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jland(at)popeandland.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

They’re all Raptor Bait now, so who cares??  Anybody else see the “hovering” F22 at SnF?

 

 

 From: "John W. Hilterman Jr." <johnhilterman1(at)cox.net>

 Reply-To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:51:36 -0500

 To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: RE: Re: BFM/ACM

 

 Until your AOA limiter kicks in and the Hornet goes nose on at 70 knots for the guns kill!

 Hitman

  

   

  

 From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email]owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Roger Kemp

 Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:00 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: BFM/ACM

  

 

 Vipers forever, everything else is a target!

 

 doc

 

  

 

  

 [quote]

 ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

Rule # 1 Speed is life!

 Rule #2  If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's attention. Questions, see rule #1.

 Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become someone's object of attention. See rule #1.

 Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun. 

 Doc

 



  

 [quote] ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

That is correct and I'm glad we have them. To bad they cost so much so we are lower the follow on buys!

 Probably gonna need them in the not so far future. But in the meantime, the Vipers, Hornets, Hogs, and Eagles have to carry the load. Oh for got about the subsonic players, the Buffs, Stink bugs (better known to me as wobbly goblins) and B2's. And of course the Bones get some credit also. 

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: Re: BFM/ACM

And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call the airlifters. Then there is always your constant need for gas......



By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb and you can also cook your own dinner and take a piss in the provided toilet and not in a zip lock bag.

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: BFM/ACM

Tim,

It is all part of the big picture! 

Happy Easter. Yourself, your family and especially your daughter are in our

prayers,

Doc



 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]

 From: Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50(at)msn.com>

 To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: 4/16/2006 7:32:04 AM

 Subject: Re: BFM/ACM



 



 And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call

the airlifters. Then there is always your constant need for gas......
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb

and you can also cook your own dinner and take a piss (and not in a zip
	


lock bag).

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28688#28688

aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: BFM/ACM

Oh, since we are all bowing out our chests, haha....



Here's a plug for the AWACS directed at all the fighter bubbas...



If we don't get up

You don't get off!  







smash



Roger Kemp <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:[quote]     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}    st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }        Rule # 1  Speed is life!

 Rule #2  If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's attention. Questions, see rule #1.

 Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become someone's object of attention. See rule #1.

 Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun. 

 Doc

 



  

 [quote] ---

johnhilterman1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: BFM/ACM

Agree but you know as well as I do…..”there’s no kill like a guns kill!”  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp

 Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:04 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: BFM/ACM  

  

       

Rule # 1 Speed is life!  

    

Rule #2  If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's attention. Questions, see rule #1.  

    

Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become someone's object of attention. See rule #1.  

    

Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun.   

    

Doc  

  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: BFM/ACM

Tim Gagnon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call the airlifters. 


	


Don't you mean "trash haulers?"



 	  Quote: 	
		   Then there is always your constant need for gas......


	


Yo quiero Taco Bell.



 	  Quote: 	
		   By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb and you can also cook your own dinner and take a piss (and not in a zip lock bag).


	


But it takes for f'in ever to get anywhere. I am no longer in need of 

more hours for the next rating.

-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: BFM/ACM

Logistics DRIVEs warfare, plain and simple. Airlift helps that happen. Call us whatever you want...we are the air bridge. I have been called trash hauler and I have been called Freedom Bird. I have taken folks in country and out. I have carried the living and I have carried the dead. I have dropped food, medical supplies, and Special Forces. I have been to 52 countries in ten years. I have seen a lot of the world. All, in a C-130.



We may take forever to get anywhere but remember we can also go ANYWHERE (C-130's that is and a some places open to the C-17). Look at the variants of the airframe and remember the airplane has been in constant production and service since 1954. It is the DC-3 of today and for the near future. 

You may be able to replace a fighter with a UAV, try that with airlift. 



Damn civilians....  



 	  brian wrote: 	
		  Tim Gagnon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call the airlifters. 



	


Don't you mean "trash haulers?"



 	  Quote: 	
		   Then there is always your constant need for gas......



	


Yo quiero Taco Bell.



