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a compass question

 
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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the “Navigator” compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.

I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slack…i.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.

And I’m wondering what that "optimum position” might be…?…

With only “hangar flying” experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircraft’s centerline…

A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerline…

Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?

Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?…or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for what’s become a little anachronism?

Advice and counsel appreciated,

Fred
A194


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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

Fred, Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it!
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ


On 2019-02-19 19:52, Fred Klein wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>

Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the "Navigator" compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.

I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slack...i.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.

And I'm wondering what that "optimum position" might be...?...

With only "hangar flying" experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircraft's centerline...

A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerline...

Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?

Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?...or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for what's become a little anachronism?

Advice and counsel appreciated,

Fred
A194
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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

thank you David
Quote:
On Feb 19, 2019, at 1:28 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:

Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it!
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ


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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:15 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

[img]cid:572B3767-7A89-4816-BC78-4498DFF1C6D3[/img]

Hi Fred,
I incorporated a compass ‘holder’ within the home made roof composite lining as seen in this photo. I designed it around a 747-400 compass moulding when bored flying over the Pacific years ago. I placed a blue aluminium plate to secure the compass.
Great position to read the compass with a compass swing card reading on the side.
However, I do believe obsolescence has crept in regarding a compass with all the other
direction finding instruments of today. We have to have one as an electrical failure is always a risk.


All the best,
Tim


Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221


On 20/02/2019, at 10:37 AM, Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
thank you David
Quote:
On Feb 19, 2019, at 1:28 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:

Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it!
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ



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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:15 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

Fred


[img]cid:ii_jscbrq451[/img]

 stuck mine on the roof - I reckon that is what david recommends.  I assumed that it might be influenced by the electronics if I stuck it on top of the instrument module

Will
William Daniell

LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 4:21 PM Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>

Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the “Navigator” compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.

I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slack…i.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.

And I’m wondering what that "optimum position” might be…?…

With only “hangar flying” experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircraft’s centerline…

A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerline…

Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?

Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?…or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for what’s become a little anachronism?

Advice and counsel appreciated,

Fred
A194
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

Here in canada we are lucky in that a simple tiny automotive suction cup ball compass meets our amateur built reg's, with all normal business being taken care of with the panel glass these days.
Cheers,
Pete

On Feb 19, 2019, at 4:37 PM, Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
thank you David
Quote:
On Feb 19, 2019, at 1:28 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:

Along with most of my friends my compass is at the top of the screen in midline and has worked well. In UK we are still required to have one, but you are right that it is becoming less used/useful than it was with EFIS and GPS offering rather more user friendly options. There is the point of course that the compass will carry on working even if you are clean out of electricity so I wouldn't encourage you to bin it!
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ



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freddythek10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

Quote:
On Feb 19, 2019, at 2:14 PM, Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:
I incorporated a compass ‘holder’ within the home made roof composite lining as seen in this photo. I designed it around a 747-400 compass moulding when bored flying over the Pacific years ago. I placed a blue aluminium plate to secure the compass.


Holy cow Tim…what an outstanding set up…thanks for the pix!…

BTW, I could not resist an allusion to “heavy iron” by incorporating a few toggles in the overhead.

[img]cid:667F3734-C3E3-4CF9-834B-65049EF4A079(at)Home[/img]


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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:41 pm    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

Looks great Fred, well done.Tim

Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221


On 20/02/2019, at 1:41 PM, Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
On Feb 19, 2019, at 2:14 PM, Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:
I incorporated a compass ‘holder’ within the home made roof composite lining as seen in this photo. I designed it around a 747-400 compass moulding when bored flying over the Pacific years ago. I placed a blue aluminium plate to secure the compass.


Holy cow Tim…what an outstanding set up…thanks for the pix!…

BTW, I could not resist an allusion to “heavy iron” by incorporating a few toggles in the overhead.

<DSCN7310.jpeg>


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Hitchflight



Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 92
Location: Derbyshire, England

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: a compass question Reply with quote

Positioned high up works for me as well.

The point of correct compass position was underscored to me when my small Smiths Compass leaked fluid at high altitude and became stuck. Consequently giving a wrong indication of direction.

Back in the hangar I removed the Smiths compass, thinking that I would fix sometime. Meantime I intended to use a large new Garmin Compass that I had. I lined up the aircraft with known directions. Then exercised a compass swing check. The deviation was consistently severe, but also varied in severity dependant on direction. I concluded that nearby wiring was disturbing the Garmin Compass unit.

A few days later went to Cooke & Son in Hull and they fixed my Smiths Compass. Back home put the unit back in position. Perfect, no deviation.

So I guess my comment would be some compass units seem more sensitive to interference than others. The Smiths uses a special oil and dampers. The small size of the Smiths unit was perhaps also a factor.

For those who do the UK biennial IRR check, the compass is one of the required instruments, though weirdly a GPS isn’t..

Bob


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budyerly(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject: a compass question Reply with quote

Mike,
Balancing your prop will get rid of most of that also. Even at .07 (considered a fine balance) one can feel the shaking at this out of balance condition on a two blade. Get the prop down to .04 or better on a two blade prop helps vibration quite a bit. Three blade props feel smoother because they change the frequency of the pulses but they two should get a very fine balance.

We have all gotten lazy as propeller manufacturers all statically balance their props. However the spinner and on some gearbox engines, the rotational balance of the engine/prop together still need to be fine tuned.


Best Regards,
Bud Yerly

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of duanefamly(at)aol.com <duanefamly(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:24:39 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: a compass question

Hey Fred,


While Im not using the same Navigator compass as you, my compass is mounted centered on top of the instrument panel halfway back from the front edge. The problem that arose once I started flying, and it may only be my problem, is that this area is not very rigid and my compass vibrates..a lot. Enough so that I added some stiffening to the underside of the instrument module. While it did help, it did not alleviate it completely. I just wanted you be aware prior to your decision as this may have some adverse effects for your compass.


Mike Duane
N377EA Europa XS Conventional Gear
Las Vegas, NV



Sent from Windows Mail



From: Fred Klein (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:52 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)



--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com>

Along with my Europa kit, I ordered the Navigator compass which was offered as an accessory at the time of purchase.

I ask because the mounting procedure offers little slacki.e., no second chance...and I want to get it right the first time.

And Im wondering what that "optimum position might be?

With only hangar flying experience, my sense is that the best position would be to mount the adhesive pad provided as high as possible on the windscreen, along the aircrafts centerline

A different approach would be to rotate the bracket with the mounting pad and adhere it to the top of the instrument panel module, again on the aircraft centerline

Or is there, perhaps, another alternative?

Have Europa pilots with in-flight experience settled this question?or has the digital world eliminated the need or desirability for whats become a little anachronism?

Advice and counsel appreciated,

Fred
A194
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