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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:04 pm Post subject: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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FYI: on the importance of a reasonable trim setting on take-off.
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:23:31 +0100 From: Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid <noreply(at)onderzoeksraad.nl> (noreply(at)onderzoeksraad.nl) To: jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)
Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid .clearfix{*zoom:1;}.clearfix:before,.clearfix:after{display:table;content:"";}.clearfix:after{clear:both;}.hide-text{font:0/0 a;color:transparent;text-shadow:none;background-color:transparent;border:0;}.input-block-level{display:block;width:100%;min-height:28px;-webkit-box-sizing:border-box;-moz-box-sizing:border-box;-ms-box-sizing:border-box;box-sizing:border-box;}article,aside,details,figcaption,figure,footer,header,hgroup,nav,section{display:block;}audio,canvas,video{display:inline-block;*display:inline;*zoom:1;}audio:not([controls]){display:none;}html{font-size:100%;-webkit-text-size-adjust:100%;-ms-text-size-adjust:100%;}a:focus{outline:thin dotted #333;outline:5px auto -webkit-focus-ring-color;outline-offset:-2px;}a:hover,a:active{outline:0;}sub,sup{position:relative;font-size:75%;line-height:0;vertical-align:baseline;}sup{top:-0.5em;}sub{bottom:-0.25em;}img{max-width:100%;vertical-align:middle;border:0;-ms-interpolation-mode:bicubic;}button,input,select,textarea{margin:0;font-size:100%;vertical-align:middle;}button,input{*overflow:visible;line-height:normal;}button::-moz-focus-inner,input::-moz-focus-inner{padding:0;border:0;}button,input[type="button"],input[type="reset"],input[type="submit"]{cursor:pointer;-webkit-appearance:button;}textarea{overflow:auto;vertical-align:top;}body{margin:0;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18px;color:#333333;background-color:#ffffff;}a{color:#0088cc;text-decoration:none;}a:hover{color:#005580;text-decoration:underline;}p{margin:0 0 9px;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18px;}p small{font-size:11px;color:#999999;}.lead{margin-bottom:18px;font-size:20px;font-weight:200;line-height:27px;}h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6{margin:0;font-family:inherit;font-weight:bold;color:inherit;text-rendering:optimizelegibility;}h1 small,h2 small,h3 small,h4 small,h5 small,h6 small{font-weight:normal;color:#999999;}h1{font-size:30px;line-height:36px;}h1 small{font-size:18px;}h2{font-size:24px;line-height:36px;}h2 small{font-size:18px;}h3{font-size:18px;line-height:27px;}h3 small{font-size:14px;}h4,h5,h6{line-height:18px;}h4{font-size:14px;}h4 small{font-size:12px;}h5{font-size:12px;}h6{font-size:11px;color:#999999;text-transform:uppercase;}.page-header{padding-bottom:17px;margin:18px 0;border-bottom:1px solid #eeeeee;}.page-header h1{line-height:1;}ul,ol{padding:0;margin:0 0 9px 25px;}ul ul,ul ol,ol ol,ol ul{margin-bottom:0;}ul{list-style:disc;}ol{list-style:decimal;}li{line-height:18px;}ul.unstyled,ol.unstyled{margin-left:0;list-style:none;}dl{margin-bottom:18px;}dt,dd{line-height:18px;}dt{font-weight:bold;line-height:17px;}dd{margin-left:9px;}.dl-horizontal dt{float:left;width:120px;clear:left;text-align:right;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;}.dl-horizontal dd{margin-left:130px;}hr{margin:18px 0;border:0;border-top:1px solid #eeeeee;border-bottom:1px solid #ffffff;}strong{font-weight:bold;}em{font-style:italic;}.muted{color:#999999;}abbr[title]{cursor:help;border-bottom:1px dotted #ddd;}abbr.initialism{font-size:90%;text-transform:uppercase;}blockquote{padding:0 0 0 15px;margin:0 0 18px;border-left:5px solid #eeeeee;}blockquote p{margin-bottom:0;font-size:16px;font-weight:300;line-height:22.5px;}blockquote small{display:block;line-height:18px;color:#999999;}blockquote small:before{content:'\2014 \00A0';}blockquote.pull-right{float:right;padding-right:15px;padding-left:0;border-right:5px solid #eeeeee;border-left:0;}blockquote.pull-right p,blockquote.pull-right small{text-align:right;}q:before,q:after,blockquote:before,blockquote:after{content:"";}address{display:block;margin-bottom:18px;font-style:normal;line-height:18px;}small{font-size:100%;}cite{font-style:normal;}figure { margin: 0; }table { margin: 0 0 18px 0; }td,th { text-align: left; vertical-align: top; padding-bottom: 15px; } [img]cid:part1.5fg8YfFa.CVrhqO50(at)casema.nl[/img]
Geachte heer/mevrouw,
De Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid informeert u over de volgende updates.
