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ivowel(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: RV-10 landing characteristics |
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Although I am still trying to sell my Vans RV-10 (lack of time---I have
a toddler), I have decided that I will keep it if I don't get any nice
offers. (in case anyone is interested,
http://welch.econ.brown.edu/n325hp/; also, if you know someone else
who wants a flawless RV-10, please forward this).
Now, I am still flying once a month with it to familiarize myself with
it. Flight characteristics are wonderfully simple---as easy as a piper
cherokee, and this at 50% faster and with fuel consumption that is
fairly similar at comparable speeds. Vans make amazing airplanes.
Alas, I find that the ground handling, like any other nose-steerable
plain with wheels close together and castoring front-wheel (eg SR-22),
is less pleasant. I am a low-time 300 hour pilot (half in an RV-9), and
not flying often does not help.
So, I would love to ask some other RV-10 pilots what practices they
like best about landing. At 75 knots, the airplane seems in slow-flight
mode---behind the power curve. still very easily controllable, but not
as crisp as it is at 110 knots. When I land with *full* flaps, I also
think it is not as easily controllable (tends to be a little fidgety; it
wants
to jump up again; not a big deal) as when I land with 2/3 flaps. I presume
this means that I should land at slower speeds. What have others found
to be best (speed + flap setting; as function of weight, sidewind, etc)?
Aside, I find that an RV-10 lands nicer with a passenger than without one.
In fact, it is very easy to grease the landing *with* passenger and then
control it on the ground, but seems more difficult alone. Am I imagining
these characteristics, or do other RV-10 pilots have the same experience?
I was thinking about landing another 10 knots slower for easier ground
handling, but even though this is still about 20 knots above stall
speed, the fact that it is in slow flight makes me hesitate. Any other
pilot experiences would be appreciated.
FWIW, I would sacrifice 5 knots in flying speed for wheels further
apart, bigger, and perhaps front wheel steerable. If nothing else, it
would make soft-field landings safer. I wish Vans and Cirrus and
everyone else offered some options to improve ground handling---
wheels farther apart, a nose wheel that wants to stay straight even
in cross-wind landings, perhaps bigger tires or shock absorber. Has
anyone come up with something better than Vans?
Regards,
/iaw
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armywrights(at)adelphia.n
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: RV-10 landing characteristics |
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In short, slow down!
Well, initially you want to go back to basics. Many critical V speeds are
calculated at 1.2, 1.3 or so X Vso, so you really don't need to go 20-30
knots faster to approach to land. No wonder you're ballooning up. It must
take a lot of power to land that fast at full flaps as well. Then when you
round out the wing+flaps combo has so much camber that you've got one
awesome angle of attack going. The extra weight of a passenger is giving
you the slight advantage of helping the aircraft settle onto the runway, but
you're still developing too much lift.
Most folks you talk to use a rule of thumb of stall + 5 knots in calm winds,
stall + 10 knots in crosswinds or gusty winds. Do a little research in the
light to medium twins and you find yourself looking at VRef speeds. The one
I fly is Ref + 20 at partial flaps, then Ref +10 at full flaps, then Ref
across the threshold; Ref being the standard Stall + X as necessary for the
conditions.
I can't help you on the ground handling thing. No castering nosewheel
experience yet.
Rob Wright
#392
Starting QB Fuse...
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: RV-10 landing characteristics |
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Agree with Rob totally. I would add that I have found the approach angle with full flaps and 75 kts a bit steep with forward CG ("without Passenger"). In this instance, I use "1/2 Flaps" and touch down with up elevator and a flatter attitude. I believe that this behavior is normal in 4 seater planes.
I have also found that the castering nose wheel to be much easier to control that a steerable one. You don't have to stand on it to make tight turns and you almost do not have to use the breaks to stear. I have tried it on paved taxiways....using the rudder to steer.... and it works!
Do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Sep 25, 2006, at 7:00 PM, Rob Wright wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net (armywrights(at)adelphia.net)>
In short, slow down!
Well, initially you want to go back to basics. Many critical V speeds are
calculated at 1.2, 1.3 or so X Vso, so you really don't need to go 20-30
knots faster to approach to land. No wonder you're ballooning up. It must
take a lot of power to land that fast at full flaps as well. Then when you
round out the wing+flaps combo has so much camber that you've got one
awesome angle of attack going. The extra weight of a passenger is giving
you the slight advantage of helping the aircraft settle onto the runway, but
you're still developing too much lift.
Most folks you talk to use a rule of thumb of stall + 5 knots in calm winds,
stall + 10 knots in crosswinds or gusty winds. Do a little research in the
light to medium twins and you find yourself looking at VRef speeds. The one
I fly is Ref + 20 at partial flaps, then Ref +10 at full flaps, then Ref
across the threshold; Ref being the standard Stall + X as necessary for the
conditions.
I can't help you on the ground handling thing. No castering nosewheel
experience yet.
Rob Wright
#392
Starting QB Fuse...
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coop85(at)bellsouth.net
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: RV-10 landing characteristics |
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I can't say I've got a wealth of experience in my -10 yet, but after 45
hours here's what I have to offer. I approach around 80 kts, it's a little
faster than required (62 knot stall flaps up) but feels more comfortable at
first, crossing the threshold I'm down to around 70 knots. If I don't do
that than I have to accept a pretty long landing. I tried a full flap,
fairly slow landing and didn't like it as there was no energy left in the
airplane for a good flare. I fly with ballast in the baggage compartment
which I'm sure helps when solo. As you mentioned, it seems like full flaps
makes a good roundout difficult so I use 50% and it works great and as long
as I don't have too much speed on the airplane approaching the flare then
the landings are still very short.
As for the nosewheel steering, I haven't had any issued at all. Landing a
little slower probably won't help the ground control as the rudder is still
pretty effective, just be as attentive as possible and don't delay any
apparent need for a correction.
Just my $.02, don't know if it will help, I'm just glad to be flying!
Marcus
Do not archive
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Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: RV-10 landing characteristics |
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I fly my approaches at 70 Kts when calm and 75 when loaded or in heavy wind. What I have found is that it wants to float with only 10 degrees of flaps, but with full flaps there isn’t much flair at all. Castering nose wheel works great provided you have the breakout force set correctly. If it is too tight, you will need brakes to taxi. What I find is to taxi a little faster so the rudder is effective, then you don’t need to touch the brakes unless you have a 15 kts crosswind.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
N519RV
138 hours
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: RV-10 landing characteristics |
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Ditto on that from Ray.
Ray, you're doing pretty good. I'm at 141 hours, so you've
done a great job catching up!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
[quote] I fly my approaches at 70 Kts when calm and 75 when loaded
or in heavy wind. What I have found is that it wants to float with only
10 degrees of flaps, but with full flaps there isn’t much flair at all.
Castering nose wheel works great provided you have the breakout force
set correctly. If it is too tight, you will need brakes to taxi. What
I find is to taxi a little faster so the rudder is effective, then you
don’t need to touch the brakes unless you have a 15 kts crosswind.
Thank You
*Ray Doerr*
*N519RV*
138 hours
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