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gps and alternator.

 
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bobnoffs



Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 72
Location: northern wi.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:54 am    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

hi all,
i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4'' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?
thanks,
bob noffs


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> wrote:



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)>

hi all,

i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?

thanks,

bob noffs

Read this topic online here:

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bobnoffs



Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 72
Location: northern wi.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

thanks, good news ernest.

 bob
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On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)>

hi all,

i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?

thanks,

bob noffs

Read this topic online here:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. They’re usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it.

On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
thanks, good news ernest.

bob
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)>

hi all,

i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?

thanks,

bob noffs

Read this topic online here:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

If what you heard on the interwebs is worth anything to you, I'm aware of numerous RV-x a/c builders that say they have installed a shelf high on the firewall in the engine compartment and have excellent GPS performance. The newer stuff is so good, it's much better at locking on to signals than we might expect. And at least for the newer VFR stuff, many of the receivers will use whatever is in the sky at the moment; US, Euro, Russian, etc. So the odds of seeing four of *somebody's* satellites are really good.

For temperatures, I'm not really sure which is worse; 140-150 degree air under the cowl while flying, or about the same temps (possibly worse, where I live) continuously if the plane is left in the sun on the ground and the puck is mounted on the glare shield.

Charlie

On 6/2/2018 4:11 PM, Alec Myers wrote:

Quote:
But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. They’re usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it.

On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


thanks, good news ernest.

 bob


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On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.



On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)>



hi all,

i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?

thanks,

bob noffs









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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:15 am    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:




But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. They’re usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it.
On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
thanks, good news ernest.
bob
Virus-free. www.avast.com [/url]
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (
echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)>

hi all,
i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?
thanks,
bob noffs


Read this topic online here:

[url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579]http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

Ernest:
Even if your cowl is fiberglass...  You will be blocking satellite reception when they are low on the horizon.
And what about the firewall?  Isn't that meal?  The you will be blocking in that direction as well.
What about HEAT?  What is the operation and storage temperatures for the antenna?
You can always call the manufacture and get their recommendations?
Cutting drag is important, but so is navigation and with ADS-B so is being seen.  <-- I don't know if this is connected to ADS-B?
Barry
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)>

hi all,

i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?

thanks,

bob noffs

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

The PCB, traces, ground planes and assorted electronic components inside the antenna module package and under the antenna element sure aren’t transparent.
Is Bob planning to mount it with the cable entry at the bottom and route the coax outside the cowl?

On Jun 4, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> wrote:

A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals.
On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:
But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. They’re usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it.

On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> wrote:

thanks, good news ernest.
bob

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> wrote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.
On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> wrote:


hi all,
i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?
thanks,
bob noffs


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579


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JohnInReno



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

bobnoffs wrote:
hi all,
i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4'' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?
thank
bob noffs


I reluctantly moved my GPS antenna to the glare shield because of occasional "drop outs". I left the XM radio antenna under the cowl.


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1521
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

I've been flying for a couple years with my Dynon GPS-250 under the
cowl, just in front of the firewall and behind the metal engine baffles.
No problem for driving my Dynon Skyview displays. OTOH, I mounted my IFR
GTN650 antenna where Garmin calls for it, on top of the fiberglass
cabin, rather than bury it inside the glass. Guess which antenna is more
sensitive and sees satellites first.............The Dynon will pick up
enough satellites with the hangar door part way open, while the Garmin
requires vertical view of the sky.

On 6/4/2018 5:17 PM, JohnInReno wrote:
Quote:



bobnoffs wrote:
> hi all,
> i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?
> thank
> bob noffs


I reluctantly moved my GPS antenna to the glare shield because of occasional "drop outs". I left the XM radio antenna under the cowl.

--------
John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale




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kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

I've seen quite a few GPS mounted under the boot cowl, but not on the engine side of the firewall. I would be more concerned about heat than reception. Right now my SuperSTOL is in my shop, which has a metal roof and a metal door, and my Dynon GPS has no problem at all locking on. That said, I did choose to mount the GPS right on top of the airplane. Most of the SuperSTOLs and Highlanders I have seen either put it under the boot cowl (fiberglass) or on top of the glare shield.

Ken


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 3:43 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Ernest:
Even if your cowl is fiberglass...  You will be blocking satellite reception when they are low on the horizon.
And what about the firewall?  Isn't that meal?  The you will be blocking in that direction as well.
What about HEAT?  What is the operation and storage temperatures for the antenna?
You can always call the manufacture and get their recommendations?
Cutting drag is important, but so is navigation and with ADS-B so is being seen.  <-- I don't know if this is connected to ADS-B?
Barry
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bobnoffs" <icubob(at)gmail.com (icubob(at)gmail.com)>

hi all,

i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?

thanks,

bob noffs

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480579#480579

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

Alec,

Are we on the same page? The proposal is not *under* the cowl. It's
*inside* the cowl, on a shelf, mounted to the firewall just under the
*top* of the cowl. Cable would go through the firewall, like other
electrical stuff.

