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PVC vs Nylon Connectors
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art(at)zemon.name
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

My Cessna has lots of (as far as I know) original PVC insulated crimps.

On Apr 28, 2018, at 10:36, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel






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cluros(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:04 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Good timing Art!

In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.
http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9

My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel





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bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

My understanding is that the nylon is good in the engine compartment...the PVC not so much

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 4:52 PM Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:

Quote:

My Cessna has lots of (as far as I know) original PVC insulated crimps.

On Apr 28, 2018, at 10:36, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but.. I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel







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ron228rj(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.
Ron

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 10:42 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

Quote:
Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel





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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Quote:


On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?


I would invite the readers to review this article I
posted a few years back that reviews the legacy
design goals and properties of materials for what
was then, a "mil spec'd" style of solderless wire
termination:

https://goo.gl/Fq95MU

Major features in the PIDG style connectors are
the terminal body (part that grips strands of wire),
insulator (provides some protection of the assembly
and helps identify the terminal by its color) and
a thin, metallic sleeve inside the insulator that
is formed down against the termnial barrel -AND-
insulation of the mated wire to provide insulation
support for resistance to breakage under vibration.

Here's the TE_Connectivity/AMP drawing for a PIDG

https://goo.gl/66QGz4

here's the same size terminal in Plasti-Grip

https://goo.gl/ZQaKRV

Without insulation support, the strands are at-risk
for vibration fatigue and separation. Here'a
an interesting work-around.

[img]cid:.0[/img]

This Electronic Ignition, dual feed, diode isolated
distribution bus has multiple connections just waiting
to fail.


[img]cid:.1[/img]

This view shows four, plasti-grip terminals
that were either (1) improperly applied or
(2) had already regained their as-manufactured
shape due to temperature cycling. This was
a 'hands off' inspection of the wreckage
so I was unable examine more closely.

[img]cid:.2[/img]


Here's an example of lapses in craftsmanship for a breaker/bus-bar
assembly salvaged from a vintage Piper. We cannot know the time-in-
service for the variety of terminations seen here, but the PIDG
terminals demonstrate a decided advantage over the Plasti-Grip.

[img]cid:.3[/img][/b]

At 09:54 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Good timing Art!

In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9

My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.

I was unable to get the video to load. I would really
like to see the document on FAA paper that suggests
interchangeability for the PIDG vs Plasti-Grip.
I would be surprised that any movement across technologies
recommended/mandated by the FAA would translate 'downward'.

Butt splices in runs of wire tied to wire bundles can
be spliced with much less expense (and physical bulk
to the bundle) with this technique:

https://goo.gl/FMCY9K

Having offered all the above, I will close with the
notion that a Plasti-Grip splice tied into a wire
bundle is at VERY LOW RISK for lost of conductors
due to vibration because of the support offered by
OTHER wires in the bundle. But be wary of non-PIDG
terminations for wires taken to studs and tabe.

[/b]
Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.

Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the
any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips
under the plastic?



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:58 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Here too. Thanks for saying something. I'm all set now.

    -- Art Z.

Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 11:17 AM Ron Springer <ron228rj(at)gmail.com (ron228rj(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.
Ron

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 10:42 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

Quote:
Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel






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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Nope!

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 12:57 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.

  Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the
  any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips
  under the plastic?



  Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

At 12:04 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

Quote:
Nope!

Well then . . . there you go . . .



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years I’ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others. My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation. I’ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp. They’re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places.
Bernie
Quote:
On Apr 28, 2018, at 6:54 AM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Good timing Art!
In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9

My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

-- Art Z.

-- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel







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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Bob,
That second picture looks like the crimps were improperly applied, with no insulation crimp at all. Even the most highbrow PIDG terminal won’t help if you don’t put it on properly.

On Apr 28, 2018, at 13:22, Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years I’ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others. My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation. I’ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp. They’re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places.
Bernie
Quote:
On Apr 28, 2018, at 6:54 AM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Good timing Art!
In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9

My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

-- Art Z.

-- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel







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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

At 12:37 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Bob,

That second picture looks like the crimps were improperly applied, with no insulation crimp at all. Even the most highbrow PIDG terminal won’t help if you don’t put it on properly.

You may be correct . . . on both counts. I didn't
have the time or charter to investigate this airplane's
condition in all respects. I was to focus
on the chain of events that killed the engine.

Anecdotal observations of lapses in craftsmanship
were numerous.


Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

At 12:22 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years I’ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others. My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation. I’ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp. They’re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places.

Yes, the heat-shrink, pre-insulated butt
splices are a special breed of cat. I've
messed with 'em here and been impressed
of their value . . . with reservations.

[img]cid:.0[/img]

None of my rachet-handled tools produced
adequate crimps on 22AWG wire for a RED
splice. Doubling the stranding back helps
a lot. I ultimately settled on my legacy,
hardware-store crimp too . . . put as much
'mash' on it as you can with your bare
hands.

Play with them a bit . . . do a pull test
on a sample installation. You should find
it difficult to part the splice with your
bare hands . . . and it's always good if
the wire 'breaks' as opposed to "pulls out"
at the grip.