Onderzoek Overtrek tijdens de start, Vliegveld Hilversum
Rapporten Appendix A - Responses received on draft report ‘Stalled during take-off, Hilversum Aerodrome' Link
Rapporten Overtrek tijdens de start (Samenvatting) Link
Rapporten Stalled during take-off, Hilversum aerodrome, 15 December 2018 Link
Onderzoeksfases Menselijke factoren
Rapporten Stalled during take-off, Hilversum aerodrome, 15 December 2018 Link
Bedankt en met vriendelijke groet,
Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid
Neem bij vragen contact op via info(at)onderzoeksraad.nl (info(at)onderzoeksraad.nl)
U ontvangt dit bericht omdat u staat ingeschreven op de mailinglijst voor persberichten van de Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid. Indien u voor deze mailinglijst wilt afmelden, of uw voorkeuren wilt aanpassen dan kunt u dit hier doen: [url=/nl/link/mailupdate?email=jan_de_jong%40casema.nl&tm=1643275176&z_access_url=true&use_absolure_url=true&z_access_url_token=HeCuZxvZJW7MxlH82b3O&z_access_url_nonce=hun9cIeKWOubB3OTvlMI&z_access_url_sig=5Mekx6TCHgXCqOapZnfjF98UpaBFBsYRRiM%2BB5F5doU%3D]Mijn abonnementen wijzigen[/url]
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Hitchflight
Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 92
Location: Derbyshire, England
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:20 pm Post subject: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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Thank you Bob for this link…In reading the investigation report, I come to:
| Quote: |
3.3.1 Incorrect trim setting
The trim position was found in the full AND position, which is not a normal setting for take-off as it creates unnatural control feel flight and the risk of a ground strike of the propeller.
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Might the capitalized AND be a typo?…instead of AND, perhaps substitute the word, AFT?
Fred
A194
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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:33 pm Post subject: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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G’day Fred,
Having not seen the AND and ANU terminology before, I found it a bit strange too.
The accident aircraft was trimmed fully nose down at the time of the accident referred to as AND being Aircraft Nose Down. Likewise ANU = Aircraft Nose Up.
Did you also notice the photo of the “left” tailplane in Fig 3 being in the full ANU position? On my aircraft, that is the right or starboard tailplane!!
Chat again soon mate.
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On 1 Feb 2022, at 1:28 pm, fklein(at)orcasonline.com wrote:
Thank you Bob for this link…In reading the investigation report, I come to:
| Quote: |
3.3.1 Incorrect trim setting
The trim position was found in the full AND position, which is not a normal setting for take-off as it creates unnatural control feel flight and the risk of a ground strike of the propeller.
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Might the capitalized AND be a typo?…instead of AND, perhaps substitute the word, AFT?
Fred
A194
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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Hi Kingsley,
figure 3 in the report shows on the left picture the elevator in ANU-position, which is correct, since the aircraft finally stalled in a steep climb (the Pilot obviously overrode the trim, which was in the full AND position as shown on the right picture).
So all is correct in the report as I can see it.