Charlie

On 6/4/2018 7:09 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
Quote:


The PCB, traces, ground planes and assorted electronic components inside the antenna module package and under the antenna element sure aren’t transparent.
Is Bob planning to mount it with the cable entry at the bottom and route the coax outside the cowl?

On Jun 4, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> wrote:

A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals.
On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:
But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. They’re usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it.

On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> wrote:

thanks, good news ernest.
bob

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> wrote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.
On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> wrote:


hi all,
i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?
thanks,
bob noffs



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

“I have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl“....

My bad: I interpreted that as “on the bottom surface of the cowl facing downwards” :/
Which, to be fair, would work just fine for whole lot of other antennas...

On Jun 4, 2018, at 21:41, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Alec,

Are we on the same page? The proposal is not *under* the cowl. It's *inside* the cowl, on a shelf, mounted to the firewall just under the *top* of the cowl. Cable would go through the firewall, like other electrical stuff.

Charlie

Quote:
On 6/4/2018 7:09 PM, Alec Myers wrote:


The PCB, traces, ground planes and assorted electronic components inside the antenna module package and under the antenna element sure aren’t transparent.
Is Bob planning to mount it with the cable entry at the bottom and route the coax outside the cowl?



On Jun 4, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> wrote:

A fiberglass cowling is practically transparent to GPS signals.


On Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:13 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:


But a GPS antenna needs a good view of the sky. They’re usually mounted on top of the aircraft, not under it.

On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:21, bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> wrote:

thanks, good news ernest.
bob

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> wrote:
The frequency that GPS works at is so far above anything the alternator produces, I can't imagine them ever being able to cross talk.


On Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:56 AM, bobnoffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> wrote:




hi all,
i have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl but they would be within 4' of the alternator. will i be asking for trouble?
thanks,
bob noffs



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bobnoffs



Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 72
Location: northern wi.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:02 am    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

correct like charlie said.......fwf, on a shelf at top of firewall under
the top of cowl.
bob

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On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:04 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:

[quote]

“I have a really easy place to mount my gps antennas under the cowl“....

My bad: I interpreted that as “on the bottom surface of the cowl facing
downwards” :/
Which, to be fair, would work just fine for whole lot of other antennas..


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Dave Hurd



Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

First time responder, so please excuse my fat fingers.....

Put a mounting bracket high in the engine compartment of the Glasair just forward of the firewall, as I had seen an RV-8A builder do with his GPS antenna - (fiberglass cowling on the RV.)

Over 220 hours on the airplane including 3 IFR round trips from just east of Buffalo to Central Florida. No problems with the WAAS at all. The autopilot (and sometimes yours truly) can shoot LPV approaches right down to 200 or 250 foot decision heights.

The only caveat is to be sure the paint that goes on the cowling has no metal in it. Some really slick looking paints have tiny metal flakes that make them look great, but I'm told can mess up reception if the GPS antenna is inside the cowling.

Heat has not been a problem, and difficulty picking up satellites low on the horizon has never been an issue. Just guessing here, but the "geometry" of such sources would seem to be less useful to the receiver than a source higher in the sky.

Also have an Aspen which has it's own GPS receiver. If I recall the installation instructions for that unit, it indicated an internal location for the antenna would be OK in a plastic airplane, but there would not be a source for outside air temp, which it uses for TAS calculations. So I mounted it on the outside top of the cabin, just aft of the doors.

Dave

[quote="bobnoffs"]correct like charlie said.......fwf, on a shelf at top of firewall under
the top of cowl.
bob


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: gps and alternator. Reply with quote

At 04:11 PM 6/5/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Hurd" <dbhurd(at)att.net>

First time responder, so please excuse my fat fingers.....

Put a mounting bracket high in the engine compartment of the Glasair just forward of the firewall, as I had seen an RV-8A builder do with his GPS antenna - (fiberglass cowling on the RV.)

Over 220 hours on the airplane including 3 IFR round trips from just east of Buffalo to Central Florida. No problems with the WAAS at all. The autopilot (and sometimes yours truly) can shoot LPV approaches right down to 200 or 250 foot decision heights.

The only caveat is to be sure the paint that goes on the cowling has no metal in it. Some really slick looking paints have tiny metal flakes that make them look great, but I'm told can mess up reception if the GPS antenna is inside the cowling.

Heat has not been a problem, and difficulty picking up satellites low on the horizon has never been an issue. Just guessing here, but the "geometry" of such sources would seem to be less useful to the receiver than a source higher in the sky.

Also have an Aspen which has it's own GPS receiver. If I recall the installation instructions for that unit, it indicated an internal location for the antenna would be OK in a plastic airplane, but there would not be a source for outside air temp, which it uses for TAS calculations. So I mounted it on the outside top of the cabin, just aft of the doors.

Dave

Dave,

Welcome to the List . . . and thank you for the
data dump. The best prophylactic against ol'
pilot's tales and hangar lore is demonstrable
experience! Thanks for sharing.



Bob . . .


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