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Charging Issue

 
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davedup10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

I completed my RV-10 in July of 2015. I also have a Plane Power 60A main alternator and a 30A alternator as the back up. And I am having the exact same symtoms. Plane Power tells me I should be getting 14.3 to 14.5 volts on the main and slightly less than that on the backup alternator. Should the main alternator output drop below that of the backup, the backup will take over. Fact is The main puts out 13.4V to 13.6V  and the back running by itself puts out about the same. Running both together might get me 13.7V. I bought a new 60A alternator and it did the same. I had both the new and the old tested at a starter/alternator shop and they tested to Plane Power specs at 14.5V. My power distribution system is a modified Bob Knuckles Z-13-8 System. I have noticed there are other RV-10 owners having the same issue. I am David Duperron  616-485-5555. 

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:29 AM, mhealydds <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mhealydds" <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)>

I have an RV-10 that is about one year and one half old and have had a charging issue for at least a year of it. I have a Plane Power 60 amp alternator (and back-up Plane Power 30 amp alternator) with a Advanced Quick Panel System.  Here is east has been going on....
1. My primary alternator never get adequate charge. It hovers around 12.5 to 12.8 volts, sometimes to 13.2 or so, but never above 14 volts.
2. The primary alternator makes an whine when on.
3. The primary alternator shuts off intermittently (I see Amps of down and whine goes off) and then will come back on on its own later or sometimes will when I reset field switch.
4. I can sometimes get full charge (14.2) on ground with only some of avionics on (one EFIS, nav/strobes only).
5. My secondary alternator does not do all this. It works indicated.

Here is what I have tried and checked...
1. Checked and adjusted belt tension on alternator.
2. Added alternator filter.
3. Checked continuity and tightness on all connections.
4. Changed and checked alternator ANL fuse.
5. Got completely new alternator and replaced it.
6. Changed terminal plug on alternator.
7. Been on phone with plane power numerous times and ruined through trouble shooting and can't seem to find and issue with alternator itself.
8. Have not had alternator checked but since I have two alternators doing same thing and both are basically new, I doubt that is the case, but possible.
9. Volt reading on EFIS and multimeter at AFS middle same and same on both EFISs

Any thoughts on what else to check or fix. I feel like I am missing something obvious. The plane with run with with the 12.8 or so volts but that is not what it should be. Could it be AFS module  (they don't thing so at AFS), battery, do I need larger gauge wire (I have 8 now). I just don't know know anymore and and stuck on my true amateur status.




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

How and where are y'all measuring the voltage?

To begin troubleshooting, I'd get a decent digital voltmeter, and make up a couple of long clip leads. Clip the negative directly to the battery's negative terminal, and start testing with the positive directly on the alternator's B-lead. Crank the engine & check voltage. If normal, shut down, move the positive 'downstream' to the next joint, and repeat. Be sure to check every transition; for instance, the B-lead location should be checked on the stud itself, then on the ring terminal that's crimped to the wire, then, if possible, on the end of the wire itself. Then move on to the next joint.

Charlie

On 4/7/2018 7:15 PM, David Duperron wrote:

Quote:
I completed my RV-10 in July of 2015. I also have a Plane Power 60A main alternator and a 30A alternator as the back up. And I am having the exact same symtoms. Plane Power tells me I should be getting 14.3 to 14.5 volts on the main and slightly less than that on the backup alternator. Should the main alternator output drop below that of the backup, the backup will take over. Fact is The main puts out 13.4V to 13.6V  and the back running by itself puts out about the same. Running both together might get me 13.7V. I bought a new 60A alternator and it did the same. I had both the new and the old tested at a starter/alternator shop and they tested to Plane Power specs at 14.5V. My power distribution system is a modified Bob Knuckles Z-13-8 System. I have noticed there are other RV-10 owners having the same issue. I am David Duperron  616-485-5555. 



On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:29 AM, mhealydds <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mhealydds" <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)>

I have an RV-10 that is about one year and one half old and have had a charging issue for at least a year of it. I have a Plane Power 60 amp alternator (and back-up Plane Power 30 amp alternator) with a Advanced Quick Panel System.  Here is east has been going on....
1. My primary alternator never get adequate charge. It hovers around 12.5 to 12.8 volts, sometimes to 13.2 or so, but never above 14 volts.
2. The primary alternator makes an whine when on.
3. The primary alternator shuts off intermittently (I see Amps of down and whine goes off) and then will come back on on its own later or sometimes will when I reset field switch.
4. I can sometimes get full charge (14.2) on ground with only some of avionics on (one EFIS, nav/strobes only).
5. My secondary alternator does not do all this. It works indicated.

