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Ground wire for LED lights

 
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gwgregory(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not? 


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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:59 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

Sounds fair enough

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 03/11/2017, às 23:29, gwgregory <gwgregory(at)comcast.net (gwgregory(at)comcast.net)> escreveu:
Quote:
I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2


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Peter(at)sportingaero.com
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:48 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even so, 4A for 18g over 25’ is on the edge of what the tables suggest is acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for how long will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled with the supply wires?

Peter

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gwgregory
Sent: 03 November 2017 23:29
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Ground wire for LED lights

I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?





Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:37 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire for
ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for audio
noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of effort to
accomplish very little. Are you really considering a separate ground
wire for each wing tip? I also think your load analysis makes no sense,
as each wingtip will have half of the load or less, not the whole load.
Your numbers do not match what I see on Aero LEDs web site for current
draw. I assume you are using the Pulsar NSP units with no separate tail
light. Aero LEDs offers 20AWG wire to power the nav/strobe lights. The
nav/strobe combos use #20 wire for ground coming out of the unit.
The landing lights are shown at 3.2 amps on their install pdf.
If it makes you feel better, I would use 20 AWG wire for the nav/strobe
units ground back to the central ground. I definitely would not run
ground of landing lights back to central ground, just ground locally.
Kelly

On 11/4/2017 5:46 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
Quote:
Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is
certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even
so, 4A for 18g over 25’ is on the edge of what the tables suggest is
acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for how long
will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled with the
supply wires?

Peter

*From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
*gwgregory
*Sent:* 03 November 2017 23:29
*To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Ground wire for LED lights

I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of
my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars
and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each
wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for
nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be
about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18
AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2



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Kelly McMullen
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KCHD
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yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:27 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

I ran #18 to the wingtips.
I wanted a spare wire in place anyway and thought it would be available
if needed as a ground in the meantime since I have strobe power packs
and wigwag halogens out there.
I can hear some noise from both those items with the engine off. That's
fine as it reminds me to turn them off and I can't hear them with the
engine running. Trying different ground paths including a local ground
did not seem to make a difference. A spare wire never hurts IMO. Maybe a
wingtip camera in the future, or there are now even options appearing
for wingtip mounted ADDS-B receivers.
Ken

On 03/11/2017 7:29 PM, gwgregory wrote:
Quote:
I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips
of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing
spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from
each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as
0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length
would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm
thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2


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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:40 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

Kelly

Quote:
From a long time we’ve been told by the experts that using a separate wire for ground, thus avoiding the ground path through the airplane structure, will certainly guarantee that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise.

Would you explain why this isn’t correct?

Thanks
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 04/11/2017, às 13:35, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> escreveu:

Quote:


My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire for ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for audio noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of effort to accomplish very little. Are you really considering a separate ground wire for each wing tip? I also think your load analysis makes no sense, as each wingtip will have half of the load or less, not the whole load.
Your numbers do not match what I see on Aero LEDs web site for current draw. I assume you are using the Pulsar NSP units with no separate tail light. Aero LEDs offers 20AWG wire to power the nav/strobe lights. The nav/strobe combos use #20 wire for ground coming out of the unit.
The landing lights are shown at 3.2 amps on their install pdf.
If it makes you feel better, I would use 20 AWG wire for the nav/strobe units ground back to the central ground. I definitely would not run ground of landing lights back to central ground, just ground locally.
Kelly

> On 11/4/2017 5:46 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
> Can you class the strobe load as intermittent? The current draw is certainly not a steady value, but the mean draw might be 1 or 1.5A? Even so, 4A for 18g over 25’ is on the edge of what the tables suggest is acceptable, 16AWG might be a better bet. How often, and for how long will you use the landing lights? Is this ground wire bundled with the supply wires?
> Peter
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *gwgregory
> *Sent:* 03 November 2017 23:29
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Ground wire for LED lights
> I am installing AeroLed nav/strobe and landing lights in the wingtips of my Kitfox. Rather than rely upon a ground path through the wing spars and fuselage structure, I plan to install a ground wire from each wingtip direct to my main ground point. The loads are listed as 0.5 for nav, 3.0 for strobe and 2.2 for landing lights. Wire length would be about 25 feet. Since the strobe load is intermittent, I'm thinking 18 AWG will be sufficient. Sound good, or not?
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® S2





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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

At 08:35 AM 11/4/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

My question is what do you expect to gain by using a separate wire for ground? I seriously doubt it will make a bit of difference for audio noise to your audio panel/com radio. Seems like a lot of effort to accomplish very little. Are you really considering a separate ground wire for each wing tip?