Regards
Roland
D-ERIG
XS TG 914
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:42 am Post subject: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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Except the indicator was correct for takeoff. Baffles me that a multihundred hour on type pilot would mismanage the stick due to excessive trim....especially in that direction.
PeteZ
On Tue., Feb. 1, 2022, 6:22 a.m. Roland, <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi Kingsley,
figure 3 in the report shows on the left picture the elevator in ANU-position, which is correct, since the aircraft finally stalled in a steep climb (the Pilot obviously overrode the trim, which was in the full AND position as shown on the right picture.
So all is correct in the report as I can see it.
Regards
Roland
D-ERIG
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:53 am Post subject: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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Roland,
I hastily retract my previous comment.
Referencing Fig 3, my eyes are not what they used to be and I didn’t see the colon ( after the word ‘Left’ meaning I read it as Left tailplane instead of a reference to the Left picture.
My apologies.
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On 1 Feb 2022, at 9:22 pm, Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de> wrote:
Hi Kingsley,
figure 3 in the report shows on the left picture the elevator in ANU-position, which is correct, since the aircraft finally stalled in a steep climb (the Pilot obviously overrode the trim, which was in the full AND position as shown on the right picture.
So all is correct in the report as I can see it.
Regards
Roland
D-ERIG
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505875#505875
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dmac7
Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 46
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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Hello Pete, What I get from the report is - the pilot had a habit of steep climbs after take-off and the plane had 6.5 liters of fuel in the main tank. C of G was in the middle 60.25" The plane was near sea level temps of +1C. Winds 15 to 23 kt. on the nose. It would have been a brisk performer on this day but with so little fuel would it have kept running at a steep angle of climb? I always believed in the long run our bad habits will bite us. I think overly steep climbs are a bad habit unless required for obstacle clearance. The trim is the only thing wrong they could find but then he always took off with three lines of nose down.
I will be careful on climb out myself, and make sure the airplane is configured for takeoff.
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Peter pender
Joined: 15 Jan 2021
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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dmac7, I think this might be possible, but you might think they would have checked where the fuel pickup was located in the tank. What about a big slug of water seeing the tank was so empty, a lot of moist air in there to condensate
since last flight all dependant on fuel drain setup and procedure.
I'm sure others do this as well but on walk around I check tail plane and trim are set for takeoff and then when in aircraft check the trim indicator agrees.
Cheers Peter
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budyerly@msn.com
Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 282
Location: Florida USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:04 pm Post subject: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid |
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Guys,
This is a condensed report of the Europa Accident from 2018. There will be corrections, Im sure. Im not going to be critical, but I do have a number of questions and observations:
As far as abbreviations: Read the Abbreviations, AND is Aircraft Nose Down etc.
Any time an Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft (EAB) is damaged/destroyed it reflects on all of us in the community. Loss of a pilot should make all of us pause and consider our procedures and operational techniques and training to prevent reoccurance.
Notes from my time in the conventional and mono and this particular investigation: - Trim should always be set and visually observed prior to takeoff or even climbing in. My technique is set the stab equal to the rebate and note the tab at roughly even with the stab (trim tab or near zero). (My Annex E setting.) Trusting an indicator is not sufficient. I check the pre-takeoff trim visually. This will most likely prevent takeoff with a trim at full deflection and make trim failure fairly comfortable to land with.
- The old analogue Ray Allen Trim indicator is not terribly accurate but is still an adequate trend instrument, good normally in my aircraft to be very close. It is not uncommon in all the aircraft I have built that both the digital and analogue indicators are set for takeoff somewhere in a level to nose down position of one to two bars from the middle position with the visual trim position near 1 as above. Thats life with indicators.
- Takeoff or landing with full trim up or down:
- Pitch forces at full nose down on takeoff are not really all that terrible. 10 pounds at takeoff speed to 75 knot climb is my estimate. Most people can hold that for about 5 minutes with the use of one hand only keeping the nose steady for one circuit to landing.