Of course you only crimp the wire-grip. The
plastic jacket will look pretty beat up after
the crimps . . . but smooth nicely at the time
of shrinking . . . as see above.

The jacket become quite rigid . . . and the
products I tested also featured dual wall
shrink . . . in internal layer of melting
sealant.


Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:52 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.

  Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the
  any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips
  under the plastic?


​​
​Bob,
The Tyco connectors that I found have a metal sleeve, an adhesive layer, and a plastic insulating layer. Crimp then heat to melt the adhesive and shrink the insulation. The size is just right for the pigtails on my landing lights and the wires in the harnesses that i built for the wings​. I think that these connectors will be a good solution for this particular application.

Cheers,
    -- Art Z.​

--
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

There is a smaller size of insulated crimp than the red ones, they’re yellow, and for 22-26 gauge wire. I’ve never seen them in the flesh, and tooling appears to be scarce and pensive, but I believe they exist.
Then there are the “environmental butt splices” with the uninsulste copper core and the slide over heat-shrink sleeves, from $Raychem$.

On Apr 28, 2018, at 16:33, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
At 12:22 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years I’ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others. My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation. I’ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp. They’re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places.

Yes, the heat-shrink, pre-insulated butt
splices are a special breed of cat. I've
messed with 'em here and been impressed
of their value . . . with reservations.

[img]cid:.0[/img]

None of my rachet-handled tools produced
adequate crimps on 22AWG wire for a RED
splice. Doubling the stranding back helps
a lot. I ultimately settled on my legacy,
hardware-store crimp too . . . put as much
'mash' on it as you can with your bare
hands.

Play with them a bit . . . do a pull test
on a sample installation. You should find
it difficult to part the splice with your
bare hands . . . and it's always good if
the wire 'breaks' as opposed to "pulls out"
at the grip.


Of course you only crimp the wire-grip. The
plastic jacket will look pretty beat up after
the crimps . . . but smooth nicely at the time
of shrinking . . . as see above.

The jacket become quite rigid . . . and the
products I tested also featured dual wall
shrink . . . in internal layer of melting
sealant.


Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Hi Art:
The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . .  Goes back to PVC jacketed wire.  
You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes.
I almost said that PVC is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen crazy things done like a PRT!  
Not that a PRT is crazy just that they used PVC.
So, the reason why NOT is:  Very Caustic Fumes are produced when the PVC Burns.
The answer to that is:  Don't crash!


Barry
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 
Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?
This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel





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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

Barry,

A randomly selected list for your perusal:
http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_hookup_wire.pdf

On the subject of Very Caustic Fumes: Close yourself up in a closet & burn some Tefzel insulation. Report back (if able).

Charlie
Wink

On 4/28/2018 7:06 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

Quote:
Hi Art:


The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . .  Goes back to PVC jacketed wire.  
You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes.
I almost said that PVC is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen crazy things done like a PRT!  
Not that a PRT is crazy just that they used PVC.
So, the reason why NOT is:  Very Caustic Fumes are produced when the PVC Burns.


The answer to that is:  Don't crash!




Barry






On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,


I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 


Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?


This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?


    -- Art Z.


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel









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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

At 04:55 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
There is a smaller size of insulated crimp than the red ones, they’re yellow, and for 22-26 gauge wire. I’ve never seen them in the flesh, and tooling appears to be scarce and pensive, but I believe they exist.

Yes they do, here's one example.

https://goo.gl/bEKHco

Even have a t-head tool that I'd make someone
a really good deal on. Needed it for one
task about 15 years ago.




Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors Reply with quote

The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . . Goes back to PVC jacketed wire.
You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes. I almost said that PVC
is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen crazy things done like a PRT! Not that a PRT
is crazy just that they used PVC. So, the reason why NOT is: Very Caustic Fumes are
produced when the PVC Burns.

All the times I worked in Cessna factories (62-
69) the single and twin lines were wired with
Mil-W-16878 type BN wire. Nylon jacket over PVC.

The wire is still made and can be used to repair
said airplanes as it is the same material as called
out on the airplane's type certificate.

This was the first step up from varnish over cotton
over rubber that wired the first electrical systems
in the C140, C170, et. als. The spec number escapes
me at the moment but that wire too is still made
and can be used to repair an airplane that calls
it out on the drawings.

Tefzel (and some close cousins like Raychem's Spec
55) were just starting to be pitched in Wichita
about 1982 . . . I recall discussions at Lear concerning
upgrading to these new, higher temperature, more
chemically resistant insulations. The 22759 wire
was export controlled so we were leaning toward
Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license
and Teflon became the insulation of choice.

I don't know where that PVC toxicity meme originated.
I don't recall discussing it at Lear . . . the big
whoop for Tefzel was the wider operating temperature
range and lighter weight. To be sure, Tefzel smoke
is not from Marlboro Country! Our major concern from
the airframe perspective was flame characteristics.
Would it self extinguish and was it free of tendencies
to drop flaming balls of molten plastic.

Tefzel was really good in that regard, PVC not
so much . . . Nonetheless, nylon over PVC was the
wire of choice in tens of thousands of Wichita
airframes and I suspect as many more elsewhere.




Bob . . .


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