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JDelamarter(at)lycoming.t
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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To All:
I am new to the Matronics email list and would like to introduce myself. My
name is Jon A. Delamarter. I hold an A&P license and a degree in aircraft
maintenance from Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, OK). I have been
married for more than my adult life (since 19) and have the world's most
wonderful wife and the 4 most beautiful and intelligent daughters that God
ever created. (My dog's pretty smart too.) I have about 50 hours of dual
in my logbook but have not soloed due to a disagreement between me and Uncle
Sam regarding my medical. As a certified airplane freak and airport bum, I
might just hold some sort of record for "Most Types Flown Before Solo." I
am particularly proud of the fact that I have T-6 aerobatic instruction on
the first page of my logbook! My professional aviation career began upon
graduation from Spartan on December 17, 1999. In the short 6½ years since,
I have enjoyed an unbelievably rewarding life. With the blessings of loving
family support, an excellent education, and an absolute dedication to
excellence, I have experienced career satisfaction and growth that I could
not have imagined. If you love this business, it will be good to you! If
you don't love it, get out. If I have learned one thing thus far, it is
this: It's always about the people! I have no idea how many of you will
read this email, but I want you to know something. You aviation folks are
my family. I am proud and humbled to be part of you.
Having said all that, and at the risk of sounding crassly commercial, I'd
love to tell you folks about what I'm doing now. As of February 1st of this
year, it has been my privilege to serve as manager of Lycoming's brand-new
experimental hot-rod shop, Thunderbolt Engines. As you know, the absence of
Lycoming's direct participation in the past has not prevented the dominance
of our brand in the experimental market. We owe this not only to those
designers who build their aircraft around our engine, but also and perhaps
even more so, to the inherent reliability and simplicity of our engines.
The bottom line is that, although many of you are willing to experiment with
different aircraft designs and construction techniques, few have the desire
to step away from the known quantity of a Lycoming engine.
In recognition of this fact, Lycoming began a journey down a new road last
year with the introduction of the kit program. This program is responsible
for the influx of new experimental Lycoming based engines being sold by 6
shops across the country. With this move, Lycoming formally acknowledged
the credibility of the custom engine for the common man.
On April 5th of this year, at Sun-'n-Fun in Lakeland, FL, Lycoming made
public the next step in its journey by unveiling Thunderbolt Engines.
Thunderbolt Engines exists to provide homebuilders, race pilots, and
competition aerobatic pilots with a factory engineered, factory built,
factory supported, factory guaranteed custom engine. In the brief span of
time since the announcement, we have been pleased to learn that the first
reaction from most of our customers upon learning about Thunderbolt Engines
is shock followed immediately by excitement. The most common comments have
been something like, "I'm so glad you guys are finally doing this. I've
been waiting a long time and really didn't expect it to happen." After
recovering from their initial surprise, many builders have eagerly shared
their ideas and concepts for customizing our engines. There are a
significant number of builders who are willing to pay a fair price for a
factory experimental engine. This core group understands the importance of
supporting the customization process with proper and adequate engineering,
quality, assembly, and testing protocol. Thunderbolt Engines is housed in
the ATC (Advanced Technology Center) here at Lycoming. The ATC is still
under development and will eventually consist of four build cells, static
display areas, an aircraft integration laboratory, a customer/employee
training facility, and offices. Once completed, the ATC will be available
to you for tours and training. We are currently operational and are
delivering engines. The intent is to construct a state-of-the-art facility
that will demonstrate our commitment to CDTA, Customer Driven Technological
Advancement. In plain English, we are creating, through the ATC, a
knowledge pool. We encourage you to challenge us with your requests and
ideas. We are discovering that many of our customers know a lot about our
product. Through our involvement in the kit program, we have developed
relationships with individuals and companies that have successfully and
responsibly modified our engines for many years. Through our customer
satisfaction surveys, we are gaining accurate, real-time Voice of the
Customer (VOC) data. We have gained experience and customer exposure
through our support of Reno racing and competition aerobatics. In addition,
Lycoming has made significant additions to its engineering staff. These
folks come from various backgrounds and bring fresh perspective and skills
to the table. By leveraging the data gathered from all these resources,
(customers, kit shops, customer surveys, racing/aerobatics, engineering,
etc.), we are building the knowledge pool. This data not only accelerates
our development technically, it also allows us to focus on developing those
products that best fulfill the needs of the customer.