- Many civil pilots are not used to setting a pitch attitude then trimming to zero stick force in flight, and in my experience, I see wild pitch excursions of 0 to + 15 degrees nose high on takeoff due to the pilot not aggressively putting the nose where it needs to be for takeoff and holding it there no matter what (initial overcontrolling problem). My basic observation is the pilots death grip on the stick has them flying with abrupt arm input is a contributing factor to this lack of feel and pitch deviation of the inexperience Europa pilot. Experienced Europa pilots (100 hours in type) generally do not have this issue. As a technique in the Europa, I personally put the nose slightly above on the horizon for a 75-knot climb and just below the horizon for a 90-knot climb. The poor pilot pitch technique is exacerbated by pilot trainers failure to insist on pitch and power setting memorization for phases of flight. (Of course, it is disappointing to catch oneself with the cruise pitch and power settings off from my normal level off picture because the 10-degree takeoff flap setting was not retracted after takeoff. Been there, done that!) While on that subject, I have seen instructors that will not allow a student to perform a full flap landing to touch and go because they have been scared that the student allows the plane to hop into the air with full power, near full up trim and full flaps in the Cessna 150. I nearly smacked the instructor with me when after a very nice soft field approach and landing I immediately powered up, retracting the flaps to 20, trimming constantly, while holding the nose wheel slightly off the runway. The instructor grabbed the controls clearly in fear of a pitch up and after a rather short (colorful) comment from me he was coaxed off the controls. After I explained my technique and why it is so important to hold whatever pressure is necessary to keep the pitch proper for the configuration and power setting was an essential skill for a pilot to anticipate and learn. I then had him explore my technique and we had a good time trading landings and techniques.
- The 914/Constant Speed (CS) prop equipped Europa of any type will climb at a deck angle of 15-20 degrees at full power and a steady best angle of climb speed setting. This nose angle is quite high (nothing but sky, so pitch setting is difficult). Although the stall speed with 10 degrees of takeoff flap set appears to be 45 KIAS in the POH, in actuality, at full power with the 914/CS, the stall speed is much less. Even with a fixed pitch 912S a full power clean power on stall is incredibly nose high and the plane properly controlled, will keep a nose up (hang on the prop) pitch attitude for an uncomfortably long time with little indication of burble due to the large amount of prop wash.
- The post crash reference flight done with full nose down trim was referenced in the report for a climb 5 knots above the stall. That applies to this accident but is not a prudent climb attitude for the Europa. The pitch attitude is very high (deck angle) and difficult to set without practice and references even with proper trim at this low of a speed due to lack of outside references. Frankly at full power and 65 KIAS any engine minor hiccup will immediately bleed speed and a stall is going to result unless an immediate pitch down to 10-15 degrees nose down is made to regain/maintain airspeed. That is a 30- degree pitch change which most pilots are not ready to do when surprised by an engine failure. Why anyone would not attempt to get to best rate or L/D Max on takeoff as quickly as possible is beyond me unless there are obstacles on the runway boundary necessitating a best angle of climb speed be held. Then one should plan to never go to that field again, or if necessary to operate out of the short with high obstacle field one should really keep your engine well tuned with good fuel and practice often.
- Pitch attitude difficulties with full nose down trim is interesting. Again, I reiterate, a pilot should be able to hold a steady pitch attitude. Yes, the stick force is higher, but holding the pitch attitude steady is one of those pilot things that is essential for proper control. In commercial emergency training, runaway trim at critical phases (takeoff / climb runaway trim) is practiced in the simulator often to the embarrassment of the pilot(s) (although not done that often as the training tech is getting paid to make sure the pilots pass their EP trainer). The trainer and pilots then go over the why and how to correct this and if necessary, the exercise is practiced again until the evaluator and pilot are satisfied. Interesting that I make nearly all my customers fly at least once full nose up and full nose down for the experience since runaway or inop trim is always a possibility in any aircraft. Nice experiment and practice. I preach to check the trim visually as normally takeoffs are done with the tab neutral mostly. Later owner/operators make checklist changes if they need a bit of nose up or down to fit their takeoff style.