 	  Quote: 	
		   By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb and you can also cook your own dinner and take a piss (and not in a zip lock bag).



	


But it takes for f'in ever to get anywhere. I am no longer in need of 

more hours for the next rating.

-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Last edited by HawkerPilot2015 on Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: BFM/ACM

To my pointy nosed friends!

  



To LtCol Van Wickler: 



Sir, 



I am DJ Baker and I would appreciate it if you could tell me what it takes to be an F-16 fighter pilot of the USAF. What classes should I take in high school to help the career I want to take later in my life? What could I do to get in the academy? 



Sincerely 



DJ Baker 

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

From: VanWickler Kenneth, Lt Col, HQ AETC 



Anybody want to help this poor kid from Cyberspace? 



"Vee Dub" 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Dear DJ, 



Obviously, through no fault of your own, your young, impressionable brain has been poisoned by the superfluous, hyped-up, "Top Gun" Media portrayal of fighter pilots. Unfortunately, this portrayal could not be further from the truth. In my experience, I've found most fighter pilots pompous, back-stabbing, momma's boys with inferiority complexes, as well as being extremely over-rated aeronautically. 



However, rather than dash your budding dreams of becoming a USAF pilot, I offer the following alternative: What you REALLY want to aspire to is the exiting, challenging, and rewarding world of TACTICAL AIRLIFT. And this, young DJ, means one thing....the venerable workhorse, THE C-130! I can guarantee no fighter pilot can brag that he has led a 12-ship formation down a valley at 300 ft above the ground, while trying to interpret a 9-line to a new DZ, avoiding pop-up threats, and coordinating with AWACS, all while eating a box lunch, with the engineer in the back taking a piss and the navigator puking in his trash can! I tell you, DJ, TAC Airlift is where it's at! 



Where else is it legal to throw tanks, HMMWVs, and other crap out the back of an airplane, and not even worry about it when the chute doesn't open and it torpedoes the General's staff car! No where else can you land on a 3000' dirt strip, kick a bunch of ammo and stuff off the ramp without even stopping, then take off again before range control can call to tell you you've landed on the wrong LZ! And talk about exotic travel-when C-130s go somewhere, they GO somewhere (usually for 3 months, unfortunately). This gives you the opportunity to immerse yourself in the local culture enough to give any natives a bad taste in their mouths re the USAF and Americans in general, not something those strat-lift pilots can do from their airport hotel rooms! 



As far as recommendations for your course of study, I offer these: 



Take a lot of math courses. You will need all the advanced math skills you can muster to enable you to calculate per diem rates around the world, when trying to split up the crew's bar tab so that the co-pilot really believes he owes 85% of the whole thing and the nav believing he owes the other 20. 



Health sciences are important, too. You will need a thorough knowledge of biology to make those educated guesses of how much longer you can drink beer before the tremendous case of the shits catches up to you from that meal you ate at that place that had the belly dancers in some God-forsaken foreign country whose name you can't even pronounce! 



Social studies are also beneficial. It is important for a good TAC Airlifter to have the cultural knowledge to be able to ascertain the exact location of the nearest titty bar in any country in the world, then be able to convince the local authorities to release the loadmaster after he offends every sensibility of the local religion and culture. 



A foreign language is helpful, but not required. You will never be able to pronounce the names of the NAVAIDs in France, and it's much easier to ignore them and go where you want to anyway. As a rule of thumb: Waiters and bellhops in France are always called "Pierre", in Spain it's "Hey, Pedro" and in Italy, of course, it's "Mario." These terms of address also serve in other countries interchangeably, depending upon the level of swarth of the addresee. 



A study of geography is also paramount. You will need to know the basic location of all the places you've been when you get back from your TDY and are ready to stick those little pins in that huge world map you've got taped to you living room wall, right next to that gigantic wooden giraffe statue and beer stein collection. 



Well, DJ, I hope this little note inspires you. And by the way, forget about that Academy thing. All TAC Airlifters know that there are waaay too few women and too little alcohol there to provide a well-balanced 



education. A nice, big state college would be a much better choice. Good luck and see you on the SKE scope! 