The development of a Thunderbolt engine begins and ends with the Voice of
the Customer. Many builders call us requesting pricing for a specific
engine. While we certainly provide that information, we also attempt to
glean as much information as possible regarding specific aircraft
application and desired performance. From that data, we are frequently able
to provide the builder with several options, some of which they may not have
known existed. Through this process, we accomplish two things. First, we
match the builder with a custom solution that best accomplishes their stated
goal. Secondly, and equally important, we demonstrate our commitment to the
customer's best interests, rather than pushing a particular product. Our
customers have expressed a great deal of satisfaction with this process and
have been quick to differentiate us from the competition in this regard.
Thunderbolt Engines are currently segregated into three series: Signature,
Extreme, and Competition. A Thunderbolt Signature Series Engine is
differentiated from a certified, production engine in several ways. Like
all Thunderbolt Engines, Signature Series engines are constructed in
dedicated build cells by two man teams. In addition to being team built,
Signature engines are internally balanced and will be configured to the
customer's exact specifications. Items that may be customized range from
major configuration changes such as crankcase or crankshaft to fuel systems,
ignition systems, sumps, induction components, and turbocharging. Customers
will also choose from appearance options such as engine color(s), chrome,
etc. Billet aluminum components such as the prototype rocker covers
displayed at Sun-'n-Fun are in development but not yet online.
Representative of this series would be the engine built last year for Mike
Melville, the world's first civilian astronaut. This engine was an
O-360-A4M configured for updraft cooling and incorporating an experimental
Ellison fuel system. Mike operates this engine in a Long-EZ. Thunderbolt
Signature Series engines will receive a 2-year warranty. This is a real
warranty with real value.
Thunderbolt Extreme Series engines incorporate all the features of the
Signature Series and continue to the next level in terms of performance
upgrades. These items may consist of mildly increased compression ratio or
boost levels, or other yet to be defined upgrades. Thunderbolt Extreme
Series engines will receive a reduced warranty, due to the expected types of
operational dynamics.
Thunderbolt Competition Series engines incorporate all the features of the
Signature and Extreme Series and continue to the maximum level of
performance. These upgrades may consist of dramatically increased
compression ratio or boost levels, water injection, and/or other yet to be
defined upgrades. Representative of this group would be the engines built
for Jon Sharp's Nemesis NXT and Mike Jones' Glasair III. Also
representative of this group would be the engine we just shipped to Extra
for the new Mike Goulian airplane. This engine is an AEIO-580-L1B5 with
very special cylinders, pistons, and sparkplugs. Once fully broken in, we
are expecting 340-350 hp (at) 2700 RPM and 11:1 compression. Walter Extra
reports unbelievable climb from an extremely smooth-running engine.
Competition Series engines will be limited to highly experienced pilots and
will require a signed agreement from the customer limiting his right to sell
or change ownership of the engine. Any such change would require Lycoming's
approval. The purpose of this constraint is to prevent the sale of a 340hp
AEIO-580 to a 40hr. Cessna driver! These engines are all out performance
machines, have no representation of reliability, and carry no warranty.
Okay, enough for the blurb. Let's get down to brass tacks. At not quite 32
years of age, I am smart enough to know that I'm still wet behind the ears!
I do not pretend to know everything there is to know about aircraft engines.
However, I absolutely believe in Lycoming Engines and stand ready to support
you in any way possible. I am here to serve as the conduit between you, the
builder, and the full support of Lycoming's able staff of engineers,
technicians, and support personnel. I want you to know that I share your
enthusiasm for our sport and that I hope for the opportunity to speak to
each of you. I will be at Arlington, Oshkosh, and Reno. Please drop by or
contact me with your questions and ideas. I will make every attempt to
answer your inquiry personally and in a timely fashion.
