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Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

 
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Harv



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:35 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

Good morning gents

Just a quick one to ask what you guys are working to with your FAA’s rules regarding HS6/M14P engine life?

In the UK with have agreed engine hours before their overhaul and possibly some extension on condition (on a case by case basis) but I have recently been advised we have a ‘discussion’ coming up regarding calendar life being imposed (which will probably mean lots of engines being scrapped).

If you have or can point me in the direction of your authorities rules I’d be most greatful as i will then sift through your regs and can maybe reason with the rule setters to leave things as they are.
Rgs
M


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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:59 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

Because our CJ's and Yak's are certified in the Experimental category,
there are no TBO's or life limits on the engines (Housai or M14).
Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1

On 12/3/2018 6:35 AM, Harv wrote:
Quote:


Good morning gents

Just a quick one to ask what you guys are working to with your FAA’s rules regarding HS6/M14P engine life?

In the UK with have agreed engine hours before their overhaul and possibly some extension on condition (on a case by case basis) but I have recently been advised we have a ‘discussion’ coming up regarding calendar life being imposed (which will probably mean lots of engines being scrapped).

If you have or can point me in the direction of your authorities rules I’d be most greatful as i will then sift through your regs and can maybe reason with the rule setters to leave things as they are.
Rgs
M


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Harv



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

Thanks Dennis
So that also covers your prop and hub with no TBO or calendar life on those?
Also appreciate anymore comments from around the globe, how about rules in Canada? New Zealand and Australia?

Rgs
Martin


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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:37 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

That's correct.
Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1

On 12/3/2018 7:16 AM, Harv wrote:
Quote:


Thanks Dennis
So that also covers your prop and hub with no TBO or calendar life on those?
Also appreciate anymore comments from around the globe, how about rules in Canada? New Zealand and Australia?

Rgs
Martin


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486103#486103




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GeorgeCoy



Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 308

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

Martin, Just to be clear, the U.S experimental Exhibition category uses "On
Condition" for the life of the engines and propellers. It does NOT mean "Fly
to Failure". The aircraft requires an annual inspection and a FAA certified
mechanic has to sign that he or she considers the aircraft (including engine
and propeller) as airworthy.
George Coy

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CarterM



Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

In Canada piston engines can go on condition as long as they're not in commercial operation.

Constant-speed propellers have to be overhauled either: every 10 years from date of installation, or every 1500 hours (single-acting propellers)/2000 hours (double-acting propellers) - whichever comes first.


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gardcycl



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

Some Aussie Warbird Reading material on Yaks and CJ, engines and props
http://australianwarbirds.com.au/engineering/

Engineering | Australian Warbirds Association Ltd
I would like to bring to the attention of all T6/SNJ/Havard and Wirraway owners, UK CAA AD G-2013-001. The inspection criteria of this AD is a little more comprehensive than the associated FAA AD.
australianwarbirds.com.au




Regards Peter Gardiner

BRIBIE ISLAND,
Queensland...4507
0417646838




From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of CarterM <cmann1.cm(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2018 1:20 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

--> Yak-List message posted by: "CarterM" <cmann1.cm(at)gmail.com>

In Canada piston engines can go beyond TBO as long as they're not in commercial operation.

Constant-speed propellers have to be overhauled either: every 10 years from date of installation, or every 1500 hours (single-acting propellers)/2000 hours (double-acting propellers) - whichever comes first.




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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

George
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding of the regulations that the mechanic signing off the inspection is certifying the aircraft is "In a condition for safe operation" as it says in the aircraft's Operating Limitation. Not "Airworthy". Airworthy, by FAA definitions and regulations means the aircraft meets its original Type Certificate (which of course the Yak and CJ do not have) and any STC's (Supplemental Type Certificates) added or removed from the aircraft during its life, plus any Airworthiness Directives (AD's) have also be complied with.
Dennis

From: George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P


--> Yak-List message posted by: "George S. Coy" <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>

Martin, Just to be clear, the U.S experimental Exhibition category uses "On

Condition" for the life of the engines and propellers. It does NOT mean "Fly

to Failure". The aircraft requires an annual inspection and a FAA certified

mechanic has to sign that he or she considers the aircraft (including engine

and propeller) as airworthy.

George Coy

--


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GeorgeCoy



Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 308

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

While the owner or operator is primarily responsible by this rule it does not relieve the pilot from the responsibility of determining the airworthiness of the aircraft prior to and during a flight (Ref: Section 91.7) or a mechanic from performing airworthy repairs (Ref: Section 43.13).

That is what the FAR’s say.
I think the airworthiness with respect to experimental have to do with the special airworthiness certificate not the type certificate, but you could be right as well.  

Anyway we can split hairs with the lawyers all day, but the point I was making that our experimental aircraft are “on condition” and that is determined by the owner and the person signing it off, not by a set of rules offered up by a government body.

George Coy

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 12:28 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

George

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding of the regulations that the mechanic signing off the inspection is certifying the aircraft is "In a condition for safe operation" as it says in the aircraft's Operating Limitation. Not "Airworthy". Airworthy, by FAA definitions and regulations means the aircraft meets its original Type Certificate (which of course the Yak and CJ do not have) and any STC's (Supplemental Type Certificates) added or removed from the aircraft during its life, plus any Airworthiness Directives (AD's) have also be complied with.

Dennis


From: George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P


--> Yak-List message posted by: "George S. Coy" <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>



Martin, Just to be clear, the U.S experimental Exhibition category uses "On

Condition" for the life of the engines and propellers. It does NOT mean "Fly

to Failure". The aircraft requires an annual inspection and a FAA certified

mechanic has to sign that he or she considers the aircraft (including engine

and propeller) as airworthy.

George Coy



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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

Harv.

Canada is different than the US. There is no Experimental/ Exhibition
category. The CJ and other similar aircraft (ex-military and certain other
aircraft which have never carried a Civil Type Certificate) are licensed
under a Special C of A, Limited Category.

Maintenance and Inspection requirements are the same as any other Privately
Registered, Type Certificated aircraft of similar type. ie: Annual
inspection and certification by a Licensed AME.

As with any other PRIVATELY registered aircraft with a piston type engine
the engine is automatically On Condition upon aircraft registration. The
engine life is governed by condition determined at each Annual.

Not so simple with the propellor! Transport Canada did us all a big favor
(according to them) years ago by mandating a 10 year calendar overhaul of
ALL variable pitch propellors, whether certificated aircraft or not.
The favor was to the owners of cert. types with McCauley or Hartzell props.
who in the US are subject to manufacturers Service Bulletins recommending
calendar overhaul at five and six years for various models. This was not a
mandated requirement in the US but of course could considered as such by
insurance companies. In Canada that was overridden by a 10 year legal
mandate.

Walt

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Harv



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

Naturally I do not expect to fly the aircraft until the engine or prop fails. We currently perform in depth annual inspections every 50hrs, annually and every 3 years in accordance with an agreed schedule (mine is specific to my cj6 which was agreed against using the translated Chinese maint document for the required periodic inspections).

I will look further into the links supplied, with many thanks
Martin


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jlpartington(at)reagan.co
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P Reply with quote

anyone got a stock CJ-6 engine or two?

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