Maj. Hunter Mills

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

Absolutely! Aint no kill like a guns kill! 'Cept maybe with a Bow! Then it is closer and  even more personal. But, that is a differnt form of hunting.

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

Tim Gagnon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Logistics DRIVEs warfare, plain and simple. Airlift helps that happen. Call us whatever you want...we are the air bridge. I have been called trash hauler and I have been called Freedom Bird. I have taken folks in country and out. I have carried the living and I have carried the dead. I have dropped food, medical supplies, and Special Forces. I have been to 52 countries in ten years. I have seen a lot of the world. All, in a C-130.


	


Ah, I struck a nerve I guess. I guess it all depends on whose ox is 

being gored. 



 	  Quote: 	
		   We may take forever to get anywhere but remember we can also go ANYWHERE (C-130's that is and a some places open to the C-17). Look at the variants of the airframe and remember the airplane has been in constant production and service since 1954. It is the DC-3 of today and for the near future.


	


No matter how good it is, it is painful to sit in back for 15 hours.



Why don't you just make fun of my callsign? It will make you feel better.



-- 

Brian "Pinky" Lloyd                 361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

Tim Gagnon wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   A foreign language is helpful, but not required. You will never be able to pronounce the names of the NAVAIDs in France, 


	


Hoo ha! That one is sooooo true! I was flying my Comanche from London to 

Tousous le Noble, just outside of Versailles, so I could get to the 

Paris Airshow. I was IFR and they kept giving me these names that bore 

NO FRIGGIN' RESEMBLANCE to what was printed on the charts. I had to ask 

for them to read the phixes to me phonetically. And when I got all done 

I found out they had just given me a STAR, which I had. Now if they had 

only told me that when they took the handoff from London ...



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

fougapilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

Brian,

Don't feel left out. I learnt to speak french long before I gave English a 

shot and still can't pronounce the names of certain France NAVAIDS. Come to 

think of it, most of the time I speak to a French controller, it is in 

english to avoid any confusion...

D

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com>

Reply-To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: BFM/ACM

Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:17:12 -0700

Tim Gagnon wrote:

>A foreign language is helpful, but not required. You will never be able to 

>pronounce the names of the NAVAIDs in France,

Hoo ha! That one is sooooo true! I was flying my Comanche from London to 

Tousous le Noble, just outside of Versailles, so I could get to the Paris 

Airshow. I was IFR and they kept giving me these names that bore NO 

FRIGGIN' RESEMBLANCE to what was printed on the charts. I had to ask for 

them to read the phixes to me phonetically. And when I got all done I found 

out they had just given me a STAR, which I had. Now if they had only told 

me that when they took the handoff from London ...

--

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

http://wiki.matronics.com

johnhilterman1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

Here, here!  November and the rut can’t come fast enough.  

Hitman  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp

 Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:04 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: BFM/ACM  

  

       

Absolutely! Aint no kill like a guns kill! 'Cept maybe with a Bow! Then it is closer and  even more personal. But, that is a differnt form of hunting.  

    

Doc  

    

   

  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: BFM/ACM

Shack! Only down here in LA, the Rut comes in late Dec to 1st week of Jan. So the last two weeks of the season is prime for us. Gotta get this ANG thing behind me. It has interfered with way to many hunting weekends since 911!

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

TG 

   

  I understand your frustrations.  So many times in my relatively short career, I have seen my heavy driver buds bagged on.  You know...the slow fat kids *do* always get killed at Red Flag scenarios...sorry for that, but there is a reason, it's survival of the most important, and in the initial sweep, that is the boys with the biggest BOTOT.  

   

  We both know that realistically, we are not going to employ that way, we will sweep the area, get SEAD on station, then bring in the boys with the bombs.  THEN, we will bring in the heavies with the supplies etc.  

   

  Talking with several of my buds that have weathered this last war, you will all be surprised to know that I think the "trash haulers" took the most anti-aircraft fire than any other platform the military owns.  I have two really close buds that escaped by the hair of their chinny chin  chin.  

