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Y connections

 
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roughleg(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:30 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

Hi Pat,
I had much the same issues when I wired my BD-4C. I blogged about my splicing at the bottom of this article on my website: https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2016/07/19/physical-electrical-considerations-when-mounting-avionics/
I found that that worked pretty well for three wires.
You will find that technique more specifically written up at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html
Also try Googling "site:aeroelectric.com splice"
Cheers,
    -- Art Z.


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:58 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:08 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

I would recommend joining the two wires at the connection to the switch.
Anything else reduces reliability and complicates future maintenance and
upgrades.
Unnecessary inline splices can be a red flag for a possible future
purchaser.
Ken

On 09/08/2018 7:30 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
Quote:
Hi Pat,

I had much the same issues when I wired my BD-4C. I blogged about my
splicing at the bottom of this article on my website:
https://cheerfulcurmudgeon.com/2016/07/19/physical-electrical-considerations-when-mounting-avionics/
I found that that worked pretty well for three wires.

You will find that technique more specifically written up at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html

Also try Googling "site:aeroelectric.com <http://aeroelectric.com> splice"

Cheers,
-- Art Z.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:58 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com
<mailto:roughleg(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that
is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge
of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how
things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the
aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe
lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a
single switch I need to figure out the right components and
techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines.
It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining
two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little

--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/

/"We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."/


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glastar(at)gmx.net
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:48 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

You could as well go for a switch with a double set of contacts, they do
fit in the standard spacing of switches in my plane, no splicing and
less load on the contacts.

Cheers Werner
Quote:
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:58 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com
> <mailto:roughleg(at)gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that
>     is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge
>     of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how
>     things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the
>     aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe
>     lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a
>     single switch I need to figure out the right components and
>     techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines.
>     It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining
>     two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
>     Thanks,
>     Pat Little


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 687

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:11 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

Pat:
You DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that extra weight?
Yes, that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.  AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  
K.I.S.S.  M.E.


Barry


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little



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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

At 12:42 AM 8/9/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little


https://goo.gl/c85k64

https://goo.gl/FMCY9K

https://goo.gl/Lqhv2t

Any of the above techniques will do the job . . .



Bob . . .


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roughleg(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

Thanks Bob. I like the first one, PIDG-style, and the practical example at the bottom of that page looks like what I will be doing. I have to make an inline splice with 3 #20 wires. Appreciate the quick helpful response.
Pat
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 10:16 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 12:42 AM 8/9/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little


https://goo.gl/c85k64

https://goo.gl/FMCY9K

https://goo.gl/Lqhv2t

Any of the above techniques will do the job . . .



  Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

At 12:26 PM 8/9/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Thanks Bob. I like the first one, PIDG-style, and the practical example at the bottom of that page looks like what I will be doing. I have to make an inline splice with 3 #20 wires. Appreciate the quick helpful response.

You'll need a blue pidg splice for that one.

They taught us how to do that when I worked at Boeing
back in '61 . . .



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

I salvaged about a 10 pound rat's nest of wire that was a very small chunk of an airliner wiring harness. (There's an airliner recycler fairly close to me.) Several ounces of that 10 pounds consisted of crimp splices, fanning a single wire out to two, three,  and more wires. Boy, those airliner builders sure are careless, wasteful critters....

On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Pat:


You DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that extra weight?


Yes, that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.  AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  


K.I.S.S.  M.E.




Barry




On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

I like you're line of thinking Barry (and your sense of humor Wink
By running the supply wires from the switch, instead of inserting a Y somewhere downstream, I see that I have a fallback if a wire fails open circuit. Extending that logic to the possibility of a short in the wiring, would it then make sense to place circuit protection just downstream of the switch in each line? 
Pat

Quote:


On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Pat:


You DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that extra weight?


Yes, that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.  AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  


K.I.S.S.  M.E.




Barry




On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little




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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 687

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

Pat:

The old thought process is the fuse/CB only protects the wires.  That may be so for things like the avionics - the thought process on that is the protection device is not fast enough reacting to save the avionics.  
BUT!  That is now.  What about in the future?  What if a product comes out that will not only protect the wire but the avionics? Wouldn’t it be nice to already have your system wired and ready to accept the change?
Sticking with what already exists, wouldn’t you want to protect the switch as well?
What would happen if a short would happen BEHIND the circuit protection?  
Everything behind the protection would turn to smoke!
Protect what you can.
Design the best you can.
Build with the skills required.
Barry 

On Friday, August 10, 2018, Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I like you're line of thinking Barry (and your sense of humor Wink
By running the supply wires from the switch, instead of inserting a Y somewhere downstream, I see that I have a fallback if a wire fails open circuit. Extending that logic to the possibility of a short in the wiring, would it then make sense to place circuit protection just downstream of the switch in each line? 
Pat

Quote:


On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Pat:


You DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that extra weight?


Yes, that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.  AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  


K.I.S.S.  M.E.




Barry




On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little




Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#m_792930088833232346_m_595321410154492491_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]




--
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.


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kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

I have two wing tip strobes and two beacons. Each has a pos, neg and synch wire. I ran them all to a small terminal block with three studs to connect them.

Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 06:19 Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I like you're line of thinking Barry (and your sense of humor Wink
By running the supply wires from the switch, instead of inserting a Y somewhere downstream, I see that I have a fallback if a wire fails open circuit. Extending that logic to the possibility of a short in the wiring, would it then make sense to place circuit protection just downstream of the switch in each line? 
Pat

Quote:


On 8/9/2018 9:10 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Pat:


You DO NOT make a Y or a T connection.   You run separate wires directly to the switch.  OMG! All that extra wire?  All that extra weight?


Yes, that way the common failure point is the switch.  And if a wire should fail you still have power to the opposite side.  AND you are not doubling the current through a common wire.  


K.I.S.S.  M.E.




Barry




On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM Pat Little <roughleg(at)gmail.com (roughleg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I am starting to plan out the wiring for a Zenith STOL CH750 that is being built here in Missoula. I have a good working knowledge of electrical and electronic stuff, but am not familiar with how things are done in the aircraft world. The first part of the aircraft wiring I am thinking through is the wing tip strobe lights. Since both the left and right lights are controlled by a single switch I need to figure out the right components and techniques for making a Y connection for the supply voltage lines. It seems all the "splice" connectors I find online are for joining two wires, not three. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Pat Little




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

The old thought process is the fuse/CB only protects the wires. That may be so for things like the avionics - the thought process on that is the protection device is not fast enough reacting to save the avionics.

But from what risk? Can you hypothesize an avionics
failure that would benefit from fault protection
OUTSIDE the device?

BUT! That is now. What about in the future? What if a product comes out that will
not only protect the wire but the avionics? Wouldn't it be nice to already have your
system wired and ready to accept the change?

But who might design a 'new' device that is not already
independently immunized from known and quantified
external effects? DO-160, Mil-Std-704 and countless
commercial/industrial design guides strive for minimizing
the effects of external risks to system components and
appliances.

Sticking with what already exists, wouldn't you want to protect the switch as well?
What would happen if a short would happen BEHIND the circuit protection?
Everything behind the protection would turn to smoke!

Keep in mind that for over a century, airplanes (indeed
most vehicles) have been hauling around thousands of TONS
of circuit protection never called upon to do
its job: prevent a hard fault from (1) creating
an untenable risk and (2) preventing the effects of
a fault from propagating across multiple systems.

In nearly 60 years of driving and 50 years of working
on airplanes and flying them, I can count fuse blowing
events on the order of ten or less. Countless
fuses and breakers have gone to the scrap yard
never having been called upon to do its job.

While interesting to hypothesize about 'new' or
'future' challenges to low risk design, let us
not ignore the foundations on which the science
of our craft is based. The well of knowledge and
lessons-learned is rich and deep. I wouldn't
discourage anyone for searching a root cause
and preventing re-occurrence. But let's be
cautious about conjuring up prophylactics against
heretofore unknown demons.



Bob . . .


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 687

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject: Y connections Reply with quote

Huh!  I don’t know what point you are trying to make???

I see you like Mil Specs when you can warp them.
Wasn’t it you that proselytizes with dogma that fuses and CB’s do not protect the avionics, they protect the wires?
So, what is wrong about hoping that someone - hopefully not bogged down with Mil-Specs developed a faster acting CB?  
I just don't get the point you are trying to make?
I really try not to hypothesize, if you do too much of that one can convince the Millennium Generation that black is white.  Actually, that is not too hard to do!
Barry


On Friday, August 10, 2018, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
The old thought process is the fuse/CB only protects the wires.  That may be so for things like the avionics - the thought process on that is the protection device is not fast enough reacting to save the avionics.

  But from what risk?  Can you hypothesize an avionics
  failure that would benefit from fault protection
  OUTSIDE the device?

BUT!  That is now.  What about in the future?  What if a product comes out that will
not only protect the wire but the avionics? Wouldn't it be nice to already have your
system wired and ready to accept the change?

  But who might design a 'new' device that is not already
  independently immunized from known and quantified
  external effects? DO-160, Mil-Std-704 and countless
  commercial/industrial design guides strive for minimizing
  the effects of external risks to system components and
  appliances.

Sticking with what already exists, wouldn't you want to protect the switch as well?
What would happen if a short would happen BEHIND the circuit protection? 
Everything behind the protection would turn to smoke!

  Keep in mind that for over a century, airplanes (indeed
  most vehicles) have been hauling around thousands of TONS
  of circuit protection never called upon to do
  its job: prevent a hard fault from (1) creating
  an untenable risk and (2) preventing the effects of
  a fault from propagating across multiple systems.

  In nearly 60 years of driving and 50 years of working
  on airplanes and flying them, I can count fuse blowing
  events on the order of ten or less. Countless
  fuses and breakers have gone to the scrap yard
  never having been called upon to do its job.

  While interesting to hypothesize about 'new' or
  'future' challenges to low risk design, let us
  not ignore the foundations on which the science
  of our craft is based. The well of knowledge and
  lessons-learned is rich and deep. I wouldn't
  discourage anyone for searching a root cause
  and preventing re-occurrence. But let's be
  cautious about conjuring up prophylactics against
  heretofore unknown demons.
    


  Bob . . .


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