- I find a 150 meter takeoff roll (even light weight) in gusty head wind conditions on a grass strip a bit disconcerting. Even on a rough field, keeping the nose steady is not terribly difficult in the Europa. From the photo evidence once tail authority is achieved, I estimate the crash was most likely by eyeball about 200 meters from where he may have added full power for takeoff! His normal full takeoff roll should have been shorter due to headwind to be sure, but if the crash point is say 200 meters from brake release that indicates immediately after breaking ground the takeoff climb went up to a stall. The plane was probably horsed off the runway in my opinion. In the mishap pilots defense, the conventional or mono on a rough field may be thrown into the air by a very rough field and the pilot must maintain a proper pitch attitude to allow a safe retouch or safe fly off in ground effect recovery. The report mentioned runway conditions did not permit touch and go maneuvers. Why? Was it rough, too soft, too short or just an operational airfield directive? At 660 meters long it is a bit short considering the ditch at the approach end. My calculations off the top of my head is the takeoff should be hard surface 500 feet for a fully loaded 914 and in gusty hard surface conditions with a takeoff speed tail up of 50 KIAS minimum, but for a soft field I add 20% and I decrease roll 10% for the headwind component of 15 Knots and put the takeoff in a three point takeoff at approximately 45 KIAS minimum so roughly I expect a 550 foot/167 meters normal takeoff roll. That puts the aircraft airborne for only an additional 33 meters or so prior to the crash impact. At say 45 Kts that is 76 FPS/ 23 mps tells me the airplane may have been airborne only 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds (momentum still in stall/roll going up. A 914 climbs at 20 FPS or 6 mps would be about 10-15 meters high. Witnesses say 15-20 meters high. So that is in the ball park of off the top of the head calculations. I believe the witnesses were reasonable in their estimate.
- Back to full nose down trim. If the trim was full nose down, normally one would not pull excessively far back initially on the climb. Why? This is a tail dragger, so full aft stick is normally held during the takeoff roll to a minimum of 35 KIAS. Normally the stick is relaxed as the plane begins to initially rise and the takeoff pitch attitude maintained while the aircraft accelerates. Even with full nose down trim, the tail would want to rise for slightly easier forward stick. But not so much to be noticeable at normal liftoff speed. Say the forward stick was higher, the pilot would simply add about 5 pounds more pressure to get airborne when at flying speed or simply hold his takeoff attitude. Also full nose down would not promote an extreme nose high attitude initially after takeoff. So, I have questions on the assumption the trim was full up or down at the start. Why? In the photo it shows down at the top of the trim switch is pushed for DOWN (not unlike in my aircraft). If he had a tendency for steep climb outs immediately after takeoff, with normal takeoff or full up trim one would need to add more down trim immediately after takeoff due to the speed increase toward about 65 KIAS and frankly one would add more down trim to push over to a climb in most Europas. Could the pilot have simply added nose down trim while bringing the nose up from habit. Or was nose up trim from the last landing still set and on liftoff the nose flew up more aggressively than normal and he was slow to stop the nose up moment. Perhaps the pilot was trimming nose down and either due to being heads down looking for the trim switch the pitch control on takeoff began to become a problem and he added full nose down prior to the stalled loss of control. It takes about 10 seconds to go from nose full up to nose down. That is a long time. I dont think he had full nose up and held the trim for 10 seconds. My conclusion is I dont think it acceptable to assume that a full nose down trim was a factor since the aircraft did an aggressive climb and crashed so shortly after takeoff as the stick would have been held firmly full aft or near it until at or near liftoff (if the tail was raised at all prior to liftoff the stick would momentarily move a bit more forward than normal) until the plane was rotated for takeoff. It is conceivable that the pilot with full nose down failed to hold aft stick or he over rotated the nose down (tail up) faster than anticipated and he may have over controlled, and he allowed his overcontrol to continue to pitch up if he was startled. No one will know since the trim movement direction is not easily traced post accident.