Here is what I have tried and checked...
1. Checked and adjusted belt tension on alternator.
2. Added alternator filter.
3. Checked continuity and tightness on all connections.
4. Changed and checked alternator ANL fuse.
5. Got completely new alternator and replaced it.
6. Changed terminal plug on alternator.
7. Been on phone with plane power numerous times and ruined through trouble shooting and can't seem to find and issue with alternator itself.
8. Have not had alternator checked but since I have two alternators doing same thing and both are basically new, I doubt that is the case, but possible.
9. Volt reading on EFIS and multimeter at AFS middle same and same on both EFISs

Any thoughts on what else to check or fix. I feel like I am missing something obvious. The plane with run with with the 12.8 or so volts but that is not what it should be. Could it be AFS module  (they don't thing so at AFS), battery, do I need larger gauge wire (I have 8 now). I just don't know know anymore and and stuck on my true amateur status.



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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1330
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Measure the main alternator field current and tell us what it is.
_
Is there an ammeter installed? If so, what does the ammeter say?
_
Where is the shunt located electrically speaking? Does it measure battery current or alternator current or aircraft load current?
_
The vast majority of electrical problems are due to bad connections. Check every connection in the alternator circuit.
_
Have you verified that your voltmeter is accurate?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Have you determined the output voltage at the alternator, vs what you
see at the bus? I have the same 60 amp alternator on my RV-10, and
consistently see 14.3-14.5 on my Dynon EMS system. I'm suspecting you
have some resistance somewhere in the system that is decreasing your
voltage. I don't know if you have a voltage drop across your shunt (more
than the infinitesimal amount used to measure amps)? You say you changed
the ANL fuse. You need to know if there is any voltage drop across any
of the circuit between alternator and bus.
Does the lead from the alternator to wherever the first connection is
show 0.0 ohms? How about the rest of the way to your bus?

On 4/7/2018 5:15 PM, David Duperron wrote:
Quote:
I completed my RV-10 in July of 2015. I also have a Plane Power 60A main
alternator and a 30A alternator as the back up. And I am having the
exact same symtoms. Plane Power tells me I should be getting 14.3 to
14.5 volts on the main and slightly less than that on the backup
alternator. Should the main alternator output drop below that of the
backup, the backup will take over. Fact is The main puts out 13.4V to
13.6V  and the back running by itself puts out about the same. Running
both together might get me 13.7V. I bought a new 60A alternator and it
did the same. I had both the new and the old tested at a
starter/alternator shop and they tested to Plane Power specs at 14.5V.
My power distribution system is a modified Bob Knuckles Z-13-8 System. I
have noticed there are other RV-10 owners having the same issue. I am
David Duperron  616-485-5555.


On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:29 AM, mhealydds <mhealydds(at)gmail.com
<mailto:mhealydds(at)gmail.com>> wrote:


<mhealydds(at)gmail.com <mailto:mhealydds(at)gmail.com>>

I have an RV-10 that is about one year and one half old and have had
a charging issue for at least a year of it. I have a Plane Power 60
amp alternator (and back-up Plane Power 30 amp alternator) with a
Advanced Quick Panel System.  Here is east has been going on....
1. My primary alternator never get adequate charge. It hovers around
12.5 to 12.8 volts, sometimes to 13.2 or so, but never above 14 volts.
2. The primary alternator makes an whine when on.
3. The primary alternator shuts off intermittently (I see Amps of
down and whine goes off) and then will come back on on its own later
or sometimes will when I reset field switch.
4. I can sometimes get full charge (14.2) on ground with only some
of avionics on (one EFIS, nav/strobes only).
5. My secondary alternator does not do all this. It works indicated.

Here is what I have tried and checked...
1. Checked and adjusted belt tension on alternator.
2. Added alternator filter.
3. Checked continuity and tightness on all connections.
4. Changed and checked alternator ANL fuse.
5. Got completely new alternator and replaced it.
6. Changed terminal plug on alternator.
7. Been on phone with plane power numerous times and ruined through
trouble shooting and can't seem to find and issue with alternator
itself.
8. Have not had alternator checked but since I have two alternators
doing same thing and both are basically new, I doubt that is the
case, but possible.
9. Volt reading on EFIS and multimeter at AFS middle same and same
on both EFISs

Any thoughts on what else to check or fix. I feel like I am missing
something obvious. The plane with run with with the 12.8 or so volts
but that is not what it should be. Could it be AFS module  (they
don't thing so at AFS), battery, do I need larger gauge wire (I have
8 now). I just don't know know anymore and and stuck on my true
amateur status.