Sincerely,
Jon A. Delamarter
Thunderbolt Manager
Lycoming Engines
(570)327-7115
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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If you are going to start cross-posting this big ad to all the lists, at least put ADV in the subject line and add "do not archive" to the email. Geez. Most of the active vendors on the lists are considerate enough to keep the rhetoric to a minimum. Oh ya, and welcome!
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
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VHMUM(at)bigpond.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Bloody hell I could have finished the plane by the time I finished reading
this email!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris
Do not archive
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pascalreid(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Jon;
Certainly see your attention to detail! I quite appreciate the full
breakdown of Thunderbolt and your willingness to answer some questions. Two
that I have:
1)Website with all this info and with specifics to each engine?
2) Pricing for the engines, upgrades, modifications, etc...
Thanks!
Pascal
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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Touché' Michael but as he said in the opening line. It was to the entire Matronics email list. Only Matt knows just how big that is. I am just glad I am only subscribed to a half dozen sub-groups instead of the entire list of possibilities. The frightening thing is that this may now be the source of a quadrupling of spam that I have been receiving in just the last few weeks.
Now, will the first person who actually buys a Thunderbolt please speak up when they do it?
I find it corny that we will be able to call that one a "JUG" engine.
The Signature has a real warranty making all other Lycoming certified engines without any valid warrantee. Internal balancing tolerance is not specified on any of the three. I like Barrett's product even more now.
The Extreme has a mildly increased compression. Warrantee will be reduced .. now is that from the certified Lycosaurus which has a no value warrantee or from Extreme. Now that is good and vague.
And then they have to Competition which can only be purchased by Highly experienced pilots. Does that leave us 2,000 hour spam can pilots out in the cold? It was all too clearly just an ADVERTORIAL. And too boot, he never identified that he was a pilot, just a Spartan graduate.
John Cox - $00.02
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Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Well, you must have missed the good old days with James McClow!
TDT
40025
do not archive
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GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Jon, welcome and thanks for the Infomercial I'm sure you'll get a few
razzy's on the intro.
I hope your being here does not make you the Lycoming whipping boy when one
of them things comes unglued.
Our EAA chapter (240) has been in contact with Daria Fish and Dennis Racine
to do a tour at Williamport some time in the next couple of months. When do
you think you'll be operational?
Patrick Scott
EAA Chapter 240, President
eaa240.org
do not archive
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jdalton77(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Jon,
Awesome to have you here. Don't mind these crotchety old guys.
It's great to have an inside track to Lycoming on the board.
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Rick S.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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OK...since when is wet behind the ears a disqualifying medical condition??
lol....somebody mentioned James McClow....
Welcome and can we expect P-47 Thunderbolt technology or the A-1O Thunderbolt II technology?
Lycoming, it ain't your grandfathers tractor engine anymore, we got a rep!!
FWIW, I am using a IO-540....nice to see your company recognized the experimental market as a target of opportunity. Numbers from the much better building clone guys must have found their way the the Textron number crunchers, shoot we be losing money!!
Soap box returned to the closet..
Rick S.
40185
Finishing/fuse/wiring
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Rick S.
RV-10
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JDelamarter(at)lycoming.t
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:49 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Ok guys, I knew I'd take my licks from some of you. The fact remains that
I'm one of you and here to help you if I can, regardless of whether or not
you ever buy a Lycoming. To the guy who busted my chops for not declaring
myself to be a pilot, please note the first paragraph of my initial post.
The only reason I'm not a pilot is because I filled out the application for
my medical honestly. Uncle Sam didn't like it when I checked the box for
"Frequent Headaches." I'm not done, though. I am going to make another
attempt for my medical in a few months. To those of you who posted words of
encouragement, thank you.
