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Firewall Power Lug

 
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kearney



Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

Hi

I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS

What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least fire resistance.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Cheers

Les


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art(at)zemon.name
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

Why not just run your cable through a grommet in the firewall?

    -- Art Z.

Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.

On Wed, May 9, 2018, 10:02 PM kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

Hi

I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS

What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least fire resistance.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Cheers

Les


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1289
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

Not only is flammability a concern for the Amazon feed-through terminal, but it also appears that the plastic gets compressed as the bolt is tightened. Many plastics will flow over time, thus allowing the electrical connection to loosen. Might be OK if tightened at each annual. Some switches also fail that have plastic being compressed by current-conducting rivets.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

On 5/9/2018 9:49 PM, kearney wrote:
Quote:


Hi

I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS

What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least fire resistance.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Cheers

Les

Search for 'ceramic insulating washer', 'ceramic shoulder washer',

'alumina washer', etc.

You can roll your own pass through with a brass bolt & nut, a male
ceramic shoulder washer, and a ceramic flat washer. Here are examples of
what you need. *Not* the exact sizes (you'll need to decide that); just
examples of what they look like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8mm-10mm-14mm-20mm-OD-High-Temperature-Resistant-Male-Ceramic-Insulate-Washer-/232695504756?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10&var=532197640760

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15mm-OD-6mm-High-Round-Ceramic-Insulated-Washer-Fender-50-Pieces-Q5N9-/253489306817?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Charlie
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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

Charlie:
One thing I totally agree with Bob N. on is: Reduction of Failure Points.
Yes, using this type of feed-through would LQQK nice but you have created three (3) failure points: One at each end of the feed-through and the freed-through mounting itself.  Oh, wait, there are two (2) more potential failure points; The lugs that go to each end of the wires.
Why not a un-broken run of cable and a better type of feed-through?
I would look for a nice LQQKing feed-through fitting - Water Tight Fitting.
Something like this:
[url=https://www.grainger.com/product/2HYA5?cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!166591489617!!!g!81031653477!&ef_id=WuocMQAABn_Z5xGW:20180510175458:s]https://www.grainger.com/product/2HYA5?cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!166591489617!!!g!81031653477!&ef_id=WuocMQAABn_Z5xGW:20180510175458:s[/url]

They also come in S/S.
Barry
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

On 5/9/2018 9:49 PM, kearney wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

Hi

I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS

What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least fire resistance.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Cheers

Les

Search for 'ceramic insulating washer', 'ceramic shoulder washer', 'alumina washer', etc.

You can roll your own pass through with a brass bolt & nut, a male ceramic shoulder washer, and a ceramic flat washer. Here are examples of what you need. *Not* the exact sizes (you'll need to decide that); just examples of what they look like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8mm-10mm-14mm-20mm-OD-High-Temperature-Resistant-Male-Ceramic-Insulate-Washer-/232695504756?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10&var=532197640760

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15mm-OD-6mm-High-Round-Ceramic-Insulated-Washer-Fender-50-Pieces-Q5N9-/253489306817?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Charlie


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

I use the flanged stainless tube feed-through, with fire caulk & firesleeve, detailed in the 'Connection and elsewhere.

Since he asked specifically for a bulkhead feed-through for a 'fat' power wire, I assumed he had made his choice of method and I was trying to give him an idea that would work and be fire resistant. Your option has the same vulnerabilities to heat as the original linked article.

Charlie

On 5/10/2018 12:57 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Charlie:


One thing I totally agree with Bob N. on is: Reduction of Failure Points.
Yes, using this type of feed-through would LQQK nice but you have created three (3) failure points: One at each end of the feed-through and the freed-through mounting itself.  Oh, wait, there are two (2) more potential failure points; The lugs that go to each end of the wires.
Why not a un-broken run of cable and a better type of feed-through?


I would look for a nice LQQKing feed-through fitting - Water Tight Fitting.
Something like this:
https://www.grainger.com/product/2HYA5?cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!166591489617!!!g!81031653477!&ef_id=WuocMQAABn_Z5xGW:20180510175458:s



They also come in S/S.