Agreed . . . I'd use airframe grounds if
available.



Bob . . .


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

At 09:38 AM 11/4/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt>

Kelly

>From a long time we’ve been told by the experts that using a separate wire for ground, thus avoiding the ground path through the airplane structure, will certainly guarantee that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise.

Would you explain why this isn’t correct?

Ground induced noises occur when potential
VICTIMS (radios, intercomm, etc) SHARE ground
pathways with potential ANTAGONISTS (alternators,
hydraulic pump motors, xenon strobes, etc.).

The easiest way to avoid the unwanted exchange
of energy is to build a 'ground wall' around
victims. This is what prompted the development
of the panel ground bus illustrated in the
in this document . . .

http://tinyurl.com/ycqp622u

This product is currently not in production
but it's easy to build one.




Bob . . .


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

What Bob said. Keep avionics grounds, especially audio grounds together,
grounded to single point. Use airframe for big current items and
resistive loads. That assumes that airframe is of a relatively
conductive metal...otherwise, airframes like composites obviously
require wire ground paths.
A few items that are known noise makers, like some varieties of HID
lights need special treatment, as well as xenon strobes, but both those
items are getting replaced in the market by LED.

On 11/4/2017 7:38 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:
Quote:


Kelly

>From a long time we’ve been told by the experts that using a separate wire for ground, thus avoiding the ground path through the airplane structure, will certainly guarantee that no ground loop occurs, thus avoiding audio noise.

Would you explain why this isn’t correct?

Thanks
Carlos



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rick(at)beebe.org
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To be
fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used the same
wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not obnoxious to
make it a priority.

--Rick

On 11/04/2017 04:23 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
Quote:

<kellym(at)aviating.com>

What Bob said. Keep avionics grounds, especially audio grounds together,
grounded to single point. Use airframe for big current items and
resistive loads. That assumes that airframe is of a relatively
conductive metal...otherwise, airframes like composites obviously
require wire ground paths.
A few items that are known noise makers, like some varieties of HID
lights need special treatment, as well as xenon strobes, but both those
items are getting replaced in the market by LED.


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

Interesting. My Aveo nav/strobe LEDs are perfectly quiet in my Bose A20s.

On 11/4/2017 8:03 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
Quote:


I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To be
fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used the same
wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not obnoxious to
make it a priority.

--Rick



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KCHD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject: Ground wire for LED lights Reply with quote

At 09:10 PM 11/4/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

Interesting. My Aveo nav/strobe LEDs are perfectly quiet in my Bose A20s.

On 11/4/2017 8:03 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rick Beebe <rick(at)beebe.org>
I agree, but fwiw I can hear my aeroled strobes in my headset. To be fair I could hear the Whelan strobe they replaced and I re-used the same wires. At some point I plan to investigate but it's not obnoxious to make it a priority.
--Rick

Running a noise problem to ground is a bit like
playing the board game Clue . . . you sift through
the features of your airplane's configuration
more to eliminate answers than to confirm them.
Sometimes the answers pop up immediately, maybe
not.

You already have an antagonist . . . and sorta
have a victim. Chapter 17 of the 'Connection

http://tinyurl.com/pt97pha

describes the 'rules of the game' for sifting
clues. Only after your victim and propagation
pathway are discovered are you ready to effect
a remedy.

But as long as the Z-15 guidelines for grounding
are observed, the remedy will not be found
lurking in a ground-loop.



Bob . . .


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