Jon A. Delamarter
Thunderbolt Manager
Lycoming Engines
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Rick S.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Don't sweat it. While people don't like constant advertising,
and the whole Lyc. Crankshaft issue is kind of a negative,
one thing that is very appreciated by most people is a vendor
who's online, interested, and willing to help. If your
product is good, and your pricing is good, there's no reason
why your business can't be another valid participant in the
engine market....we can use all the supply we can get in
the IO-540 realm, just to keep the costs from becoming too
outrageous. Supply and demand....we're starting to get
the pinch from too much demand, too little supply.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Delamarter, Jon wrote:
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Ok guys, I knew I'd take my licks from some of you. The fact remains that
I'm one of you and here to help you if I can, regardless of whether or not
you ever buy a Lycoming. To the guy who busted my chops for not declaring
myself to be a pilot, please note the first paragraph of my initial post.
The only reason I'm not a pilot is because I filled out the application for
my medical honestly. Uncle Sam didn't like it when I checked the box for
"Frequent Headaches." I'm not done, though. I am going to make another
attempt for my medical in a few months. To those of you who posted words of
encouragement, thank you.
Jon A. Delamarter
Thunderbolt Manager
Lycoming Engines
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klwerner(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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To Jon,
I would like to get some insider information on when Lycoming is starting to promote this new line of engines with a 50%OFF introductory rate?
I do have my bank on speed dial and can have the money wired within about 5 minutes notice (but only during bank business hours of course).
do not archive ever
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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Jon, as one of the ole codgers, I am not going to apologize for my
earlier post. The mass mailing to the entire Matronics list was not as
personalized as I think you should have been to address the unique needs
of the RV-10 group, "Out of the Shoot". I discarded my eight other
repeat posts already. The RV-10 group is now the single largest economic
segment in all of world of experimental building. Thank Thunderbolt for
endorsing that clout.
However, that said ... Welcome aboard the RV-10 site. Don't make the
mistake of Jim Ayers with slamming the competition, vague innuendo or
bold non specific marketing claims. Give us the Beef right out of the
blocks - straight up. Aerosport and Barrett are doing a great job for
Lycoming on the products they deliver. #1 Identify to what gram weight
you balance each engine component. The factory Lycoming offerings leave
lots of room for improvement. #2 Identify the exact warrantee for each
of the three offerings. #3 Hit us with the exact technological
improvements under development and it will go a long way. #4 Give us a
way to get a unique price quote. #5 What about a FADEC system?
Sean Tucker speaks very highly of Lycoming and the job they did when his
crank hub separated in aerobatic flight. Clarify what constitutes a
"Competition Pilot" as to both experience and marketing clout for
Thunderbolt for the unique product for Lycoming/Thunderbolt.
I have always been a strong Lycoming advocate but feel to date, Barrett
has done the best job in my opinion of giving us the info "Straight Up".
I will look forward to seeing you at both Arlington in two weeks and
Oshkosh. I will take my licks "Eye to Eye". These are exciting times.
Good luck with your Medical. As Sean Tucker said to a question I posed
to my aviation group, "You know John, Those of us who choose to fly
professionally have one doctor who does the required Aviation Medical
and another who we bear our soles to and gets us through each day". To
that comment the four AMEs in the audience rioted. Learn the system.
Good luck when you begin the build process. I am actually thrilled you
are with us at this location. Your direct comments to the RV-10 group
will be appreciated.
John Cox - $00.02
Do not Archive
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Rick S.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas
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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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No I think Jon will be a valued asset to the group and don't want him
measuring the rest of you with my post. I will hold the line for
everyone when it comes to marketing. I want to see all builders
knowledgeable, safe, well informed and flying every tomorrow "Cause
today is already here". Lost my dad to cancer on Monday... it had
nothing to do with the ole codger post.