   

  We all talk alot of smack and that is what makes us who we are.  But there is no doubt in my mind that the boys that had the hardest time since 9-11 are the ones that we call trash haulers.  I have a g'friend from OTS and UPT that bought a house near Pope.  In the 3 years she was stationed there, she Literally spent 4 weeks there.  Why?  Because she was hauling troops and mail and supplies and everything you can imagine from every remote base in the middle east you can imagine.  You talk about sacrifice...think about it...4 weeks out of 3 years you are home with your family?  I don't think any AAMRAM shooter/G pullin/ACM doing SOB can say the same.  I know they can't.   Yes, 200 days a year, but NOT 4 weeks in 3 years.

   

  Okay, so I go on and on, point is....we all need each other and I will tell you what, if it weren't for the trash haulers (and I use  that affectionately)  I wouldn't have had my gym or chow in the desert, so thank you for that!

   

  Smash



non <NiftyYak50(at)msn.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" 



Logistics DRIVEs warfare, plain and simple. Airlift helps that happen. Call us whatever you want...we are the air bridge. I have been called trash hauler and I have been called Freedom Bird. I have taken folks in country and out. I have carried the living and I have carried the dead. I have dropped food, medical supplies, and Special Forces. I have been to 52 countries in ten years. I have seen a lot of the world. All, in a C-130.



We may take forever to get anywhere but remember we can also go ANYWHERE (C-130's that is and a some places open to the C-17). Look at the variants of the airframe  and remember the airplane has been in constant production and service since 1954. It is the DC-3 of today and for the near future. 

You may be able to replace a fighter with a UAV, try that with airlift. 

	


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HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: Re: BFM/ACM

Smash,



No sweat..and that comes from a sweaty. One important thing I learned during my time in theater was that every single person who puts on the uniform is needed and just as much as the next person. The flyers always get the glory for a mission, but my heroes over there were our maintenance folks. Working on a ramp where temps reached over 120'F and they did it with a smile. They did AWESOME work and kept our unit at the top of the heap when it came to MCR. We had the highest in theater for quite some time. 



The concept of Total Force really took on another life over there. I was impressed, awed, and proud to see the men and women of our Armed Forces do what they did..together. 



So whether you fly something with a pointy nose, a big spinning disc on top, or the four fans of freedom; as long as your in the fight, you are ok with me. But until you fighter pilots can haul six months worth of gear (you know, nice bedding, X-Box with about 100 games, laptop, refridgerator, dvd players, TV's...you know, stuff to keep you comfortable..this is the USAF)  in your centerline pod, keep it quiet!



As far as Flags, we have not done one BUT we do have a course out west where we learn to fly into a high threat area that includes both ground and air threats. One scenario calls for a pair of fighters to jump us.(Vipers this time but they talked about Hogs, which really got us scared). Anyway, the fight went well for us. Only a few small 20mm's in the outer panel of a wing after six engagements. Nothing the sheet metal guys could not fix on a smoke break. We just slowed way down (<220 kts), took the fight down to less than 1000 agl and waited. The Vipers did not like that at all. We also had eyes on them at all times. (using two spotters in the airplane..me being one of them) It was fun but proved even slow fat kid can survive the bully. It was a blast to do and a real eye opener. 



So to all of you who fly, walk, paddle, dig, type, shoot, jump..whatever you do and wherever you do it..thanks!

BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoint.usmc.mil wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > But the issue Tim is not who discovered it first, or who trained with it when.?     

> The issue is:? Can you do it now, if you were not military first.?    

>    

> Mark Bitterlich  

> N50YK    

> p.s.? And by the way, I am sure you are correct on all the statements that you made.?    

>   

>    

> --   

Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50(at)msn.com> said:  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  I would say yes with proper instruction from someone who has the knowhow to teach it.  

I would venture to say that only a handful of folks out there who are NOT miltary can  

train a full up dog fight and call it safe.    

