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Alt. drop out while pulling Gs...

 
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steve(at)tomasara.com
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... Reply with quote

Greetings all,

Here's an odd one...  My O235 powered Longeze use a vintage externally regulated 40A Toyota alternator paired with a no-name after-market "Ford-style" regulator. (see attached pic):
I've got it wired in the (Aeroelectric) traditional way with an overvoltage crowbar (visible in the picture) and a 5A breaker on the field winding.  Undervoltage is redundantly apparent via a traditional Westach voltmeter and A Perihilion low-voltage indicator.  All the wiring (which I have yet to re-inspect) has lots of strain-relief, all PIDG connectors etc.
Nonetheless, today I observed that when I pull high positive G's, the alternator drops out (low-voltage light illuminates, voltmeter shows ~12.5 volts or so) but no excess current was observed on load meter (I didn't *specifically* check  it so I might have missed the details here... But it is located adjacent to the voltmeter so I *might* have noticed something odd if present, or I might not have - remember, I was in the middle of pulling Gs...).  I've been flying it, as wired for years but haven't done much pulling Gs before so I don't know if this behavior is new or not...
Of course I'll be double checking connections etc. but I'm wondering if it's possible that the ford-style regulator I installed could be G sensitive?  I can't image it but thought I would ask...
Thanks for any insights!
Steve Stearns
Longeze N45FC
Boulder/Longmont CO


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... Reply with quote

At 06:52 PM 10/29/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
Greetings all,

Here's an odd one... My O235 powered Longeze use a vintage externally regulated 40A Toyota alternator paired with a no-name after-market "Ford-style" regulator. (see attached pic):

I've got it wired in the (Aeroelectric) traditional way with an overvoltage crowbar (visible in the picture) and a 5A breaker on the field winding. Undervoltage is redundantly apparent via a traditional Westach voltmeter and A Perihilion low-voltage indicator. All the wiring (which I have yet to re-inspect) has lots of strain-relief, all PIDG connectors etc.

Nonetheless, today I observed that when I pull high positive G's, the alternator drops out (low-voltage light illuminates, voltmeter shows ~12.5 volts or so) but no excess current was observed on load meter (I didn't *specifically* check it so I might have missed the details here... But it is located adjacent to the voltmeter so I *might* have noticed something odd if present, or I might not have - remember, I was in the middle of pulling Gs...). I've been flying it, as wired for years but haven't done much pulling Gs before so I don't know if this behavior is new or not...

Of course I'll be double checking connections etc. but I'm wondering if it's possible that the ford-style regulator I installed could be G sensitive? I can't image it but thought I would ask...

No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
against a slip ring with springs that don't
want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
soft carbon on soft copper.

If you could monitor output voltage from the
regulator's field terminal while duplicating
the event, I suspect you'll see regulator
voltage go UP while alternator output is going
down. I.e. the regulator may be screaming
at an alternator that isn't listening.



Bob . . .


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steve(at)tomasara.com
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... Reply with quote

Quote:
>Of course I'll be double checking connections
>etc. but I'm wondering if it's possible that the
>ford-style regulator I installed could be G
>sensitive?  I can't image it but thought I would ask...


 >No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
 >against a slip ring with springs that don't
 >want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
 >soft carbon on soft copper.
 >If you could monitor output voltage from the
 >regulator's field terminal...

Didn't expect that...  This sounds like a good excuse for me to buy an inexpensive stand-alone multi-channel data logger.  I assumed there would be many to choose from but a quick look on Amazon didn't turn one up.
Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Steve Stearns
Longeze N45FC
Boulder/Longmont CO


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1906
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... Reply with quote

This sounds like a good excuse to buy an EFIS with a data logger feature built in. Smile

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... Reply with quote

Quote:
 >No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
 >against a slip ring with springs that don't
 >want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
 >soft carbon on soft copper.

 >If you could monitor output voltage from the
 >regulator's field terminal...

Didn't expect that... This sounds like a good excuse for me to buy an inexpensive stand-alone multi-channel data logger. I assumed there would be many to choose from but a quick look on Amazon didn't turn one up.

Anyone have any recommendations?

Lots of products for monitoring temperature
and shipping shocks . . . I've not seen any
that would be very useful to the work we do.

That's what prompted this project a couple
of years ago now 99% ready for beta testing.

Hmmmm . . . Paul and I are putting the final
touches on the OBAM aircraft friendly data
logger I mentioned a few days ago. Maybe
you could be the 'beta test' project.

[img]cid:.0[/img]

[img]cid:.1[/img]

Here's what the proof of concept assembly
looks like. A very rudimentary configuration
would suffice to get a look-see on significant
parameters of your difficulty.

I am going to install one on my pickup truck
and just leave it in place to gather a constellation
of data . . . but no reason we couldn't use
it to get a peek at your airplane.



Bob . . .


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n233ee(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... Reply with quote

I would like to have a couple of stand alone data loggers. Do not need another ‘display’ or have room for one. Earl

[quote] On Oct 30, 2017, at 12:17 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

> Â >No, but alternator brushes are. They are held
> Â >against a slip ring with springs that don't
> Â >want to be too aggressive . . . they're relatively
> Â >soft carbon on soft copper.
>
> Â >If you could monitor output voltage from the
> Â >regulator's field terminal...
>
> Didn't expect that... This sounds like a good excuse for me to buy an inexpensive stand-alone multi-channel data logger. I assumed there would be many to choose from but a quick look on Amazon didn't turn one up


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steve(at)tomasara.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject: Alt. drop out while pulling Gs... Reply with quote

 Bob said:  Hmmmm . . . Paul and I are putting the final   touches on the OBAM aircraft friendly data   logger I mentioned a few days ago. Maybe   you could be the 'beta test' project.

I was thinking maybe a four channel "Hobo".  Btw,: I get the digest version of the forum so I can not look at attachments...  Nonetheless, I'm available to alpha or beta a new logger.  I hadn't been following that thread so I'll have to go back and read the background.  Consider me an experienced tester as I've done lots of development and have a lab etc.. 
Steve Stearns
Longeze N45FC
Boulder/Longmont CO


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