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478108#478108
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478108#478108>






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====================================






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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

At 07:15 PM 4/7/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
I completed my RV-10 in July of 2015. I also have a Plane Power 60A main alternator and a 30A alternator as the back up. And I am having the exact same symtoms. Plane Power tells me I should be getting 14.3 to 14.5 volts on the main and slightly less than that on the backup alternator. Should the main alternator output drop below that of the backup, the backup will take over. Fact is The main puts out 13.4V to 13.6V and the back running by itself puts out about the same. Running both together might get me 13.7V. I bought a new 60A alternator and it did the same. I had both the new and the old tested at a starter/alternator shop and they tested to Plane Power specs at 14.5V. My power distribution system is a modified Bob Knuckles Z-13-8 System. I have noticed there are other RV-10 owners having the same issue. I am David Duperron 616-485-5555.

What size is the b-lead wiring from altenrator
to the bus . . . and where are you attaching
the b-lead feeder to the system? Just for
grins, try a temporary b-lead feeder directly
from alternator to the battery terminal of
the starter contactor . . . 6AWG or larger
is good.

The alternators in question SENSE 'bus
voltage' AT THE B-LEAD TERMINAL. Modern
internal regulators are quite accurate
and consistent.

As others have suggested, you first need
to know what the alternator's output voltage
is . . . given consistent results with two
alternators, odd are that the alternator
is fine and you're getting voltage drops
in the path between b-terminal and your
measurement point.

Virtually all the Z-figures show 4AWG feeders
from b-terminals via shortest path to the
power systems FAT wires. The reason for this
is to minimize losses in this high current
pathway . . . a good thing to do whether the
alternator is internally or externally
regulated.



Bob . . .


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:54 am    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

David:
I don't think it is you, or even Bob's circuit.  There have been issues with Plane Power.
1 - Look at the voltage regulator (ACU).  
2 - Check the resistance of the FIELD.
3 - Check the resistance of the wires going to the field.
4 - If all those check out the next thing is to verify the voltage coming out of the ACU.  If it is LOW the output of the ALT will be low.  You can FORCE it high by applying a remote Field Voltage.  This will increase the Output Voltage.
5 - I'm sure you know this by now - The ALT output should be 13.8 to 14.2 some say 14.5.  Well, the 0.3 V delta is extreamly minor.  What is important is the Minimum 13.8 VDC.
6 - Have you checked the accuracy of the meter you are using?  
7 - NOISE - Plane Power has had many reports of NOISE.  The easiest thing to do is put a nice big Electrolytic Capacitor across the output of the ALT.  I find a 25,000 uF (at) 16 VDC works.  You can go higher in both uF & VDC.  In this case Bigger Is Better.
Hope this helps,
Barry
 
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:15 PM, David Duperron <davedup10(at)gmail.com (davedup10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I completed my RV-10 in July of 2015. I also have a Plane Power 60A main alternator and a 30A alternator as the back up. And I am having the exact same symtoms. Plane Power tells me I should be getting 14.3 to 14.5 volts on the main and slightly less than that on the backup alternator. Should the main alternator output drop below that of the backup, the backup will take over. Fact is The main puts out 13.4V to 13.6V  and the back running by itself puts out about the same. Running both together might get me 13.7V. I bought a new 60A alternator and it did the same. I had both the new and the old tested at a starter/alternator shop and they tested to Plane Power specs at 14.5V. My power distribution system is a modified Bob Knuckles Z-13-8 System. I have noticed there are other RV-10 owners having the same issue. I am David Duperron  616-485-5555. 

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:29 AM, mhealydds <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mhealydds" <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)>

I have an RV-10 that is about one year and one half old and have had a charging issue for at least a year of it. I have a Plane Power 60 amp alternator (and back-up Plane Power 30 amp alternator) with a Advanced Quick Panel System.  Here is east has been going on....
1. My primary alternator never get adequate charge. It hovers around 12.5 to 12.8 volts, sometimes to 13.2 or so, but never above 14 volts.
2. The primary alternator makes an whine when on.
3. The primary alternator shuts off intermittently (I see Amps of down and whine goes off) and then will come back on on its own later or sometimes will when I reset field switch.
4. I can sometimes get full charge (14.2) on ground with only some of avionics on (one EFIS, nav/strobes only).
5. My secondary alternator does not do all this. It works indicated.

