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Radio or Television Tower Buzz

 
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mike>bentley



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower.

Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?


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Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

What is happening is that the high power from the towers is exciting one
of the oscillators in one of your radios. What is most common,
especially with older 121.5 ELTs is for their transmit oscillator to be
activated by the high power RF from the towers, generating a weak white
noise signal that breaks squelch on your com radio. I used to have that
problem with a previous aircraft, where there are about 15 high power
towers on a mountain a few miles south of the Phoenix Class B and in
line with the VFR transition through the Class B. Communications with
approach control while flying that transition would become very
difficult. Newer 121.5 ELTs and 406 ELTs are better shielded for that.
Also, moving a com antenna from top of fuselage to belly can help
isolate the ELT from the com antenna.

On 5/20/2018 8:38 AM, mike>bentley wrote:
Quote:


When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower.

Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?

--------
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480245#480245











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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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mike>bentley



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

Thanks Kelli,

I have a 406mhz elt with the antenna mounted inside the fuselage and comm antenna mounted on top of the fuselage. The elt antenna is approximately 18" below and 12" forward of the comm antenna. The elt antenna is much easier to relocate than the comm. Would moving the elt antenna farther away help?


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Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

On 5/20/2018 10:33 AM, mike>bentley wrote:
Quote:


When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower.

Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?

--------
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body
Flying within 1/4 mile of a tower? My solution would be the He Haw (TV

show, for uninitiated) solution: 'If it hurts when you do that, don't do
that!' Especially in the case of towers, just don't do that.

Charlie
(Your issue is not an uncommon problem within a few miles of high power
transmitters, as someone else has said.)

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mike>bentley



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

We have several towers in the vicinity of our airport. It can be occasionally annoying depending on the direction you're going to or coming from.

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Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body
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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

Mike:
Very Interesting....
Our plane radios transmit and receive in AM.
TV video is AM while their audio is FM.
AM land based radio shows are at a frequency well, well below our aviation frequencies.
So...  Something else must be happening if you are receiving and Hearing Voices.
I can understand static and buzzing, just not the voices?
Start Simple and work up from their.  Simple:
Check the GROUNDS on your radios and antennas.  You CANNOT check Grounds by LQQKing at them.  You MUST open the connection, Clean the connection and replace or ADD (if missing) an Internal Star Washer, then Tighten the connection.
Getting a bit more complicated you can build a Band Pass Filter.  This would work if the interference was a few harmonics away from from our frequencies.
If you can:
Drive to the radio/TV stations and bring a Hand Held aviation radio and see if you can hear them when right next to them.
You - May even talk to the station engineer.  And as a last resort, report the station to the FCC. BUT Only if your test with the Hand Held proves true.
Barry


On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 11:33 AM, mike&gt;bentley <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com (mikeeeb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com (mikeeeb(at)gmail.com)>

When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower.

Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?

--------
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200  #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480244#480244






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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

I don't know if you would gain improvement or not, but generally I like
to have at least 2 ft between com antennas, more if I can get it. The
ELT is in same frequency spectrum as com, so interaction is mostly a
function of distance. Before doing anything, the easy test is to simply
disconnect the antenna cable from the ELT and go fly near the offending
towers. You will know right away if the problem is reduced or not. Your
com radio(s) may be interfered with independent of the ELT. Most
broadcast towers are close in frequency, either below or above the com
frequency band.

On 5/20/2018 9:15 AM, mike&gt;bentley wrote:
Quote:


Thanks Kelly,

I have a 406mhz elt with the antenna mounted inside the fuselage and comm antenna mounted on top of the fuselage. The elt antenna is approximately 18" below and 12" forward of the comm antenna. The elt antenna is much easier to relocate than the comm. Would moving the elt antenna farther away help?

--------
Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480249#480249











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KCHD
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

At 10:33 AM 5/20/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com>

When flying in the vicinity of radio or TV towers, I get a constant buzz or static over the radio. Sometimes I can hear the conversation or music from the station, but just barely. It seems to start when I'm within a 1/2 to 1/4 mile from a tower.