Most RV-10 builders are not in the least aware of what happened to all
the Lancair builders three and four years ago. Scores (like more than
60) of the kit builders were left in the endless insurance loop when a
rash of fatalities hit. Oh by the way, all the training in the world,
the efforts of Joe Bartel's and Pete Z.'s efforts have not abated the
number of continuing fatalities and claim settlements. Underwriters are
tougher than I am. They lumped all Lancairs builders/ pilots into a
high risk category because of the few. Insurance rates soared, many
dropped projects midstream, most could not get reasonable insurance for
several years. Couple that with Avgas pricing and the stupidity of
trying MOGAS in a Lycoming/Thunderbolt and you may sense my pain. And
this ole war wary Sergeant Major sees is a lot of green recruits going
into the fray blindsided just like before. I feel like James Cain or
John Wayne.
John - KUAO
Semper Paratus
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Rick S.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Lol...OK Sergeant Major, I just like how you keep us honest and informed. I think of you every time I see my bonafide, tried and true, close tolerance wing bolts holding my spacers in place between the spars instead of some sloppy fitting Lowes hardware bolt.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
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_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185 |
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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I agree with John's comments below and would like clarification on
another thing. Do you speak on behalf of Lycoming or as just an engine
builder same as the other six? If you say something about a Lycoming
engine or practice, will Lycoming back it up whether or not you sold the
engine? Many people are getting the impression you are a Lycoming rep
and I think that may be a bit of an over reach. Please clarify.
Based on some of your marketing material, along with the "competition"
engine restrictions, I have a feeling Textron's lawyers are watching
this endeavor very closely. Too bad they don't put those kind of
resources into improving the capabilities of a 60 year old engine design
rather than trying to cut in on the profit that their building partners
are making.
Not trying to bust your coconuts but whether or not you are backed by
Lycoming, Thunderbolt has a whole lot to prove and should not expect to
walk into the marketplace by throwing around that you ARE the engine
manufacturer. Right now I know the word of at least 4 of the other
shops are as good as gold and all I see is an off shoot of a Textron
company that hasn't had the best customer service and reliability
history.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against your participation here. I busted
Jim Ayers in the past for pumping the list for orders without any
substance and yet I will probably get my prop from him because he
straightened up and toned down the marketing BS. Many of the respected
players in the marketplace are at least monitoring this list, if not
active in it, but they will rarely toot their horn until requested. So
now that you have introduced yourself, let's see what you got.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
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EFDsteve(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
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Jon,
I can appreciate who you are and what you're doing, but as far as I'm concerned, my only question is what can you specifically do for the RV-10 builder? Right now, I can purchase an experimental 260 hp Lycoming XIO-540-D4A5 from Van's for $39,200, plus shipping.
What alternatives are you offering? The fact that Thunderbolt is an "experimental hot rod shop" doesn't mean much to me, because Van's has admonished their customers to avoid engines greater than 260 hp. Are you considering bringing back the 480 series, building it up to generate the 260 hp at a lighter weight, all while being more efficient so as to use less fuel? Or another clean-sheet design, where your new engineers with their updated knowledge base can come up with something more innovative than roller tappets or lightweight starters?
Seriously, what specifically is the Lycoming Thunderbolt team offering the RV-10 builder and at what cost?
Steve Weinstock
40230
In a message dated 6/23/2006 7:52:36 A.M. Central Standard Time, JDelamarter(at)lycoming.textron.com writes:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Delamarter, Jon" <JDelamarter(at)lycoming.textron.com>
Ok guys, I knew I'd take my licks from some of you. The fact remains that
I'm one of you and here to help you if I can, regardless of whether or not
you ever buy a Lycoming. To the guy who busted my chops for not declaring
myself to be a pilot, please note the first paragraph of my initial post.
The only reason I'm not a pilot is because I filled out the application for
my medical honestly. Uncle Sam didn't like it when I checked the box for
"Frequent Headaches." I'm not done, though. I am going to make another
attempt for my medical in a few months. To those of you who posted words of
encouragement, thank you.
Jon A. Delamarter
Thunderbolt Manager
Lycoming Engines
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I'll toss a question in real quick - fadec possible for the IO-540? I haven't heard much from anyone about this, but I'd really like to see one.