Here is what I have tried and checked...
1. Checked and adjusted belt tension on alternator.
2. Added alternator filter.
3. Checked continuity and tightness on all connections.
4. Changed and checked alternator ANL fuse.
5. Got completely new alternator and replaced it.
6. Changed terminal plug on alternator.
7. Been on phone with plane power numerous times and ruined through trouble shooting and can't seem to find and issue with alternator itself.
8. Have not had alternator checked but since I have two alternators doing same thing and both are basically new, I doubt that is the case, but possible.
9. Volt reading on EFIS and multimeter at AFS middle same and same on both EFISs

Any thoughts on what else to check or fix. I feel like I am missing something obvious. The plane with run with with the 12.8 or so volts but that is not what it should be. Could it be AFS module  (they don't thing so at AFS), battery, do I need larger gauge wire (I have 8 now). I just don't know know anymore and and stuck on my true amateur status.




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478108#478108






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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

At 07:53 AM 4/9/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
David:

I don't think it is you, or even Bob's circuit. There have been issues with Plane Power.

Can you point me to any discussions/narratives
on PlainPower products? Last I looked over their
product line, they were pretty much invested
in modifying stock automotive to accept external
control and ov protection while retaining the
built in regulator. Aside from manufacturing
errors, their business model seems to offer
little performance risk. I'd be interested to
know what kinds of problems builders are having
unique to Plane Power. Thanks.






Bob . . .


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Bob:
One of the sites that discussions took place on was BEACH TALK.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 07:53 AM 4/9/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
David:

I don't think it is you, or even Bob's circuit.  There have been issues with Plane Power.

  Can you point me to any discussions/narratives
  on PlainPower products? Last I looked over their
  product line, they were pretty much invested
  in modifying stock automotive to accept external
  control and ov protection while retaining the
  built in regulator.  Aside from manufacturing
  errors, their business model seems to offer
  little performance risk. I'd be interested to
  know what kinds of problems builders are having
  unique to Plane Power. Thanks.






  Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

At 08:20 PM 4/9/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Bob:

One of the sites that discussions took place on was BEACH TALK.

Barry

Beech Talk? The Beechcraft Owner's Association?
Do you recall the nature of issues discussed?



Bob . . .


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Yes, Bob and No, I do not recall.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 08:20 PM 4/9/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Bob:

One of the sites that discussions took place on was BEACH TALK.

Barry

 Beech Talk? The Beechcraft Owner's Association?
 Do you recall the nature of issues discussed?



  Bob . . .


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1330
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Here is link to a poll taken on Vansairforce about alternator failures:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=403
My interpretation of the poll results is that:
28 percent of Plane Power installations have failed prematurely.
20 percent of automotive installations have failed prematurely.
2 percent of B&C installations have failed prematurely.


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Thanks for the post Joe,
Barry
On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 11:15 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

Here is link to a poll taken on Vansairforce about alternator failures:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=403
My interpretation of the poll results is that:
28 percent of Plane Power installations have failed prematurely.
20 percent of automotive installations have failed prematurely.
2 percent of B&C installations have failed prematurely.

--------
Joe Gores




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rene(at)felker.com
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Not throwing stones…..but this is a very unscientific poll dating back to 2005.

My experience……2 automotive alternators failed in less than 250hr.  Can not remember how long each latested.  B&C 8 amp…..700 hrs and counting.  PP 70 amp, I think it has been about 400 hours and counting……

Rene'
801-721-6080

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 1:36 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Charging Issue

Thanks for the post Joe,



Barry

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 11:15 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

Here is link to a poll taken on Vansairforce about alternator failures:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=403
My interpretation of the poll results is that:
28 percent of Plane Power installations have failed prematurely.
20 percent of automotive installations have failed prematurely.
2 percent of B&C installations have failed prematurely.

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479225#479225
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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

How scientific do you want to get?
A failure is a failure!
And a failure ONLY hurts when YOU have to pull money out of YOUR pocket to fix it.
Or when it cost YOU time.
Barry
On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5:06 PM, Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Not throwing stones…..but this is a very unscientific poll dating back to 2005.
 
My experience……2 automotive alternators failed in less than 250hr.  Can not remember how long each latested.  B&C 8 amp…..700 hrs and counting.  PP 70 amp, I think it has been about 400 hours and counting……
 
Rene'
801-721-6080
 
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 1:36 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Charging Issue
 
Thanks for the post Joe,

 

Barry
 
On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 11:15 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

Here is link to a poll taken on Vansairforce about alternator failures:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=403
My interpretation of the poll results is that:
28 percent of Plane Power installations have failed prematurely.
20 percent of automotive installations have failed prematurely.
2 percent of B&C installations have failed prematurely.

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479225#479225
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rene(at)felker.com
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

It did not poll the population……only a slice of the population that just happened to see it on the site.  That is all I am saying.  Applying failure rates to a random set of installations may be misleading to some and implies a certain amount of certainty.  My experience lines up with the poll for the most part, but I am just one datapoint.

