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Archie -- stroked O-200?

 
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jrccea(at)bellsouth.net
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

Archie, would it be possible to stroke an experimental O-200, and if so, about how much?
JimC
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archie97(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

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jrccea(at)bellsouth.net
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might not fit the bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight ratio. The O-200 I'm messing about with at the moment appears to be putting out something on the loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm (9.5:1 compression), but I'd like to try a stroker for the fun of it. I have friend who makes custom pistons, so don't see that as a real bottleneck. Nor is the cost-benefit ratio necessarily a driving factor. Who might I talk to about stroking a crank?
[quote] ---


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apilot2(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:34 am    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

Have you looked into what TCM IO-240 components you might be able to
use? I've forgotten how TCM gets the extra displacement, but it is
based on the same crankcase.

On 1/19/07, jrc <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
[quote]
That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might not fit the
bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight ratio. The O-200
I'm messing about with at the moment appears to be putting out something on
the loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm (9.5:1 compression), but I'd
like to try a stroker for the fun of it. I have friend who makes custom
pistons, so don't see that as a real bottleneck. Nor is the cost-benefit
ratio necessarily a driving factor. Who might I talk to about stroking a
crank?
---


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jrccea(at)bellsouth.net
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

The O-240 gets its displacement from the use of IO-360 cylinders. It has
the same stroke as the O-200.
JimC
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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

In a message dated 1/19/2007 8:53:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrccea(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Quote:
That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might not fit the bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight ratio. The O-200 I'm messing about with at the moment appears to be putting out something on the loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm (9.5:1 compression), but I'd like to try a stroker for the fun of it. I have friend who makes custom pistons, so don't see that as a real bottleneck. Nor is the cost-benefit ratio necessarily a driving factor. Who might I talk to about stroking a crank?

Talk to Moldex near Detroit, MI. I was not able to fine them on the web, but a search for Moldex Crankshaft will give a lot of hits. I have found their phone number before, but had to search some for it.

They make racing cranks. They can take your crank as a sample, and make a stroker for you from a steel billet. You need to check for clearance to the cam and case, of course.

Dan Hopper
RV-7A
[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:35 am    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

True. I suspect cam clearance might be more of a problem than case clearance. And of course, the journal shoulder radii are different than in automotive engines.
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MONTY(at)bpaengines.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

Fellows, you want to be very careful about stroking aircraft
crankshafts.



1. You will lose considerable Journal overlap. If you
don't know what this term means you definitely do not
need to play this game.

2. Most aircraft cranks are nitrided.

3. automotive crank grinders as a general rule, do not know about
nitriding ( some do ) and they will crack the crankshaft in the fillet
radii.

4. If the crank is not renitrided you lose about 15% of the
fatique strength which is likely already unknown to you.

5. If you keep the same rod bearing diameter the crank will have
to be built up with metal deposition of some type. In past history this
has not been satisfactory considering the bearing loads and duty cycles
of aircraft engines.

6. Crankshafts machined from billet are inferior in strength to
forged ones.



I have stroked some 540 Lyc. Cranks, 5 to be exact, 3 have failed at a
very early service life, less than 100 hrs, 1 is still here in the shop
and not for sale under any circumstances, and the remaining one is in an
airboat engine. Airboat is a whole different operating regime for more
than the obvious reason.



One of the failed stroked cranks was at full tilt boogie and the only
thing useable from the engine was the oil sump and the prop governor
drive. All the failed cranks have been in a rod journal fillet radius,

#5 and #6, as a rapid fatigue failure and was from bending loads. All
these cranks were ground at a well known crankshaft shop who shall go
unnamed, all were re-nitrided. In the 540 Lyc the pistons had to be
shortened under the pin bosses, piston skirts had to be shortened, the
rods had to be nipped so as not to hit the camshaft, and the cylinder
skirts had to be scalloped to clear the opposing rod cap.



Monty Barrett

Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:53 am    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

Thanks, Monty. That was just the sort of background info I was looking for. I do know what journal overlap is, and why it's important. But other than that, I know just enough to readily express ignorance.
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archie97(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

I merely used the O-360 engine as a hypothetical example of costs.
Had two custom cranks made, because I did not want to reduce the rod journal size on the two strokers, and similarly increased the fillet radius.
I am constantly queried about how I was able to derive so much power from that stock stroke engine.
First, and foremost, the most work was done from the intake, head, and exhaust with many hours on a wet flow bench.
No details, except suffice it to say that port orientation was moved, and reduced. I used smaller valves and seats,
Four into one exhausts, and intake runners that did not even resemble the originals.
As this is essentially proprietary, that is all I will say for now, other than the engine was designed to make max power at 5k alt or less.
Archie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Archie -- stroked O-200? Reply with quote

Monty, if you wanted to increase the power output of an O-200 in the 2700-2800 rpm range (for durations of about 1 minute), with continuous cruise rpm to be in the 2100-2300 rpm range, what modifications would you consider feasible?
JimC
[quote][b]


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