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Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

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esmith6(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

Hey gang.........I sent this to   ehotline(at)eaa.org (ehotline(at)eaa.org)   I need some  opinions on this from you homebuilders...I hope I don't start a  fire-storm...Please be civil and nice in your reply's, as Hollywood says,  "please don't shoot the messenger."  ..........CHEERS!!!!

  

  

  

  

 There are many, many of us out here that would like  to see another convention for experimentals, homebuilts and kitplanes,  ONLY!

  

 NO WARBIRDS, NO COMMERCIAL JETS OR ALL THE  ASSOCIATED STUFF THAT RIDES WITH THE WADS OF CASH THAT FLOWS WITH ALL THAT  CONGLOMERATION WE HAVE TO PUT-UP WITH!

  

 THE CONVENTION AS IT IS NOW, IS ALMOST OUT OF  CONTROL AND SO LARGE THAT PEOPLE FLYING IN HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO  LAND.

  

 We want our convention back to where it  was before the economics took over and has diluted us to where we can  hardly find a parking place, and are pushed into the background by the "big  guys" with the bankrolls and political connections.

  

 Can't we please have another convention for us  "little guys?"  I guarantee you will get many responsive eager folks rising  to the occasion.

  

 I'm a builder, and everywhere I go, I hear  pilots/builders voicing complaints about this situation.

  

 Thanks for your time...Please investigate this  complaint for a solution.

  

 Gene Smith

  

   [quote][b]

Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:23 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

Gene,

 I agree with you 100%!!!

 Stan Sutterfield

 Tampa

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hey gang.........I sent this to   ehotline(at)eaa.org   I need some 

opinions on this from you homebuilders...I hope I don't start a 

fire-storm...Please be civil and nice in your reply's, as Hollywood 

says, "please don't shoot the messenger."  ...........CHEERS!!!! 	


 

  [quote][b]

johnee(at)ldd.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

Great idea....

  

 John

 [quote]   ---

john(at)hallaviation.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

I think many of us are involved in other facets of aviation.  I personally enjoy the opportunity to see "everything aviation" at a single event, as I don't have the time or budget to attend numerous "product specific" venues.  The crowds are certainly a hassle, but they handle them well.

  

 John Hall

 San Antonio TX

 RV-8 N550PJ

 [quote]---

Chuck Chappell

Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 10

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

Well said John,  

   

Also don’t forget if the cost of producing the event didn’t get spread amongst the many vendors then those vendors that you want to see and talk to might not be able to afford the cost of being there. I personally don’t have much more than a passing interest in war birds and the varied certified airplanes that attend, but a lot of the ticket buyers come just to see those and again that spreads the cost of the event to make it affordable for everyone.   

   

Chuck Chappell  

         

  

From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hall

 Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:01 AM

 To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!  

  

   

I think many of us are involved in other facets of aviation.  I personally enjoy the opportunity to see "everything aviation" at a single event, as I don't have the time or budget to attend numerous "product specific" venues.  The crowds are certainly a hassle, but they handle them well.  

   

John Hall  

San Antonio  TX  

RV-8 N550PJ   	  Quote: 	
		    

   

----- Original Message -----

 From: Speedy11(at)aol.com

 To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:23:14 EDT      

Gene,  

    

I agree with you 100%!!!  

    

Stan Sutterfield  

    

Tampa  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Hey gang.........I sent this to   ehotline(at)eaa.org   I need some 

 opinions on this from you homebuilders...I hope I don't start a 

 fire-storm...Please be civil and nice in your reply's, as Hollywood 

 says, "please don't shoot the messenger."  ..........CHEERS!!!!    ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-Listnics.com.com.matronics.com/contribution 	
	
  

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       [quote][b]

sales(at)6440autoparts.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

    Airventure 2006 was the first time I had ever been to Osh Kosh. And  honestly if there we're only experimental aircraft there I believe I would have  been bored with it. Even though I am building one. If it was only experimental  they would probably want to call it something like "the ultimate RV  fly-in" for obvious reason's )). As it was I spent an entire week and still  did'nt see and do all I wanted to.  