My point is not who teaches it, but that any pilot with the correct ability can be taught how to do it.     
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Hitman mentioned one of them and I know exactly who he is talking about.  

But as Hitman said, he learned from a former Hornet driver.  

I think, with only a few exceptions, that training should come from military sources.    

Who one receives training from is of course a personal choice, but also one where other  
	


people opinions are always worth listening to!     

 	  Quote: 	
		  On the RPA front; I could give a rats ass what the RPA thinks about it.  

They are not a governing body and if they do not endorse it, who cares.    

Exactly.     
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  It will not prevent anyone from doing it. If you are at a RPA "sponsored" event,  

find your own little slice of sky and have at it. I find it odd that the RPA will  

hold a amateur aerobatic event at ARS this year but does not suppport ACM anymore.  

Both can get you killed and more have died from the former.    

Exactly.     
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  For those that want to fight..go fight. If you ball up an airplane, that sucks.  

If you are inverted at 15 feet AGL pushing for a outside loop and your wings snap, that sucks too.   

Exactly.      
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Maybe the RPA should support ownership and basic operation and leave the rest to the owners.   

Exactly.     
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Curious how many folks have been killed doing ACM versus aerobatics in the Yak or CJ?   

I would venture to say very few have died doing ACM.

BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: BFM/ACM

Sarah Tobin (Smash) said:  

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm going to disagree with this, because...I can.     

Ok, then I am going to disagree with it because I do.     
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  I don't see how civilians could ever (want to) train the way  

the military does.  1 full year of 12 hour days, 5 days a week.  

3 sorties a day, normally 2 flights and 1 sim.  Weekly written  

tests, daily stand up tests.  Memorization of every possible  

emergency procedure and the ability to state verbatim chronologically  

how you would handle any given situation given only 2 variables.   

Oh btw, you are required to work out at the gym at least 10 hours  

a week and document what you did, plus handle all of the other things  

in life like studying, doing laundry, eating...that seems to fall by  

the way side most of the time...I think I was at my skinniest weight  

when I was in UPT.   

It's an interesting concept that the harder the training, the better  
	


product that you receive in the end.  The Marines have always held  

that to be true, which if accurate, would make all the rest of you  

"Second Best" would it not?  Just a thought.......      

Anyway, of course it is common knowledge that the military trains great pilots.   

That's why all the first Astronauts were always chosen from the military,  

their selection and continued training being held by civilians.  

And last time I checked, NASA was still a civilian agency.         

 	  Quote: 	
		  Anyway, it's tough, it's really really tough.  I don't think even the  

airlines are that rigorous.  I know they have long days when they are  

upgrading etc, but I don't think that agony ever goes on for a year.   

Maybe 4 months of LINE/LOFT etc.  But it is the same principal, you  

completely surrender yourself to thinking, breathing, eating,  

living flying in a fire hose environment. 

I don't claim to know what the RPA does for training, but even if it  

requires 10 weekends a year to upgrade to ACM/BFM/Formation whatever.... 

it will *never* compare to the military training.     

Who says it has to?  I remember a whole slew of Marine Pilots who went to  
	


watch Sergei Boriak fly a Sukhoi-26 for the first time, they ALL just stood there  

with their mouths hanging open in total awe.  What he could do in that airplane 

was beyond any training that they had ever received, was beyond any manuever that  

they had previously believed even possible in a flying machine! Because they  

received such wonderful training, and were such good pilots, they mistakenly  

believed that they therefore had to be the best at every single form of flying  

there was.... considering for example that Aerobatics is really just a limited  

off-shoot of ACM.  Wrong answer.     

Their experience... in their face, no excuses necessary, and thank you very much,  

was that here was not only a civilian pilot, but a Russian one at that,  

that could eat their lunch with a spoon upon request.  Some there muttered about  

how in a real dogfight, they could eat his shorts... others looked at those people 

and said: "Yeah right.... let me know when you give it a try."     

 	  Quote: 	
		  Doesn't make it bad or worse or anything...it just is, what it is.   

Damned Skippy.  Let me know when you have flown with him.     
	


Best Regards,   

Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK

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