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Defrost switch
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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos


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rnjcurtis(at)charter.net
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.  When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch.  Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.  If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos






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rene(at)felker.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

What thermostat are you using.  I think I would like to do the same thing.  I only have a switch and I am using Rene’ as the thermostat.

Rene'
801-721-6080


From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:03 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Defrost switch

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos


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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

Thanks Roger

My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.
Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos










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rnjcurtis(at)charter.net
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat.  It consists of a bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts.  I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by paralleling it with a switch.  What thermostat are you using?

Roger

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Defrost switch


Thanks Roger


My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.


Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos







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argoldman(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture. Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions. Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.

Keep cool (warm)

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

[quote] On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

Thanks Roger

My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.


Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> escreveu:

> Carlos,
>
> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan


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rene(at)felker.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

The air is heated by the electronics, the cabin heater, and the RV-10 tunnel heat.  Worked every time I needed it…..but I do live in a desert……

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A R Goldman
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:01 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Defrost switch

So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture. Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions. Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.


Keep cool (warm)



Rich
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:

Thanks Roger


My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.


Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos










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dan(at)syz.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

At the other end of the spectrum, I live in Canada, and did several flights this winter with temperatures in the -25C to -30C range. I have the same configuration - just a couple of computer fans mounted in the glare shield, whose purpose is to blow air from behind the instrument panel, where the air is heated from the instruments and cabin heat output by the feet.

I can say that at least in my case, it's worked perfectly. If the cabin is kept reasonably warm through cabin heat, which is what you'd want to do anyway, it doesn't have any problem keeping the windshield clear in my RV10. The only case where heated blown air might have helped is during runup and initial taxi before the engine has gotten warm enough to heat things up sufficiently. But when underway, the windshield has remained perfectly clear (not the same to be said of the side windows that didn't have the fans blowing on them - they tend to get quite icy in those conditions).

One thing working in my favour is our winters are typically exceptionally dry, so the humidity of the air is very low - with the exception of the humidity generated by the occupants.

Dan

Quote:
On 2018-Mar-09, at 7:05 PM, Rene Felker <rene(at)felker.com> wrote:

The air is heated by the electronics, the cabin heater, and the RV-10 tunnel heat. Worked every time I needed it…..but I do live in a desert……

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A R Goldman
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:01 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Defrost switch

So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture. Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions. Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.

Keep cool (warm)

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

> Thanks Roger
>
> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.
>
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
>
> No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> escreveu:
>
>> Carlos,
>>
>> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Carlos Trigo
>> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Defrost switch
>>
>>
>>
>> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
>> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.
>>
>> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
>> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>>
>> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
>> Do I have to use a diode?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:48 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

René

I am using the 12V version of a very cheap Chinese thing called XH-W3001
[img]cid:A34F7607-A424-41EB-9649-64FFC6E6FBA0[/img]
I have tested it with my fingers temperature and it works very well.
The only problem is that I cannot find its schematic and neither you or I can read the characteristics
[img]cid:03B4ED9E-DE13-48B3-879D-F7FB742DFF60[/img]

but mr. Google will show you plenty of videos in English explaining how it works and how you set the temperatures


Cheers
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:13, Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
What thermostat are you using. I think I would like to do the same thing. I only have a switch and I am using Rene’ as the thermostat.

Rene'
801-721-6080


From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 4:03 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Defrost switch

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos









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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

Roger

I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to René.
It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.
Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fear is what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat contactor is closed.
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:54, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat. It consists of a bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts. I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by paralleling it with a switch. What thermostat are you using?

Roger

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Defrost switch


Thanks Roger


My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.


Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos












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BobD



Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Sheffield UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: Defrost switch Reply with quote

argoldman(at)aol.com wrote:
So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture. Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions. Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.

Keep cool (warm)

Rich

Rich, I hate to disagree, but I have fitted three small computer fans in the top cowling of my Europa control panel. See attached photos. I have just completed the test flying of the aircraft, and these three fans kept the pilots side of the windscreen pretty clear, while my side (passenger/observer) was constantly misted up, and I was forever having to wipe the screen to clear it. This was in February weather in the UK (i.e. cold !), so I guess body heat was causing the condensation. Those familiar with the Europa will know that the control panel only stretches to three quarters the width of the cockpit, hence I wasn't able to position a fan for the passenger side, or I would have. As my panel is fully electronic, I guess the air being blown over the windscreen is partially heated by the output from the electronics.

Just as an aside, I changed the fan covers to brown (rather than white) having picked up a tip on here that using dark covers prevented/reduced reflections on the windscreen.

