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Wig-Wag wiring

 
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JOHN TIPTON



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:45 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Hi Guys (Bob)

I'm going to incorporate the Perihelion design Wig-Wag (c version) module

Http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm

in my landing lights, the call out, wiring diagram 'B' for a single switch is a DP3T, I'm trying to relate this to 'Table 11-1' (S700 series toggle switches) is it a 2-10, if so can you help with the connections

John


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:39 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

At 04:45 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>

Hi Guys (Bob)

I'm going to incorporate the Perihelion design Wig-Wag (c version) module

Http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm

in my landing lights, the call out, wiring diagram 'B' for a single switch is a DP3T, I'm trying to relate this to 'Table 11-1' (S700 series toggle switches) is it a 2-10, if so can you help with the connections

John


[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20181110073102.0583fe90(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img]

To the best of my knowledge, the device
depicted does not exist in a toggle switch.
A 2-10 can be wired for SINGLE pole, three
position operation which would need a
couple of diodes added to implement the
'both-on' function in the center with the
OFF being full down.

A 2-1 switch can be used with no added
diodes but the operation would be BOTH (down),
OFF (center) and WIGWAG (up).

I can sketch a schematic for either . . .
your choice.

What kind of landing lights are you installing?





Bob . . .


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1906
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

I do not trust switches that depend entirely on rivets to conduct current.
http://www.bandc.aero/toggleswitch-doublepole.aspx
Click on the small pictures on the above website. Notice that the rivets go through plastic. If that plastic flows over time, the electrical connection could fail.
The most economical and perhaps easiest to wire switch is a DPDT with center off. ON-OFF-ON Do NOT buy a switch that has parentheses, for instance (ON)-OFF-ON. Parentheses indicates a momentary position.
Once you have the switch in hand, it is easy to figure out how to connect it by using a test light or ohm meter.
DP3T switches are available from electronic parts suppliers like Mouser and Digikey.
https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2jZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z28fZ1z0z2o3&Ns=Pricing|0
DPDT switches:
https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2jZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z2xkZ1z0z2qcZ1z0z810Z1z0z80lZ1yy48toZ1yyg5u9Z1z0jl5uZ1z0zlgaZ1z0sf9tZ1z0zlgkZ1yzs6ii&Ns=Pricing%7c0
A center off switch could be mounted so that the on positions are left and right instead of up and down.


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1906
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Wiring diagram using a DPDT center-off switch.

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John M Tipton



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Hi Bob

Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the ‘Duckworks’ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17
Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LED’s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated
Regards: John

Sent from my iPad

----x--O--x----
On 10 Nov 2018, at 1:38 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 04:45 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)>

Hi Guys (Bob)

I'm going to incorporate the Perihelion design Wig-Wag (c version) module

Http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm

in my landing lights, the call out, wiring diagram 'B' for a single switch is a DP3T, I'm trying to relate this to 'Table 11-1' (S700 series toggle switches) is it a 2-10, if so can you help with the connections

John


<337ad9d.jpg>

To the best of my knowledge, the device
depicted does not exist in a toggle switch.
A 2-10 can be wired for SINGLE pole, three
position operation which would need a
couple of diodes added to implement the
'both-on' function in the center with the
OFF being full down.

A 2-1 switch can be used with no added
diodes but the operation would be BOTH (down),
OFF (center) and WIGWAG (up).

I can sketch a schematic for either . . .
your choice.

What kind of landing lights are you installing?





Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Hi Bob

Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the ‘Duckworks’ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17

Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LED’s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated

Regards: John

Here 'tis . . .

[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20181110122916.05298400(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img]



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

At 09:36 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>

I do not trust switches that depend entirely on rivets to conduct current.

It is true that we've chronicled a hand full
of failures in the S700 series switches here
on the List over the years . . . but few
of the total were precipitated by loosening
of the rivets.

Here is one failure analysis conducted
on a Lister's experience:

https://tinyurl.com/2a2qqp



This style of switch by Carling was used on
tens of thousands of TC aircraft for a couple
decades. Aircraft represent a tiny fraction of
total sales for the product line.

The failure rate, while not zero, has been
exceedingly small and driven mostly by
the latest generation of strobe lights that
feature constant power high voltage supplies . . .
they draw substantially more current during
pre-flight ops with the engine not running.

I think a search of the List archives will
turn up some threads on other failures, most
having root cause OTHER than loose rivets.