- Also, the investigators failed to carefully look at wheel track to determine if there was any directional control problem or unevenness in the runway, but in their defense, by the time you get to an airfield for an investigation everybody has driven all over the evidence. If the tail was raised it is not easily seen on a grass strip where that happened without a careful observer watching. Perhaps the co-owner of the aircraft could comment on the pilots takeoff technique.
- The pilot had a history of doing what I call an airshow departure or showing off holding it down and zoom climb to best angle. However, on this day he had a short takeoff (possible lower speed than normal liftoff), steep climb (possible best angle attempt) in gusty conditions (but not that bad), which leads me to an early finding of poor pilot discipline/technique. These pilot takeoff observations are not conducive to a reasonable departure by a Light Aircraft Civil Pilot. One can only wonder. There is a little hot dog in all of us.
- Complete pilot 30/60/90 flight time was not in the report. Not reported was his age and occupation. His last flight recorded in the Europa appears to have been Dec 2018 so it appears he had currency (290 hours total PIC with pilot license in Feb 2017 and accident in Dec 2018 appears he flew about 290/22 months put him at 13 hours per month. What had he been flying in the meantime other than the Europa? What date did he have his Europa checkout or is he a builder/operator? If he was not the builder, who checked him out. Investigators probably have that but omitted it in this short report. Just for insurance purposes a prudent owner/operator would log his Europa checkout and log his flight time in each aircraft and all training flights practicing stalls, and emergency landing practice and type (No Flap, Soft Field, Min roll, etc.) to show currency and proficiency for insurance coverage documentation. This lack of logging, currency and his routine takeoff departure tendency is not prudent pilot action and a bit cavalier for a routine flight in my opinion, but that is me.
- The eyewitness (it would be nice to know the differences in the witnesses statements) report of 15-20 meters altitude at the stall and left roll departure from controlled flight is very disconcerting also. Assuming full power, right rudder is obviously needed for proper yaw control, and if the stall was encountered on departure to get a left roll meant either insufficient right rudder, and or input of right stick to control P factor roll. This is interesting to me. Since full back stick ANU (Aircraft Nose UP) was held until impact, the pilot most likely lost control in the stall and maintained a full aft stick as the plane departed controlled flight, rolled and impacted. One would assume full aft stick is a pure reaction to an unintended low altitude stall. Of course, there is insufficient data on control input history due to lack of black box aircraft recording instrumentation common in light aircraft and is only an assumption.
- Finally, it is obvious the plane had 870 hours, and began life as a mono. It was modified, (no discussion of the mod and post flight test) and apparently resold after about 5-600 (ish) hours? I find it sloppy that no where in the report is the post flyoff test flight data of PH-PGV on stall and characteristics from the logs (build log or aircraft log). Was the original builder interviewed? The testimony of the co-owner on the aircrafts characteristics and his partners flight time and performance are missing from this report. I find that unusual. Especially in a government condensed report. Perhaps in the long report it will be or has been included and was not deemed worthy of comment in this summary report. I find the lack of standard maintenance documentation on this aircraft a bit scant also. Who did the Annual and was he authorized? Since the aircraft had flown many hours since it was built in 1999 there must have been others who had flown it, modified it and flight tested it, were they interviewed or did the fail to participate?
As a former accident investigator (granted, years ago now) I have far too many questions that are unanswered. Perhaps the long report will have more. It is sad the investigation of experimental aircraft accidents do not get a lot of detail and is mostly assumptions as resources are normally given for commercial flight mishap investigations. So, is the bottom line stall spin and ignore, it is just an experimental bothers me. Until the LAA gets the long report I will stand by and let the investigators do their job.
It grieves me a perfectly good airplane and a nice pilot are lost. I cant see how we can prevent this from happening from the report. problem except
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Pete Zut
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2022 6:42 AM
To: europa-list <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Updates over Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid
Except the indicator was correct for takeoff. Baffles me that a multihundred hour on type pilot would mismanage the stick due to excessive trim....especially in that direction.
PeteZ
On Tue., Feb. 1, 2022, 6:22 a.m. Roland, <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)> wrote:
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