Just my tuppence worth Very Happy


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

As noted earlier, by another poster, you can google this device and get a manual and a youtube video.  It appears that the output is not just open relay contacts, but it supplies power, so don’t put a switch across it.  You could take the output to a 12V relay and then use the relay contacts, parallel with a toggle switch,  to turn on the fan, as I had suggested in a previous post.  There are other solutions, but this is a simple addition of a relay and a switch.

Roger

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:55 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Defrost switch


Roger


I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to René.



It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.

Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fear is what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat contactor is closed.



Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:54, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat. It consists of a bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts. I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by paralleling it with a switch. What thermostat are you using?

Roger

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Defrost switch


Thanks Roger


My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.


Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos










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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2726

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:37 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

I find no need or interest In a defrost switch or fan thermostat in my RV10. My opinion is that you will want the fan on all the time either way, so mine come on with the master. In the summer you’ll want to exhaust the heat from avionics as best you can, and in the winter you’ll want constant defrost. There is no reason to even put a switch on them. I prefer to have them come on with the master because it is the best reminder that you left the master on in the first place. On my first plane I did that. On my second I was temporarily hit with stupidity and did not have it on the right bus and ended up completely killing 2 batteries during the first year by forgetting to turn off the master during database maintenance on the EFISs’.
Once i killed the second battery I fixed that issue and now if I forget I have an audible reminder to turn off the darn switch and don’t forget anymore.
But really, there is no time you will ever not want fans. Think about it...do you EVER want hear buildup under the panel? Even in the winter my avionics need cooling because it’s well over 90F under the panel when the heat is turned on.
Keep it simple.
Tim

On Mar 10, 2018, at 7:56 AM, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> wrote:
Quote:

As noted earlier, by another poster, you can google this device and get a manual and a youtube video. It appears that the output is not just open relay contacts, but it supplies power, so don’t put a switch across it. You could take the output to a 12V relay and then use the relay contacts, parallel with a toggle switch, to turn on the fan, as I had suggested in a previous post. There are other solutions, but this is a simple addition of a relay and a switch.

Roger

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:55 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Defrost switch


Roger


I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to René.



It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.

Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fear is what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat contactor is closed.



Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:54, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat. It consists of a bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts. I am not aware of any thermostat that would be harmed by paralleling it with a switch. What thermostat are you using?

Roger

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Defrost switch


Thanks Roger


My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.


Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net (rnjcurtis(at)charter.net)> escreveu:
Quote:

Carlos,

Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.

Roger

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Carlos Trigo (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Defrost switch


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.

Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.

Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
Do I have to use a diode?

Thanks in advance
Carlos















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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2726

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

I agree Dan. In the RV10 just having two fans does fine for defrost. Flying at -10F this winter mine had no problem clearing the windshield. The side windows can be another story.

My first fans were very tiny...maybe 40mm fans and weak. Those didn’t work. Get some high volume 80-120mm fans and it will work well.
Make sure they and the fan grills are black. I even painted or removed the fan labels because ANY light coloring will reflect on the windscreen.

Tim

Quote:
On Mar 10, 2018, at 12:06 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:



At the other end of the spectrum, I live in Canada, and did several flights this winter with temperatures in the -25C to -30C range. I have the same configuration - just a couple of computer fans mounted in the glare shield, whose purpose is to blow air from behind the instrument panel, where the air is heated from the instruments and cabin heat output by the feet.

I can say that at least in my case, it's worked perfectly. If the cabin is kept reasonably warm through cabin heat, which is what you'd want to do anyway, it doesn't have any problem keeping the windshield clear in my RV10. The only case where heated blown air might have helped is during runup and initial taxi before the engine has gotten warm enough to heat things up sufficiently. But when underway, the windshield has remained perfectly clear (not the same to be said of the side windows that didn't have the fans blowing on them - they tend to get quite icy in those conditions).

One thing working in my favour is our winters are typically exceptionally dry, so the humidity of the air is very low - with the exception of the humidity generated by the occupants.

Dan

> On 2018-Mar-09, at 7:05 PM, Rene Felker <rene(at)felker.com> wrote:
>
> The air is heated by the electronics, the cabin heater, and the RV-10 tunnel heat. Worked every time I needed it…..but I do live in a desert……
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A R Goldman
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:01 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Defrost switch
>
> So the question that is begged is what will blowing ambient air on a frosted windscreen do. In your car the defrosted air is heated additionally the air conditioner compressor is activated (temperature permitting) to reduce moisture. Your body is constantly creating moisture ( primarily through respiration and sweating) this condenses on the inside of your windscreen under certain conditions. Unheated blown air will have little effect. It will have less effect on ice on the outside. Perhaps a small electric heater will help.
>
> Keep cool (warm)
>
> Rich
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Roger
>>
>> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.
>>
>>
>> Enviado do meu iPhone
>>
>> No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> escreveu:
>>
>>> Carlos,
>>>
>>> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel. When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost switch. Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off. If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: Carlos Trigo
>>> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
>>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: Defrost switch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
>>> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.
>>>
>>> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
>>> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>>>
>>> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
>>> Do I have to use a diode?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213







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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1163
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Defrost switch Reply with quote

Carlos,
Others have made a good point about leaving the fans run continuously. But if you want them switched, it should be safe to connect a switch in parallel with the relay contacts that are internal to the temperature controller.


