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Powerplant Choices
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planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Powerplant Choices

seems like it might make it harder to ham-hand as well.



ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org> wrote:  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" 



Does 20hp really make that much of a difference? The 601HD was originally designed for 65hp if I'm not mistaken.



I've heard that it takes 25% more power to go 10% faster. Personally, I'd guess that an 80hp engine, even on a 601XL is sufficient.



Just an analogy here. I used to have a 18' aluminum starcraft boat. Originally it had a 140hp engine on it, It did about 48mph with that arrangement, maybe 50 tops. I took that off and mounted a 70hp evinrude. With the 70hp engine, the boat went a solid 36mph, or about a 25% reduction in speed for a 50% reduction in power, there was no major noticable difference in getting it up on plane either. From everything everyone is [quote][b]

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d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: Powerplant Choices

An 80 HP 912 should be more than enough. That doesn't mean it's enough for 

everyone, there is a LARGE segment of aviation who adhere to the more is 

always better philosophy. IF they could mount 200hp on a 601, they would. My 

old BMW motorcycle has a thirty something HP engine, the same frame was 

available with engines up to 2/3 larger. There are a lot of people trying to 

extract more HP from that larger engine in the belief that they don't have 

enough power. If you simply want to fly a relaxing and enjoyable plane 80 is 

enough, if you want to hit pattern altitude before you have used up a 1000 

ft runway, you'll need more.



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zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: Powerplant Choices

I love this conversation, when is enough , enough? Well never, but when

is enough adequate, that is the question. Lets look at the 701 she will

happily put along on 60hp shes will have adequate stol performance and

cruise at an appreciable 70 mph. But no one installs a 582 anymore,

everyone installs a Rotax 912, this is a great performer and your plane

will cruise at a robust 90 mph with some clean up, stol performance will

be enviable to everyone. If you are buying a used 912 and getting a

great deal then you have the perfect engine, but if your buying new then

the 912S is typically only $1,500 dollars more. SO for that extra cash

which in the whole cost isn't that much, you have a plane that can

cruise at 95-105 mph, STOL is sickening to anyone's stomach and it

climbs vertically. DO we need this? Not for most of us, but lets look at

the 100 deg day at 5000 ft strip. Would the engine that didn't cost much

extra, uses little more in fuel burn and weighs the same as the lower hp

motor not make more sense? 20 hp makes a big difference if it isn't a

big difference in the pocket book. Now lets look at the 914, here is

another 15 hp above the 912S we cannot cruise any faster because we are

already close to Vne we won't notice the climb rate unless we are at

high altitude. Plus the engine is $14,000 more then the 100hp this is

the value that does not make sense. The engine will not do anything more

for us, but it will cost us a hell of a lot more. We will not realize

value for performance. Both the 912 and 912S are capable of the same

slow flight cost is of little difference when new, so in this case the

extra 20 hp are desirable.



In the 601HD she will happily put along on 70hp, but at that fly-in that

you landed at first thing this morning and the heat when crazy will I

have enough runway to take off? Having more HP is not just for flying

faster, it is for the ability to use the resources we want to. A short

strip on a very hot day may be too much for a low powered plane. That

extra 20hp may make the difference. The problem is to know when airframe

gain is eclipsed by pocketbook drain.



IF you can afford a 70 hp motor, but the 90 hp is less then a couple

thousand it is sometimes better to wait that little extra, remember your

going to have this plane a long time as a rule. But if were looking at a

huge difference in cost then 70 hp is adequate and you will still have a

fun plane. Though you will also be aware that some runways and

situations may not be advisable for you. Heat and altitude conditions

are more critical.



There is always a limit. More is not always better, but if it is within

reason to costs and airframe then more may be desirable. 



When it comes down to a Rotax 912 over the 912S, in Canada the cost

difference is less then $1,500.00 for this amount I can never recommend

the straight 912 unless you are able to find a half time one for a good

cost. Only then do you have a reasonable value for HP output. 



Look over your options, Look over your abilities, look at your mission.

These things will dictate which each of us will desire, not the other

fellow that may fly a different mission.



Mark Townsend

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

president(at)can-zacaviation.com

www.can-zacaviation.com 



--

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zenith601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: Powerplant Choices

There is one advantage for the 912 over the S.  It runs on regular

auto gas, the S needs premium, so the cost of operation is less.  I am

building a 601XL with Jabiru 3300 so the whole discussion is academic

but interesting.



Dennis Shoup

N601JJ



On Nov 12, 2007 7:30 PM, ZodieRocket <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> wrote:

[quote] 



 I love this conversation, when is enough , enough? Well never, but when

 is enough adequate, that is the question. Lets look at the 701 she will

 happily put along on 60hp shes will have adequate stol performance and

 cruise at an appreciable 70 mph. But no one installs a 582 anymore,

 everyone installs a Rotax 912, this is a great performer and your plane

 will cruise at a robust 90 mph with some clean up, stol performance will

 be enviable to everyone. If you are buying a used 912 and getting a

 great deal then you have the perfect engine, but if your buying new then

 the 912S is typically only $1,500 dollars more. SO for that extra cash

 which in the whole cost isn't that much, you have a plane that can

 cruise at 95-105 mph, STOL is sickening to anyone's stomach and it

 climbs vertically. DO we need this? Not for most of us, but lets look at

 the 100 deg day at 5000 ft strip. Would the engine that didn't cost much

 extra, uses little more in fuel burn and weighs the same as the lower hp

 motor not make more sense? 20 hp makes a big difference if it isn't a

 big difference in the pocket book. Now lets look at the 914, here is

 another 15 hp above the 912S we cannot cruise any faster because we are

 already close to Vne we won't notice the climb rate unless we are at

 high altitude. Plus the engine is $14,000 more then the 100hp this is

 the value that does not make sense. The engine will not do anything more

 for us, but it will cost us a hell of a lot more. We will not realize

 value for performance. Both the 912 and 912S are capable of the same

 slow flight cost is of little difference when new, so in this case the

 extra 20 hp are desirable.



 In the 601HD she will happily put along on 70hp, but at that fly-in that

 you landed at first thing this morning and the heat when crazy will I

 have enough runway to take off? Having more HP is not just for flying

 faster, it is for the ability to use the resources we want to. A short

 strip on a very hot day may be too much for a low powered plane. That

 extra 20hp may make the difference. The problem is to know when airframe

 gain is eclipsed by pocketbook drain.



 IF you can afford a 70 hp motor, but the 90 hp is less then a couple

 thousand it is sometimes better to wait that little extra, remember your

 going to have this plane a long time as a rule. But if were looking at a

 huge difference in cost then 70 hp is adequate and you will still have a

 fun plane. Though you will also be aware that some runways and

 situations may not be advisable for you. Heat and altitude conditions

 are more critical.



 There is always a limit. More is not always better, but if it is within

 reason to costs and airframe then more may be desirable.



 When it comes down to a Rotax 912 over the 912S, in Canada the cost

 difference is less then $1,500.00 for this amount I can never recommend

 the straight 912 unless you are able to find a half time one for a good

 cost. Only then do you have a reasonable value for HP output.



 Look over your options, Look over your abilities, look at your mission.

 These things will dictate which each of us will desire, not the other

 fellow that may fly a different mission.



 Mark Townsend

 Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

 president(at)can-zacaviation.com

 www.can-zacaviation.com



 --

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