'small' arrays also have a rather large
internal impedance . . . meaning that the
output voltage falls off as load is increased.
But as any battery being charged with a 'barefoot'
solar array achieves full charge, flow of current
into the battery is not moderated.

The short story is that any solar array
being considered needs to have a significant
current capability . . . the wall-wart maintainers
are good for about 0.8A and WILL eventually
top off a rather large battery.

But to deliver 0.8A under marginal sun-light
conditions, the full-sun capability needs to
be 2x to 3x that amount . . . say 2.5A at
14 volts or about 35 watts.

Those cute little solar panels with cigar
lighter plugs are good for about 1-2 watts
and will MAINTAIN a fully charged battery.
But it takes a more robust device to serve
as replacement for the ship's engine driven
power source . . . i.e. top off a partially
discharged battery while hangared.

The more robust arrays need some form of
electronics to keep their full-sun performance
from beating up an already full-charge battery.


Bob . . .


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Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 2
Location: India

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Battery Reply with quote

chargers like this $3.25 module that I have observed to be more

precise and reliable than the air conditioner fueled Schumacher chargers for lead

corrosive VRLA batteries.� These are not unregulated stream chargers but rather

Or maybe multi-mode enhanced chargers that hold fast to best functional

charging conventions. The Maximum Power Point Following (MPPT) input lets the

input voltage and power remain ideal for power transfer.� Just for a

couple of dollars conveyed.

eBay thing 183558004137

It would appear that this specific one works with a sun-based contribution of 6 to 18

volts. There are unquestionably some shabby reasonable choices accessible for the

Do-It-Yourselfer.� Much more are accessible for Lithium batteries.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Quote:

eBay thing 183558004137

It would appear that this specific one works with a sun-based contribution of 6 to 18

volts. There are unquestionably some shabby reasonable choices accessible for the

Do-It-Yourselfer.� Much more are accessible for Lithium batteries.

These do look intereseting . . . I've got
some on order.



Bob . . .


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echristley(at)att.net
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:32 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Consider the following in conjunction with the charge controller. I'm limited to day-VFR, and my bladder keeps my flying legs down to 2 hours. My running current draw is somewhere down around 10 amps. With a couple of these plastered to the top of my wings, and a battery appropriately sized for a couple hours of runtime, would I EVER run out of electrons before fuel? At around $110, these would definitely be cheaper than a mechanical electron pusher. Without relays and crowbars, et. al., I would expect the wiring to be MUCH simpler. The weight is quoted as "less than 5 lbs", so lighter than all but the smallest of generators (?).
This would be a major departure from years of lessons learned in the aircraft community, but. . .

WindyNation 100 Watt 12V Flexible Solar Panel with Monocrystalline Solar Cells | eBay
<![endif]--><![endif]-->$114.99
<![endif]-->WindyNation 100 Watt 12V Flexible Solar Panel with Monocrystalline Solar...
WindyNation 1 00Watt (12 volt) Flexible Monocyrstalline Solar Panel with Monocrystalline Solar Cells. WindyNatio...

On Monday, January 28, 2019, 3:05:17 PM EST, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:




Quote:

eBay thing 183558004137

It would appear that this specific one works with a sun-based contribution of 6 to 18

volts. There are unquestionably some shabby reasonable choices accessible for the

Do-It-Yourselfer.� Much more are accessible for Lithium batteries.

These do look intereseting . . . I've got
some on order.



Bob . . .


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