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retasker



Joined: 31 Dec 2016
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

So use a DPDT switch.  Connect the two heater wires heater to the common contacts, the manual side contacts to +12V and ground and the other side to the two thermostat output wires.

If you have it on the manual setting you don't care what the thermostat wants and it's output is isolated.  Setting it to the other side lets the thermostat control the heater .

Dick Tasker

Carlos Trigo wrote:
Quote:
Roger

I am using the XH-W3001 that you can see in my previous post to René.

It has a small contactor (relay) which serves as the thermostat switch.
Again, if I parallel the manual defrost switch with the thermostat, my fear is what will happen when I turn on the manual switch when the thermostat contactor is closed.

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:54, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net <mailto:rnjcurtis(at)charter.net>> escreveu:

> A simple bimetal switch is all you need as a thermostat.  It consists of a bimetal strip which deforms as it is heated and closes the switch contacts.  I am not aware of any thermostat that would
> be harmed by paralleling it with a switch.  What thermostat are you using?
>
> Roger
>
> *From: *Carlos Trigo <mailto:trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
> *Sent: *Friday, March 9, 2018 6:27 PM
> *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Defrost switch
>
> Thanks Roger
>
> My only fear is (was?) that when I turn on the defrost switch, it would ruin something inside the thermostat.
>
> Enviado do meu iPhone
> No dia 09/03/2018, às 23:02, Roger <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net <mailto:rnjcurtis(at)charter.net>> escreveu:
>
> Carlos,
>
> Just wire the thermostat switch and the defrost switch in parallel.  When the electronics temperature is high the thermostat will turn on the fan, no matter the position of the defrost
> switch.  Also if you turn on the defrost switch the fan will stay on until you turn it off.  If you have two switches in parallel, either one or both on will power up the fan.
>
> Roger
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
> *From: *Carlos Trigo <mailto:trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>
> *Sent: *Friday, March 9, 2018 5:52 PM
> *To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
> *Subject: *Defrost switch
>
>
>
> In my RV-10 I installed 2 (computer type) cooler fans in the dashboard, with the main purpose of cooling the atmosphere behind the instrument panel to keep all the panel electronics happy.
>
> Those 2 fans get power through a thermostat, whose temperatures (to turn the fans on and off) can be set.
>
> Further to this electronics cooling function, and copying other fellow builders idea, this fans may also be used to defrost the windshield interior surface.
>
> But for this defrost function, I want to be able to turn On the fans independently of the thermostat, so I decided to put a switch for this.
>
> Now comes the question: how do I wire this switch in relation with the thermostat circuit?
>
> Do I have to use a diode?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
>


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retasker



Joined: 31 Dec 2016
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

The manual that you can access on Google specifically warns against this.

See my previous email.

Dick Tasker

user9253 wrote:
Quote:


Carlos,
Others have made a good point about leaving the fans run continuously. But if you want them switched, it should be safe to connect a switch in parallel with the relay contacts that are internal to the temperature controller.

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478551#478551




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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

It’s exactly that Joe

You covered my sudden access of stupidity...

Thanks
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 10/03/2018, às 14:30, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> escreveu:

Quote:


Carlos,
Others have made a good point about leaving the fans run continuously. But if you want them switched, it should be safe to connect a switch in parallel with the relay contacts that are internal to the temperature controller.

--------
Joe Gores




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478551#478551











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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1163
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Defrost switch Reply with quote

Dick Tasker, right you are. The manual warns against connecting power to the temperature controller output. At least I think it says that. It is hard to read Chinese. LOL Without having the controller circuit board in hand along with a schematic, an informed decision can not be made. Dick's suggestion about using a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch is the safe way to wire it.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Defrost switch Reply with quote

Ok, due to not knowing what is the thermostat circuit, I will go the DPDT
way, like it was suggested by Dick Tasker.

Thanks Dick, don't we know each other from the Subbie group?

Cheers
Carlos

-----Mensagem original-----
De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de user9253
Enviada: Sunday, March 11, 2018 3:06 AM
Para: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: Re: Defrost switch



Dick Tasker, right you are. The manual warns against connecting power to
the temperature controller output. At least I think it says that. It is
hard to read Chinese. LOL Without having the controller circuit board in
hand along with a schematic, an informed decision can not be made. Dick's
suggestion about using a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch is the safe
way to wire it.

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478572#478572


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