            I believe  you are correct about the big dollar boy's hoisting most of the bill. I even  visited the Ford automobile tent for a bit and enjoyed it even though it had  nothing to do with aviation. I also enjoyed looking at all the certified  aircraft venders and getting some ideas for my experimental from them. Heck even  some of the dog and pony show's in the big hangers we're interesting and I'm  sure the rent they paid helped to keep the cost down for us adventurer's. I  spent a lot of time taking classes and listening to lecture's on expimental  aviation related interests in the Poly Fiber forum's. To me that was worth the  cost of admission and the rest was just icing on the cake.

             All  & all even though Osh is'nt exactly experimental aircraft only it is very  informative and enteratining. The only thing I would really want to see changed  about it is more transportaion getting around on site. Wow my feet, legs, back  are still killing me. All that excercise is hard on old fat men like me  ))))).  Maybe what is needed is to start another experimental ONLY type of  a deal somewhere in a middle US state later in the year when the weather  cools down. Say maybe Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Nebraska etc. to be more  centrally loctated.  

  

 Randy

  

 [quote]   ---

ninetyninewest(at)yahoo.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

Hey Randy,

       This comment may not be to well reseived, but here goes anyway.

   

       I agree with the comment about the big underwriters.  A major sell out that Tom in my estimation is responsible for. I do not believe that it would have occured under Paul's leadership.

   

       On the issue of ground transport I take the opposite point of view.  Having attended for past quarter of a century it was much saner when everyone walked and no one rode.  All and I mean all vendors, and exhibitors parked off the grounds.

   

      Biased? Yes,  but I remember it when.....You enjoy it more and cold beer at the end of day tastes better when you know that you have been to the greatest aviation event in the world bar none. I have flown aircraft to Fairnsbourogh and the Paris airshows  thanks to the DoD.

   

       RV-8 builders are the friendliest and most anxious to assist people about.

   

       Randy you are on a good track by suggesting an experimental gathering. You know we really do need as much assistance and opportunity to meet as possible.

   

                 Respectfully,

                       Duane Leach

   

                    



6440 Auto Parts <sales(at)6440autoparts.com> wrote:

  [quote]    v\:* {   BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)  }  o\:* {   BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)  }  w\:* {   BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)  }  .shape {   BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)  }    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />    st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                           Airventure 2006 was the first time I had ever been to Osh Kosh. And honestly if there we're only experimental aircraft there I believe I would have been bored with it. Even though I am building one. If it was only experimental they would probably want to call it something like "the ultimate RV fly-in" for obvious reason's )). As it was I spent an entire week and still did'nt see and do all I wanted to.  

             I believe you are correct about the big dollar boy's hoisting most of the bill. I even visited the Ford automobile tent for a bit and enjoyed it even though it had nothing to do with aviation. I also enjoyed looking at all the certified aircraft venders and getting some ideas for my experimental from them. Heck even some of the dog and pony show's in the big hangers we're interesting and I'm sure the rent they paid helped to keep the cost down for us adventurer's. I spent a lot of time taking classes and listening to lecture's on expimental aviation related interests in the Poly Fiber forum's. To me that was worth the cost of admission and the rest was just icing on the cake.

              All & all even though Osh is'nt exactly experimental aircraft only it is very informative and enteratining.  The only thing I would really want to see changed about it is more transportaion getting around on site. Wow my feet, legs, back are still killing me. All that excercise is hard on old fat men like me ))))).  Maybe what is needed is to start another experimental ONLY type of a deal somewhere in a middle US state later in the year when the weather cools down. Say maybe Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Nebraska etc. to be more centrally loctated.  

   

  Randy

   

  [quote]  ---

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

Hi All- 

Well. It's going to be tough for me to keep this terse.  

A couple of observations: 

I agree with the sentiments expressed by all so far. The big problem is keeping them all in balance, and within an economically viable structure. 

I think a successful homebuilt convention could well be the beginning (continuing?) of the end of OSH, or at least it's diminishing by an order of magnitude. I wouldn't like that. Rather, I would like to see a re-emphasis of aviation and aviators at OSH, and a de-emphasis on making money.  