Anyone else have this type of issue or resolved this type of issue?

Seen this and similar situations many times
in the past. Powerful transmitters are strong
potential interference sources. Effects are
many and varied. Used to rent a Beech B77
at Mid Continent that would treat me to a
'buzz' in the headsets while awaiting clearance
at the south end of 1R. The hold pad was about 100 yards
from the ATC antenna dish. Every time the antenna
swept around, you'd hear a buzz-burst at the
PRF for the radar transmitter. Sometimes you
hear a similar buzz-burst from a transponder
reply when the antenna coax shield is broken
and the leakage is radiating the cabin.

Another rental a/p would drift off track
if my LOC intercept path took me past the
television stations antenna farm NW of
KICT. After passage, the a/p would recover
and correctly nail the intercept.

Those transmitters have really BIG radiated
power numbers . . . sometimes 200,000 watts.
Since the effects are inversely proportional
to square of distance from the source, they
usually go away if you're more than a couple
miles from the antenna.

Best fix . . . fly around it . . . or simply
be aware of it and turn the volume down until
you are past it.



Bob . . .


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mike>bentley



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

Thanks for the input everyone. My plane seems to be the only one this is happening to as I've flown the same route in everything from Cubs to Challenger 300's and no interference. I'll try what you all suggested and report back.

Thanks again.


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Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

At 10:05 AM 5/21/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com>

Thanks for the input everyone. My plane seems to be the only one this is happening to as I've flown the same route in everything from Cubs to Challenger 300's and no interference. I'll try what you all suggested and report back.

Interference of this type is not
a consistent manifestation. Characteristics
of the victim and propagation modes can
be significantly different even in
apparently identical aircraft.

The Hawkers had features in their annunciation
sensing and response systems that were grand-fathered
over from some rather arcane technology and design
philosophies. A polite way of suggesting every
ship had dozens of potential victims designed
to be problem children.

In spite of obvious vulnerabilities, the
percentage of problem children was relatively
low . . . but a pain in the what's-it to
fix . . . and every fix was a band-aid.
The fact that you're a solitary observer
of the problem cited is not unusual. Further,
fixing the problem COULD be time consuming
and expensive . . . been there and done
that on more than one program!

As long as the effects do not present a
safety of flight condition, I suggest
that further investigation is more
academic than practical . . . but we
would like to hear what you discover.



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:30 am    Post subject: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

An easy thing to check. I would get horrible feedback whenever I keyed my mic. One day I turned down the volume control on my headset (and up on the intercom for the same net volume), and the problem went away.
But, it's like Bob said. You're picking up interference on some part of the circuit and then it is getting amplified. The solution is chasing down and shielding/attenuating the interference from that ONE spot out of all the circuits. Like me, you'll probably find the solution by accident some day.

On Monday, May 21, 2018 11:07 AM, "mike>bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com> wrote:



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb(at)gmail.com (mikeeeb(at)gmail.com)>

Thanks for the input everyone. My plane seems to be the only one this is happening to as I've flown the same route in everything from Cubs to Challenger 300's and no interference. I'll try what you all suggested and report back.

Thanks again.

--------

Mike Bentley

Joplin, MO

N5498B

Kitfox Model 4-1200

Jabiru 2200 #438

Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads

Prince Prop (64 x 34)

Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body

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mike>bentley



Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: Radio or Television Tower Buzz Reply with quote

Just an update. I rechecked all the grounds; antenna, radio, etc., made a larger ground plane (as big as I could fit under the antenna with radius just shy of the length of antenna), and tried a different coax from radio to antenna. My long distance transmission and reception is slightly better but and may have improved the interference some but it is still there. It does seem to be a characteristic of the vertically mounted antenna. I'll keep you posted if I discover anything else.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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Mike Bentley
Joplin, MO
N5498B
Kitfox Model 4-1200
Jabiru 2200 #438
Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads
Prince Prop (64 x 34)
Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body
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