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PASS-THROUGH CHARGER
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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub...  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it  back up...  Well, you get the idea!!!
I would like to hook up a battery, connect it to the planes power source, have a means of turning On & Off the battery and turn On & Off the RPi [that is easy a DPST switch] and CHARGE the battery while it is being used to power the RPi.
Would anyone know of a PASS-THROUGH charging circuit that would accomplish this?
My idea is also to use a larger battery.  Something like a 12 AH / 12 VDC Battery with a step-down voltage regulator for 5.2 VDC (at) 2.1 Amps.  That should give me a current source of about 27 AH and 75 Hours of operation...  Not counting re-charging.  Wink
The voltage regulator has to be very well regulated in both ripple and constant 5.2 VDC, the RPi is a bit sensitive on those things.  Especially the voltage.  I know it does not  like a low voltage at all.


Thanks Electron Chasers,
Barry 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Can you skip the battery and power the RPi directly from the aircraft?
Less weight, simpler installation.

I have had an RPi setup in this manner in my aircraft for a few years
now, also for ADS-B In.

Curious, what are you using for WX (weather)? I am assuming this is
something different from the weather available via ADS-B since you have
a separate antenna for it. Would love to learn about alternatives! Smile

Thanks,

-Dj

On 10/03/2018 02:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Quote:
I would like to hook up a battery, connect it to the planes power
source, have a means of turning On & Off the battery and turn On & Off
the RPi [that is easy a DPST switch] and CHARGE the battery while it is
being used to power the RPi.


--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Currently Flying: Glastar
Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

DJ:
The RPi requires 5 VDC so it  can not be powered directly from a plane's system, there has to  be something to  get it down to 5 VDC.
The WX is from UAT on 978 MHz (ADS-B) , that is why the second antenna.
You probably have the same type system.  
I'm thinking of combing both antennas in the same package and mount it outside. <-- Don't know how as yet.  Size is an issue.
Barry


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.


Can you share a schematic of your present power
supply and associated conditioning?

The RPi schematics I've seen all call
for the legacy 5.0v, digital logic supply
and the largest power draw I saw for the
basic Pi board was about 0.7A.

There's a host of 5v output step-down converters
that should let you run the 5v system directly
from a feeder off the ship's bus . . . no
battery needed.



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

By "direct", I mean not trying to charge a battery then have the battery
run the RPi. That eliminates the complication of the charger, dual
switches, extra wiring and weight.

I'm using one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01511SZYK

I have a switch on the panel that controls 12v going to that unit, with
that unit plugged directly into the RPi.

I built a Stratux system using the instructions from http://stratux.me/
with parts listed under the "Parts List, Dual Band" section. Both
antennas mount on the Stratux box itself. It is mounted in my tail
section but since my aircraft is fiberglass I don't need to mount the
antennas outside. It is a nice compact setup.

They do offer a suction cup option for sticking the entire thing to a
window if you have a metal airplane. I haven't tried it so I can't
offer a PIREP.

-Dj
On 10/03/2018 03:08 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
Quote:
The RPi requires 5 VDC so it  can not be powered directly from a plane's
system, there has to  be something to  get it down to 5 VDC.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

On 10/03/2018 03:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Quote:
the largest power draw I saw for the
basic Pi board was about 0.7A.

They recommend a 2.5 amp power supply for the latest models, if you are
going to be powering anything off the USB ports. A typical Stratux
(ADS-B setup) uses three of the USB ports, one for a GPS, and one for
each of two radio receivers, all getting power from the RPi.

-Dj

--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Currently Flying: Glastar
Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

At 02:45 PM 10/3/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>

On 10/03/2018 03:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> the largest power draw I saw for the
> basic Pi board was about 0.7A.

They recommend a 2.5 amp power supply for the latest models, if you are
going to be powering anything off the USB ports. A typical Stratux
(ADS-B setup) uses three of the USB ports, one for a GPS, and one for
each of two radio receivers, all getting power from the RPi.

Aha! good data . . . thanks



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Barry,

I have very good experience with Traco Power DC-DC converters, they come
in all kind of varieties, also high power once, they are clean and work
perfect since over 15 years in my plane

Mouser does sell them

Cheers Werner
Quote:

On 03.10.2018 21:08, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> DJ:
>
> The RPi requires 5 VDC so it  can not be powered directly from a
> plane's system, there has to  be something to  get it down to 5 VDC.