We are reasonably financially successful and happy individuals in large part because we live within our means, whatever those means might be. EAA needs to be reacquainted with that concept, and needs to stop the money grubbing and pandering to the likes of Ford. Geez, what's the min alt over an open air assembly of people? How high was the Ford over the square / Beach boys? Just what will they do for cash?  And what the hell was up with the Beach Boys anyway? Are they having such a hard time getting AeroShell Square displays these days that they have to prop it up with that kind of dog and pony show? But I digress. I warned you this was going to be hard for me- 

Paul would be a tough act for anyone to follow, and I surely couldn't do the job. But I think Tom is destroying our organization. Yeah, there were mitigators this year, but the exhibit bldgs weren't full, the flight line was looking relatively sparse, the crowds were thinner than I recall seeing for a long time, and the gate was just about as low as I can remember for many years. This is not an isolated situation, either. 

Also, there are an awful lot of dedicated, passionate volunteers that make our convention happen. Without them, there would be no convention. As these people cease participating with the passage of time, and with Paul's charismatic leadership replaced with a cash centered style, I'm afraid that volunteer pool will dry up.  

My last observation comes from many years of daily association with a whole lot of pilots. As a group, we will congregate and grouse ad infinitum. However, very few people will actually get off their butts and DO something about their pet peeves. If this proposed new convention starts coming together, the brain trust up north might just get the picture and get realigned with their constituency. By the same token, if all the folks who are dissatisfied with our current direction would forward those thoughts to tomp(at)eaa.org, perhaps we could achieve our goals without starting a separate convention.  

glen matejcek 

aerobubba(at)earthlink.net (aerobubba(at)earthlink.net)

  

  

 

  [quote][b]

N8RV(at)gte.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

Several years ago, I voiced the same concerns in a  letter to Tom Poberezny.  Remembering the days when the entirety of the  exhibition halls were contained in a couple of small, hot, rickety old hangar  buildings that now have stuff that nobody even bothers to see anymore .. and  the food choices being limited to Zaug's cold hamburgers, cheeseburgers, onion  burgers and the delicious $.35 ice cream cones ... and you could wander the  grounds without fear of being run over by a scooter, car, truck or gator ..  I've watched it bloat over the years into the biggest, baddest airshow in the  world.  All in a decade or so.  I received a polite thanks for my  concerns.

  

 Some of you may recall that, after handing over the  reigns of AirVulture to his beloved son, Paul started the Sport Aviation  Association (SAA).  It was ostensibly devoted to small, homebuilt and  home-designed aircraft -- even our RVs would be too sophisticated for their  tastes.  I've heard nothing from or about the SAA since the first year or  two.

  

 If Paul himself can't compete with the EAA, I doubt  that any of us can reinvent the wheel and succeed.  However -- if I EVER  have a plane to fly -- I'll gladly fly to any RV or homebuilt gathering and  avoid AirVulture ... and won't lose any sleep over it.

  

 -- Don McNamara

    N8RV  "90% done ... 90% to  go."

  

  

 [quote] [b]

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: Homebuilt/Experimental Convention Only!

I've only been to Oshkosh once, and that was 2005.  I thought it was a 

great event, and I really enjoyed it.



I have also been to SNF twice, and it was much smaller, but also very 

enjoyable.



I have not been to any of the regional events, like SWRFI or LOE, but 

I'm sure they are more like what the original poster is looking for.



I know that Oshkosh is about more than experimental aviation, but I'm 

not sure how that fact is hurting experimental aviation.



If you've been in marketing at all, then you know the 25+ year old male 

is one of the most difficult markets for advertisers to reach.  I think 

we'd be accusing Tom P. of incompetence if he rejected all those offers 

from people like Ford to pump money into the EAA.



Additionally, any event that attracts the general public and gives them 

a fun introduction to our hobby seems like a good thing.



I personally feel like I have the best of both worlds - a truly awesome 

huge event with everyone and their dog pitching a tent and their 

products, and smaller, more "homey" regional events where we can just 

talk RVs.



Mickey



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

do not archive

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

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