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albertakolbmk3
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 69
Location: Innisfail, AB
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 Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:06 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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Hi,
New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup?
Regards,
Tony Braun
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop |
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:45 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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64" is the limit in the UK for trigear. Of course that's not necessarily "safe" (liability disclaimer!).
Some (not all) conventional gear Europas have higher ground clearance than both the mono and tri, so larger prop diameters may be accepted, whilst still being compliant with CS-VLA.
DMcF.
| Quote: | On 23 December 2020 at 11:05 Anthony Braun <albertaflyer(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup?
Regards,
Tony Braun
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Peter jeffers
Joined: 24 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: hp143hr
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:03 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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1625mm or 64" dia.
Pete Jeffers
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Pete |
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Peter jeffers
Joined: 24 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: hp143hr
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:45 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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Further to my previous comment ie 1625mm or 64 inches diameter, please go to
the following link for all information about props certified in the UK for
fitting to various engines on various types of Europa.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/NewMods/Aircraft_Type_
Files/247%20-%20EUROPA.pdf
Regards
Pete Jeffers
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Pete |
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Peter jeffers
Joined: 24 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: hp143hr
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:56 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:55 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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Good morning Tony, does the engine manufacturer have any input as to which props they suggest? I used a Jabiru 3300 and they addressed the prop issue in their installation manual. Do you plan on a fixed pitch, ground adjustable, or constant speed prop? With the constant speed prop being the heaviest, have you done the W&B to make sure you stay inside the “box”? Just askin’. LOL
Mike Duane N377EA
Europa XS Conventional gear
Chandler, AZ
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Dec 23, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Wladimir Kummer <wladimirkummer(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Tony,
What engine is being considered? I´m building a Europa XS Long Wing and intend to use a 0200 as an engine. To accomodate a longer prop will make the thrust line 2" higher.
Best regards
Wladimir
Em qua., 23 de dez. de 2020 às 08:09, Anthony Braun <albertaflyer(at)gmail.com (albertaflyer(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Anthony Braun <albertaflyer(at)gmail.com (albertaflyer(at)gmail.com)>
Hi,
New to the list. I just purchased a Europa project and am going with a non standard engine. What is the maximum safe dia. Prop with a tricycle gear or conventional tail wheel setup?
Regards,
Tony Braun
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:46 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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Tony, If it is not too late I would suggest thinking very seriously about fitting any engine other than a Rotax. The plane was designed around the Rotax, it works superbly with the Rotax and if built carefully has an excellent load carrying capacity and excellent performance with a Rotax, particularly a 912S or 914. With my 914 and a Woodcomp CS prop I can exceed VNe on the flat at MAUW from 6500 ft upwards whilst having capacity for two good sized men, full fuel and luggage. Having been around the Europa scene for a couple of decades I have seen multiple episodes of folk regretting the decision to try some other sort of engine. I wouldn't knock the O-200 in airframes designed for it but it is appreciably heavier than the 912S or 914 and it is difficult to see any sensible advantage. When I analysed all the ditchings around the UK over a 20 yr period ( a few years back), of the 49 planes that went in the water, there were none powered by any Rotax 91variants, but quite a lot of Continentals. It is after all a much older design than the Rotax. Most people building carefully and fitting a Rotax will end up with an empty weight between 820 and 880 lbs (but totals well up in the 900s are not unknown). With a MAUW of 1370 lbs this gives a total useable weight or load capacity for crew and baggage of between 550 and 480lbs (that is 250 - 218kg). Baggage capacity is 80 lbs /36kg and if you are touring you may well find you need all of that. And if you are to take a couple of average chaps of 185lbs/85kg you are clearly left making compromises which will be quite restricting if your build is on the heavy side even before you fit a heavy engine.
Best wishes, David Joyce
On 2020-12-23 11:05, Anthony Braun wrote:
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:36 am Post subject: Prop dia. |
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David
I thoroughly endorse David's comment. It's hard enough to build a plane without the additional challenge of a non standard engine. I almost went down the Subaru route and so glad I didnt - I did a thing which I almost never do...I followed advice
What MAP settings do you use on your 914 for max continuous and for cruise?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 12:49 PM <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Tony, If it is not too late I would suggest thinking very seriously about fitting any engine other than a Rotax. The plane was designed around the Rotax, it works superbly with the Rotax and if built carefully has an excellent load carrying capacity and excellent performance with a Rotax, particularly a 912S or 914. With my 914 and a Woodcomp CS prop I can exceed VNe on the flat at MAUW from 6500 ft upwards whilst having capacity for two good sized men, full fuel and luggage. Having been around the Europa scene for a couple of decades I have seen multiple episodes of folk regretting the decision to try some other sort of engine. I wouldn't knock the O-200 in airframes designed for it but it is appreciably heavier than the 912S or 914 and it is difficult to see any sensible advantage. When I analysed all the ditchings around the UK over a 20 yr period ( a few years back), of the 49 planes that went in the water, there were none powered by any Rotax 91variants, but quite a lot of Continentals. It is after all a much older design than the Rotax. Most people building carefully and fitting a Rotax will end up with an empty weight between 820 and 880 lbs (but totals well up in the 900s are not unknown). With a MAUW of 1370 lbs this gives a total useable weight or load capacity for crew and baggage of between 550 and 480lbs (that is 250 - 218kg). Baggage capacity is 80 lbs /36kg and if you are touring you may well find you need all of that. And if you are to take a couple of average chaps of 185lbs/85kg you are clearly left making compromises which will be quite restricting if your build is on the heavy side even before you fit a heavy engine.
Best wishes, David Joyce
On 2020-12-23 11:05, Anthony Braun wrote:
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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