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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Bob:

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.
 

  Can you share a schematic of your present power
  supply and associated conditioning?

Barry - No schematic, it is just a battery.
  The RPi schematics I've seen all call
  for the legacy 5.0v, digital logic supply
  and the largest power draw I saw for the
  basic Pi board was about 0.7A.

Barry - 0.7Amps would work.  I’m guess at the 375 mA.

 The voltage range is 4.9 to 5.2 VDC.  So I want to be at the upper limit.
Quote:


  There's a host of 5v output step-down converters
  that should let you run the 5v system directly
  from a feeder off the ship's bus . . . no
  battery needed.

Barry - I want a battery as back up if I have to shut down the Master.  Also the iPad is independent on an internal battery.
That way I will have total backup and even portability.  I have a battery system for my Comm radio also.



Barry 
Quote:




  Bob . . .
 
 
 
 

 

 
--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.


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BMC_Dave



Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

I'm needing to do the same for my Stratux. Looking at these converters it seems they like to belt out the EMI. Have you had any issues with yours?

I found this one that's nice and sealed too:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WVLFYJH/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?pd_rd_i=B06WVLFYJH&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f52e26da-1287-4616-824b-efc564ff75a4&pf_rd_r=M3XWWYVBPFRG1XHN219V&pd_rd_wg=Z6c64&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=qoucR&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=427a9c19-c751-11e8-8c11-7fd735fac2a8&th=1


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

At 04:30 PM 10/3/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BMC_Dave" <bmcdave85(at)gmail.com>

I'm needing to do the same for my Stratux. Looking at these converters it seems they like to belt out the EMI. Have you had any issues with yours?

Unless and until a particular article is TESTED either
in the lab or in practice, any blanket assertions about
EMC are without foundation and may cause one to miss
an opportunity. It is true that many commercial, off the
shelf products are not particularly EMC friendly . . . in
aircraft or elsewhere.

Without running the traps in the EMC lab followed by verification
in the field, off-hand assertions are without foundation.

Given the very low cost of these products, the experiment
is not expensive. In this case, it's not risky either.

As a side note, I observe that the RPi designers seem
rather fond of the SMBJ5.0A transient suppressor as a
hedge against o.v. condition at the input terminals to
their product.

[img]cid:.0[/img]

This is a GROSS MISAPPLICATION of these devices. Specifications
for this device tell us . . .

[img]cid:.1[/img]


These devices BEGIN to conduct at 6.4 to 7.0 volts.
When subjected to fault currents up to an including the
device's peak power rating of 600W, they may clamp-off
the supply voltage at 9.2 volts or so.

The RPi will be toast at considerably less voltage. The Transorb
is designed to stand off fast rise, relatively short transient
events . . . not hard regulation failures in the input supply.
Further, the equipment they are intended to 'protect' must
stand off an over-shoot greater than or equal to the
clamping voltage of the protective device.

Virtually ALL of the commercial, off-the-shelf down-converter
products have a failure mode that includes application of
ship's bus voltage to the 5.0v output rail . . . with an
impressive peak fault current.

If anyone is interested in applying a COTS down-converter to
their RPi (or any other system with a 5.0v operating bus),
I can offer an ov protection system that far exceeds the
capability of the SMBJ5.0A transient suppressor.





Bob . . .


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BMC_Dave



Joined: 04 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Just going off people complaining about it interfering with their radios, figured I'd ask the guy who's actually using one in his airplane. Hopefully he'll chime in Smile

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

At 06:20 PM 10/3/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BMC_Dave" <bmcdave85(at)gmail.com>

Just going off people complaining about it interfering with their radios, figured I'd ask the guy who's actually using one in his airplane. Hopefully he'll chime in Smile


Good idea . . .



