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Z-13 for internally regulated alt

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steerr(at)bellsouth.net
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: Z-13 for internally regulated alt

I'm wiring my Zenith 601HD with a Stratus Subaru EA-81 engine using a 

modified version of Z-13 - the Generic wiring diagram.  Part of the 

modification to that diagram is to accomodate the internally regulated 

alternator.  Z-13 uses a 2-10 Battery/Alt Master switch, so the batter 

contacter is engaged in the first On position and both battery and 

alternator are connected in the second position, indicating use of a 2-3 

switch.  I can see an advantage of being able to take the alternator off 

line without shutting down the whole system using the 2-10 switch.  However, 

a note on the wiring diagram for the OVM-14 overvoltage protection module 

says both the battery and alternator must come on and go off at the same 

time.



Which switch is recommended in this situation?  What is the reason for 

bringing the battery and alternator on and off together?



Thanks very much for any help or advice.



Bill Steer

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steerr(at)bellsouth.net
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: Z-13 for internally regulated alt

Oops.  That "indicating use of a 2-3 switch" should have been on the 

"However" sentence, not the one about the 2-10 switch.  Sorry for the 

confusion.



Bill



---

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: Z-13 for internally regulated alt

At 08:25 AM 11/27/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I'm wiring my Zenith 601HD with a Stratus Subaru EA-81 engine using a 

modified version of Z-13 - the Generic wiring diagram.  Part of the 

modification to that diagram is to accomodate the internally regulated 

alternator.  Z-13 uses a 2-10 Battery/Alt Master switch, so the batter 

contacter is engaged in the first On position and both battery and 

alternator are connected in the second position, indicating use of a 2-3 

switch.  I can see an advantage of being able to take the alternator off 

line without shutting down the whole system using the 2-10 switch.


	


     In the early days of the Z-figures and before we had

     sources for reasonably priced 2-10 switches, the 2-3

     COMBINED with the breaker associated with a crowbar

     ov protection system offers both normal operational

     control of battery/alternator system (it matters not

     whether they are ON/OFF together or progressively

     switched OFF/BAT/BAT+ALT).  The pullable breaker

     offers a means by which an alternator can be kept

     quiet on the ground during battery only ops.



     You can use either combination but know also that

     many if not all internally regulated alternators cannot

     be shut down from outside should the regulator fail

     in a ov runaway condition. A system for offsetting that

     feature was published in the 'Connection some years ago

     (Figure Z-24 combined a b-lead contactor and OVM-14).



     Mis-use of this architecture (operating the alternator

     ON/OFF control while alternator was under load) precipitated

     some damage to alternator regulators. The word went out

     that the circuit was "flawed and not recommended." One

     can debate the politics of this statement endlessly but

     the bottom line is that I withdrew Z-24 in its original

     form.



     A new control philosophy is being explored that will

     offset the shortcomings of the original Z-24. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/OV/z24a_Preliminary.pdf



     It's by belief that this product will allow any time, any

     conditions, ON/OFF control of an IR alternator without regard

     to system safety.



     Short answer to your question is that I recommend the 2-10

     switch because it integrates nicely with the proposed

     9004-1 Controller. But if you install a 2-3, the system will

     come on line and function as advertised but without the

     ability to control the alternator at will.

 	  Quote: 	
		  However, a note on the wiring diagram for the OVM-14 overvoltage 

protection module says both the battery and alternator must come on and go 

off at the same time.


	




 	  Quote: 	
		  Which switch is recommended in this situation?  What is the reason for 

bringing the battery and alternator on and off together?


	


    Where do you find this?  I'm trying to understand the

    context of the statement, at the moment it doesn't

    seem valid . . .



    You can go either way but the 2-10 is recommended for

    the reason cite . . .



    Bob . . .

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steerr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: Z-13 for internally regulated alt

Thanks, Bob.  I'll certainly go with your recommendation for the 2-10.



To answer your question about the source of the statement that said the 

battery and alt must come on and off together...  The OVM-14 from B&C came 

with two wiring diagrams enclosed - one for internally and one for 

externally regulated alternators.  Both diagrams have a statement that says 

"IMPORTANT - BATTERY CONTACTOR AND ALTERNATOR SHOULD COME ON AND OFF 

TOGETHER."



Bill



<snip>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

    Where do you find this?  I'm trying to understand the

    context of the statement, at the moment it doesn't

    seem valid . . .



    You can go either way but the 2-10 is recommended for

    the reason cite . . .

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: Z-13 for internally regulated alt

At 10:50 AM 11/27/2006 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks, Bob.  I'll certainly go with your recommendation for the 2-10.



To answer your question about the source of the statement that said the 

battery and alt must come on and off together...  The OVM-14 from B&C came 

with two wiring diagrams enclosed - one for internally and one for 

externally regulated alternators.  Both diagrams have a statement that 

says "IMPORTANT - BATTERY CONTACTOR AND ALTERNATOR SHOULD COME ON AND OFF 

TOGETHER."\


	




   Hmmm . . . okay. That doesn't appear in one of

   my publications. Thanks!



   Bob . . .

      ---------------------------------------------------------

      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

      < with experiment.                                      >

      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

      ---------------------------------------------------------

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