Rene'
801-721-6080

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:57 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Charging Issue

How scientific do you want to get?



A failure is a failure!



And a failure ONLY hurts when YOU have to pull money out of YOUR pocket to fix it.

Or when it cost YOU time.



Barry





On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 5:06 PM, Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Not throwing stones…..but this is a very unscientific poll dating back to 2005.

My experience……2 automotive alternators failed in less than 250hr. Can not remember how long each latested. B&C 8 amp…..700 hrs and counting. PP 70 amp, I think it has been about 400 hours and counting……

Rene'
801-721-6080

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 1:36 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Charging Issue

Thanks for the post Joe,



Barry

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 11:15 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

Here is link to a poll taken on Vansairforce about alternator failures:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=403
My interpretation of the poll results is that:
28 percent of Plane Power installations have failed prematurely.
20 percent of automotive installations have failed prematurely.
2 percent of B&C installations have failed prematurely.

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479225#479225
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mhealydds



Joined: 17 May 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Wichita, KS

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Charging Issue Reply with quote

I was the original poster and found my issue. I had a cracked firewall passthrough fitting (it was Blue Sea fitting a lot of other RV-10 user reported using). Anyway, it was in a spot not easy to inspect and never thought about it being cracked, just he connections on the fitting. Now a have a bad alternator noise I have thing to track down. Anyone dealt with that?

Matt


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nuckollsr



Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Medicine Lodge, KS

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Alternators are inherently 'noisy' . . . meaning that their
output voltage has about 1.5 volts pk-pk ripple on
it . . . an artifact of the 3-phase rectification system.
This noise CANNOT be filtered . . .

Appliances qualified to legacy aircraft design
goals don't care about that much noise on the
bus. If you're getting alternator noise in the headset,
more often than not, this is caused by a ground loop
in your system wiring. Review chapter 17 in the
'Connection and then go play the game of Clue
to see if you can deduce the propagation path
and specific victim.


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject: Charging Issue Reply with quote

Matt:
How is a crack in a feed-through causing a voltage drop?
If it was shorting out a CB would pop.

You did not give p/n so I do not know if it is a grommet feed through or a terminal type feed through.
If it was a grommet, that would also mean the insulation on the wire failed.
If it is a terminal type a simple thing like a poor connection could be causing the problem.  
Without seeing the setup I am assuming (I hate that word) that all  is well with:
Connections
Connectors 
Crimps
and  Materials.
RULE: You can not tell if there is corrosion on a connection unless you open the connection and clean the contact areas.  Also, replace the Lock Washers with Star Lock Washers. Replace them every time you undo the connection.  The lock washers have to cut into the faces of the mating surfaces.
Alternator Noise is fairly easy to solve.
I say 'fairly easy' because I do not know your wiring.
I use 25,000 uF (at) 16 WVDC Electrolytic Caps.  <-- Only because I have a box full of them and they work.  If you want to go bigger...  Have at it!  'It's all good baby!'
Positive to the hot lead.  Negative to Ground.
Put in very close to the B+ output of the Alternator.
Keep the leads as short as possible. 
Second location for the same size Cap.
At the ACU.  Between the 'A' lead [the lead coming from alternator B+ to the ACU].  
Again, keep the leads as short as possible.
DO NOT STRAIN THE WIRES.
Many alternators use a automotive looking/type Cap that has only one lead which goes to the B+ and the body of the Cap is mounted to  ground.  If you purchase this type of Cap from  the auto store. <--  The value is no where near that of the electrolytic.  It handles a different frequency.
1 - Make sure the mounting tab/clamp is WELDED to the body of the Cap.
2 - The mounting hole is a HOLE!  Not 'U' cutout.  
This makes mounting extremely easy and pretty much eliminates the Cap from coming  loose.
If you have access to a O Scope you can  hook it up to each of the wires:
B+
Field
Ground
And see exactly which wire is carrying the noise AND what frequency it is.
When even ONE diode in the alternators diode pack fails the noise becomes present.
If that is the case you will hear the noise change in frequency as the engine is increased and decreased in RPM.  It may even change in amplitude.
If that is what you are seeing (O Scope) and hearing (Headset), then the Caps will decrease the problem but NOT eliminate it.  Repair/Replace the alternator.
Barry


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:48 PM, mhealydds <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mhealydds" <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)>

I was the original poster and found my issue. I had a cracked firewall passthrough fitting (it was Blue Sea fitting a lot of other RV-10 user reported using). Anyway, it was in a spot not easy to inspect and never thought about it being cracked, just he connections on the fitting. Now a have a bad alternator noise I have thing to track down. Anyone dealt with that?

Matt




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479250#479250






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