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

unless you have a touch screen and turn off the RPI via the touch screen, you need some kind of programmable power control. Just turning off the power to the unit risks corrupting the operating system.
One such programmable control is the Petrockblock Powerblock. There are others as well just do a search for Raspberry pi power control or power switch.   csmale(at)bak.rr.com (csmale(at)bak.rr.com)

On 10/03/2018 11:29 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.
I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.
It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.
The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.
At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.
Here is the frustrating part:
The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.
Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.
So, here is the rub...  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook it  back up...  Well, you get the idea!!!
I would like to hook up a battery, connect it to the planes power source, have a means of turning On & Off the battery and turn On & Off the RPi [that is easy a DPST switch] and CHARGE the battery while it is being used to power the RPi.
Would anyone know of a PASS-THROUGH charging circuit that would accomplish this?
My idea is also to use a larger battery.  Something like a 12 AH / 12 VDC Battery with a step-down voltage regulator for 5.2 VDC (at) 2.1 Amps.  That should give me a current source of about 27 AH and 75 Hours of operation...  Not counting re-charging.  Wink
The voltage regulator has to be very well regulated in both ripple and constant 5.2 VDC, the RPi is a bit sensitive on those things.  Especially the voltage.  I know it does not  like a low voltage at all.




Thanks Electron Chasers,
Barry 











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BMC_Dave



Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

csmale(at)bak.rr.com wrote:
unless you have a touch screen and turn off the RPI via the touch screen, you need some kind of programmable power control. Just turning off the power to the unit risks corrupting the operating system.
One such programmable control is the Petrockblock Powerblock. There are others as well just do a search for Raspberry pi power control or power switch.   csmale(at)bak.rr.com (csmale(at)bak.rr.com)



That's something I hadn't considered, and you're right. But there are a lot of Stratux users out there, myself included, who just plug in and unplug the unit when we need it. Hasn't been an issue, though I'm not saying it can't be. But I'll flash another SD card and keep it as a spare now, thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

The Stratux software has a web interface with a "shutdown" button.  I
have a shortcut on my iPad right next to the Foreflight icon which takes
me directly to that web page, and you can click shutdown and wait 30
seconds or so until you cut power.

However, I almost always forget to do that and haven't corrupted the SD
card on the RPi yet.  Probably a good idea to carry a spare SD card
already pre-programmed with the Stratux software in case it does happen
though.

-Dj
On 10/3/2018 7:50 PM, chris wrote:
Quote:
unless you have a touch screen and turn off the RPI via the touch
screen, you need some kind of programmable power control. Just turning
off the power to the unit risks corrupting the operating system.


--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Currently Flying: Glastar
Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

I am not aware of any interference from the one I am using
(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01511SZYK).

It is located in the tail section far away from my panel radios,
although I do have one COM antenna in the vertical stabilizer which is
about 3 feet behind where the power converter is mounted.

No noticeable interference.

For the cheap $12 price, give it a try and see how it works for you.

-Dj
On 10/3/2018 5:30 PM, BMC_Dave wrote:
Quote:
I'm needing to do the same for my Stratux. Looking at these converters it seems they like to belt out the EMI. Have you had any issues with yours?


--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Currently Flying: Glastar
Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B


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Eric Page



Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
If anyone is interested in applying a COTS down-converter to their RPi (or any other system with a 5.0v operating bus), I can offer an ov protection system that far exceeds the capability of the SMBJ5.0A transient suppressor.


Bob, I'd be interested to see your OV protection circuit. I don't have an immediate need for it, but it sounds like something useful to add to my toolbox. Thanks.

Eric


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Tundra10



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 92
Location: Scarborough, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

I once read a modification that changes the file system of the Stratux to read only, which mostly requires turning off logging. This will pretty much eliminate problems corrupting the file system by powering off without a shutdown.
I just use whatever cheap cigarette lighter 5V USB adapter is handy and unplug the Pi at the end of the flight. I have done this for probably 50 flights by now. None of the USB adapters has caused EMI problems.
When the file system gets corrupted, I will try the read only modification.

Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER Reply with quote

Same here except I don't even unplug it but just let it go on and off
with the battery master. I've had the original cobbled together stratux
for several years so I don't know if later versions are less tolerant or
I'm just lucky. Cheap USB adapters have been OK.  I suspect that since
we mostly hear from folks who have a problem, we tend to over estimate
how frequent the problems actually are.

Ken
On 04/10/2018 8:58 AM, Tundra10 wrote:
Quote:


I once read a modification that changes the file system of the Stratux to read only, which mostly requires turning off logging. This will pretty much eliminate problems corrupting the file system by powering off without a shutdown.
I just use whatever cheap cigarette lighter 5V USB adapter is handy and unplug the Pi at the end of the flight. I have done this for probably 50 flights by now. None of the USB adapters has caused EMI problems.
When the file system gets corrupted, I will try the read only modification.

Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10


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