Barry








On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

On 5/9/2018 9:49 PM, kearney wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

Hi

I am looking for a firewall power lug similar to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Firewall-Feed-Thru-Terminal-Connector/dp/B0038O2CIS

What I would like though is something that is also fireproof or at least fire resistance.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Cheers

Les

Search for 'ceramic insulating washer', 'ceramic shoulder washer', 'alumina washer', etc.

You can roll your own pass through with a brass bolt & nut, a male ceramic shoulder washer, and a ceramic flat washer. Here are examples of what you need. *Not* the exact sizes (you'll need to decide that); just examples of what they look like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8mm-10mm-14mm-20mm-OD-High-Temperature-Resistant-Male-Ceramic-Insulate-Washer-/232695504756?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10&var=532197640760

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15mm-OD-6mm-High-Round-Ceramic-Insulated-Washer-Fender-50-Pieces-Q5N9-/253489306817?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Charlie



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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

At 01:17 PM 5/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
I use the flanged stainless tube feed-through, with fire caulk & firesleeve, detailed in the 'Connection and elsewhere.

Here's a comic book I published a years back
illustrating the methodology used on Bonanza
and Baron aircraft at Beech.

https://goo.gl/9vLwXF

As far as I know, they still do it this way.
A good friend and colleague of many years
at Beech was a guy named Jack Thurman. He
was dungeon and rack master at "Thurman's
House of Horrors". The well worn admonition
concerning new ideas for bolting things
to Beech products was, "If Jack can't tear
it up, it's good to go on a Beechcraft."

One of Jack's more impressive toys was a
propane fired burner (suitable for burning
really BIG weeds) that would bathe a firewall
mock-up with 2000 DegF flames. It's a certainty
that Master of Mayhem Thurman sprinkled
holy water on the techniques described above.

At one time, members here on the list were
fabricating welded, stainless elbows with
flanges from the ends of COTS grab bars.
Cutting the ends of of something like this
would get you two elbows:

https://goo.gl/6Q4jkC

Unfortunately, these are pretty 'oversized'
for our tasks . . . and stick up off the
firewall quite a bit.

One could consider fabricating from pre-bent
elbows, a flange washer cut from stainless sheet
and a short nipple of stainless tube. If you've
got access to a talented TIG driver, you could
probably come up with some pretty nice parts
sized to the task.







Bob . . .


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kearney



Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

Hi

Thank you everyone for the replies. My application is only for a power stud so my preference is for something similar to what I originally posted.

I am sensitive to using plastics which is why I posted the query. I have heard that some commercial aircraft use studs of the type I am looking for. I just don't want the $$$ cost of "brand name aircraft parts".

Cheers

Les


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

Yes, Kearney;
Piper uses studs on their battery cables and battery box.
I curse them ALL the time!
You could always make your own with Phenolic Board and Brass Bolts.  You could also use a few nuts & bolts to hold the phenolic board in-place on the firewall and use the brass bolt & nuts to pass the power through.  It would be a much better structure than anything you could buy.  And cost you very little.  And structurally, extreamly sound and water tight.
It can be either single board or double board (both sides of the firewall).
Barry
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 7:25 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

Hi

Thank you everyone for the replies. My application is only for a power stud so my preference is for something similar to what I originally posted.

I am sensitive to using plastics which is why I posted the query. I have heard that some commercial aircraft use studs of the type I am looking for. I just don't want the $$$ cost of "brand name aircraft parts".

Cheers

Les




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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

BobI like these rather sophisticated through firewall fittings but they all look permanent. Super Cubs have swing out mounts to access the mags and other accessories on the back of the engine.
In spite of allowing extra length in cables some must be disconnected and others allowed to move in the firewall. I believe Piper used a rubber grommet for abrasion protection and then covered the whole area with a fireproof clay. It never gets hard and is easily replaced. I still get it at a commercial electrical supply. Any thought on this method?
Bernie
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2018, at 12:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 01:17 PM 5/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
I use the flanged stainless tube feed-through, with fire caulk & firesleeve, detailed in the 'Connection and elsewhere.