Bottom line is that while there is good
cause to be skeptical of the rivets-thru-
plastic joints, experience has demonstrated
the mechanical stability of Carling's choice
of plastic.





Bob . . .


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John M Tipton



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Brilliant - thank you

John

Sent from my iPad

----x--O--x----
On 10 Nov 2018, at 6:30 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Hi Bob

Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the ‘Duckworks’ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17

Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LED’s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated

Regards: John

Here 'tis . . .

<44257b6.jpg>



Bob . . .


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John M Tipton



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodes

John

Sent from my iPad

 ----x--O--x----
On 10 Nov 2018, at 6:30 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Hi Bob

Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the ‘Duckworks’ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17

Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LED’s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated

Regards: John

Here 'tis . . .

<44257b6.jpg>



Bob . . .


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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

John, 
Those are Schottky diodes (which sow up as 'obsolete' on the Digikey web page).
Lots of Shottky dual diodes, and singles as well, on ebay & Amazon.
ex (but no provision for heat sink):
https://smile.amazon.com/AKOAK-Schottky-Blocking-Diodes-15SQ045/dp/B01CXOQMJ8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1541891561&sr=8-4&keywords=schottky+diode

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:35 PM John Tipton <john(at)tiptonuk.eu (john(at)tiptonuk.eu)> wrote:

Quote:
PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodes 

John

Sent from my iPad

     ----x--O--x----
On 10 Nov 2018, at 6:30 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Hi Bob

Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the ‘Duckworks’ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17

Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LED’s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated

Regards: John

 Here 'tis . . .

<44257b6.jpg>



  Bob . . .




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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1906
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

How abouit DSTF3060CR Schottky, 2 diodes in one TO-220-2 package, available at Mouser? Save on shipping cost by ordering Schottky diodes and current limiters from same source.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

At 04:30 PM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodes


Yes. You use the common annode (-) terminal
as the power input from the switch. Tie the
AC (~) terminals to each light. Ingnore the
common cathode (+) termial.


Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

At 06:10 PM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>

How abouit DSTF3060CR Schottky, 2 diodes in one TO-220-2 package, available at Mouser?

That would work, but the el-cheapo bridge would be good too . . .

Quote:
Save on shipping cost by ordering Schottky diodes and current limiters from same source.


Current limiters not necessary for anything
but the really BIG incandescent lamps . . . and
even then, their benefit is probably hard
to quantify.


Bob . . .


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1906
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Quote:
Current limiters not necessary for anything
but the really BIG incandescent lamps . . . and
even then, their benefit is probably hard
to quantify.

I only mentioned current limiters because a highly respected contributor to this forum had included them in his drawing posted above. Smile


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John M Tipton



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Hi Bob

Thank you: and for LED landing lights just a simple swap over - yes
John

Sent from my iPad

----x--O--x----
On 11 Nov 2018, at 1:49 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 04:30 PM 11/10/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodes


Yes. You use the common annode (-) terminal
as the power input from the switch. Tie the
AC (~) terminals to each light. Ingnore the
common cathode (+) termial.


Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Quote:

> Current limiters not necessary for anything
> but the really BIG incandescent lamps . . . and
> even then, their benefit is probably hard
> to quantify.

I only mentioned current limiters because a highly respected
contributor to this forum had included them in his drawing posted above. Smile

Yeah, my bad. The conditional callout
for current limiters got cropped off
the original art from Eric's website.

Did some dynamic studies of the current draw
by incandescent lamps in wig-wag systems
about a decade back. Seems 55w and larger
lamps don't have time to cool off between
flashes. The only time they present the
typical cold-lamp inrush is on first
light . . . every subsequent flash is
quite benign for 'start up' current.


Bob . . .


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John M Tipton



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

Hi Bob - Further to your diagram (2-10, Off-Both-Wig-wag) you have a permanently live lead (terminal 2) going to the wig-wag unit, would it not be better (good practice) to put this lead on terminal 1, making that lead 'hot' only when the switch is in one of it's two 'on' states - Regards: John

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring Reply with quote

At 05:38 PM 11/17/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John M Tipton" <john(at)tiptonuk.eu>

Hi Bob - Further to your diagram (2-10, Off-Both-Wig-wag) you have a permanently live lead (terminal 2) going to the wig-wag unit, would it not be better (good practice) to put this lead on terminal 1, making that lead 'hot' only when the switch is in one of it's two 'on' states - Regards: John


The artifact you've cited was left
over from Eric's original drawing, but
your suggested modification sure wouldn't hurt . . .


Bob . . .


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