Here's a comic book I published a years back
illustrating the methodology used on Bonanza
and Baron aircraft at Beech.

https://goo.gl/9vLwXF

As far as I know, they still do it this way.
A good friend and colleague of many years
at Beech was a guy named Jack Thurman. He
was dungeon and rack master at "Thurman's
House of Horrors". The well worn admonition
concerning new ideas for bolting things
to Beech products was, "If Jack can't tear
it up, it's good to go on a Beechcraft."

One of Jack's more impressive toys was a
propane fired burner (suitable for burning
really BIG weeds) that would bathe a firewall
mock-up with 2000 DegF flames. It's a certainty
that Master of Mayhem Thurman sprinkled
holy water on the techniques described above.

At one time, members here on the list were
fabricating welded, stainless elbows with
flanges from the ends of COTS grab bars.
Cutting the ends of of something like this
would get you two elbows:

https://goo.gl/6Q4jkC

Unfortunately, these are pretty 'oversized'
for our tasks . . . and stick up off the
firewall quite a bit.

One could consider fabricating from pre-bent
elbows, a flange washer cut from stainless sheet
and a short nipple of stainless tube. If you've
got access to a talented TIG driver, you could
probably come up with some pretty nice parts
sized to the task.







Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:20 am    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

At 10:47 PM 5/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Bob
I like these rather sophisticated through firewall fittings but they all look permanent. Super Cubs have swing out mounts to access the mags and other accessories on the back of the engine.
In spite of allowing extra length in cables some must be disconnected and others allowed to move in the firewall. I believe Piper used a rubber grommet for abrasion protection and then covered the whole area with a fireproof clay. It never gets hard and is easily replaced. I still get it at a commercial electrical supply. Any thought on this method?

One of the venerable ancestors and gurus of
OBAM aviation, Tony Bingelis, described a technique
for fabricating grommet shields over firewall
penetrations.

https://goo.gl/1e84NX

This was 'the way' to raise the lowly rubber
grommet's rank to guardian of the cockpit
by first shielding as much of the grommet's
expose rubber as practical and finally,
molding a bit of fire-putty around the wire
or control cable thus covering the gap in the shield.

I think ACS and other sources offer pre-fabricated
shields . . .

Jack Thurman would, I'm sure, approve . . .



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Firewall Power Lug Reply with quote

With all due respect to Tony, he overbuilt his dies.
Place a section of thin stainless about the size of the palm of your hand on a scrap of soft wood. A scrap of pine 2x4 will suffice. Place a larger size socket on it and whack it once good and hard with a good size hammer. For a pretty job, you'll want to make two, and cut them off-center, then attach so that they overlap. If you're not worried about appearance, cut one, install so that they overlap, and don't worry about the center not being circular. The same silicon used for cowl baffling can be used as a fire-barrier and is not as messy as clays and assorted goops. Just cut a circle with a hole in it that will fit inside the depression.

On Friday, May 11, 2018 9:21 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



At 10:47 PM 5/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Bob
I like these rather sophisticated through firewall fittings but they all look permanent. Super Cubs have swing out mounts to access the mags and other accessories on the back of the engine.
In spite of allowing extra length in cables some must be disconnected and others allowed to move in the firewall. I believe Piper used a rubber grommet for abrasion protection and then covered the whole area with a fireproof clay. It never gets hard and is easily replaced. I still get it at a commercial electrical supply. Any thought on this method?

One of the venerable ancestors and gurus of
OBAM aviation, Tony Bingelis, described a technique
for fabricating grommet shields over firewall
penetrations.

https://goo.gl/1e84NX

This was 'the way' to raise the lowly rubber
grommet's rank to guardian of the cockpit
by first shielding as much of the grommet's
expose rubber as practical and finally,
molding a bit of fire-putty around the wire
or control cable thus covering the gap in the shield.

I think ACS and other sources offer pre-fabricated
shields . . .

Jack Thurman would, I'm sure, approve . . .


Bob . . .


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