Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
BBS Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
art(at)zemon.name
Guest





PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
Eric Page



Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Here are three 0.25"-width versions at Digi-Key for various wire gauges:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/42100-1/A27935CT-ND/456897

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/60249-1/A27929CT-ND/456893

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/1-1393310-8/A117815CT-ND/4729959

There are probably others; you just have to scrutinize the photos and drawings.
Eric


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box somewhere that I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't know better, about 45 years ago. I have no desire to locate them again. Smile  Similar products I found talk about 'low insertion force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me question whether they will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and corrosion if they remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you need a dedicated crimper for those.

Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can slip a standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you properly support the wire leaving the widget, there's an unmeasurably small risk of one coming off, regardless of the 'latch' feature. 
FWIW...
Charlie
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel





- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

I have seen these referred to as "relay terminals." I think they might be categorized that way on Mouser.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box somewhere that I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't know better, about 45 years ago. I have no desire to locate them again. Smile  Similar products I found talk about 'low insertion force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me question whether they will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and corrosion if they remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you need a dedicated crimper for those.

Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can slip a standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you properly support the wire leaving the widget, there's an unmeasurably small risk of one coming off, regardless of the 'latch' feature. 
FWIW...
Charlie
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel








- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Yes the tin plated version works well in many nylon shells for relays
and even older ND alternators.
In the past I've purchased as few as 10 at a time from digi-key.
Where feasible I prefer to toss the nylon shell and use PIDG connectors
which I find easier to satisfactorily crimp. especially with the thin
insulation on milspec wire.
Ken

On 09/05/2018 1:47 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
Quote:
I have seen these referred to as "relay terminals." I think they might
be categorized that way on Mouser.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com
<mailto:ceengland7(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

I've got (or had; not sure) a string of those in a junk box
somewhere that I bought when I was roughly college age & didn't
know better, about 45 years ago. I have no desire to locate them
again. Smile Similar products I found talk about 'low insertion
force', which is kinda bothersome; makes me question whether they
will stay tight enough to avoid fretting and corrosion if they
remain loose enough to move under vibration. Plus you need a
dedicated crimper for those.

Have you tried a regular Faston terminal on your widget? The specs
indicate that they fit a typical 1/4" blade terminal. If you can
slip a standard Faston in the body of your widget, and you
properly support the wire leaving the widget, there's an
unmeasurably small risk of one coming off, regardless of the
'latch' feature.

FWIW...

Charlie

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name
<mailto:art(at)zemon.name>> wrote:

Folks,

Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php>
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the
bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.
Thanks,
-- Art Z.

--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>

/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for
myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel/



- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Art:
I have got to ask...  Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?  
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.  
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED 
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures.  Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel





- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What’s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?

On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel





- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
some form of plastic housing that mates with other
devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
back is to retain the terminal in its housing.


Quote:



These terminals do have both wire-grip and insulation
support. On the downside, they are not plated hence
prone to corrosion. If the terminals you're considering
are made by AMP or similar source, they're probably
a suitable alloy.

Terminals of unknown pedigree may be thinner/softer
which risks compromising the gas-tight interface with
the mating tab.

https://goo.gl/8hZ2ep

These are, of course, applied with b-crimp tools
as described.

https://goo.gl/RJuZOf

The AMP PIDG series of fast-on tabs have a
stellar track record for fast-on interconnections.
Further, they install with ratchet handled
tooling. I'd sure stick with PIDG unless there's
a compelling reason to do otherwise.


Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
art(at)zemon.name
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches. There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors, making installation behind a panel much easier.
I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After I send this email, I will resume my search.
Cheers,
    -- Art Z.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
some form of plastic housing that mates with other
devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
back is to retain the terminal in its housing.


Quote:
 


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
art(at)zemon.name
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Ahhh! Finally found them at Digi-Key: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/42282-1/A113676-ND/293293
Cheers,
    -- Art Z.


On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches. There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors, making installation behind a panel much easier.
I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After I send this email, I will resume my search.
Cheers,
    -- Art Z.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
some form of plastic housing that mates with other
devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
back is to retain the terminal in its housing.


Quote:
 


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel






--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

I found them on Mouser but I think you have to buy a roll of 10,000.

Sent from my Android. Sorry Steve.

On Wed, May 9, 2018, 18:31 Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

Quote:
That's exactly it. I am using these terminals with AeroRocker switches. There is a plastic housing which holds all six (or eight) connectors, making installation behind a panel much easier.
I tried to buy some at the local electronics emporium (Gateway Electronics) and the owner opined that he could sell a zillion of those if only he could find a supplier. I searched DigiKey and came up empty. After I send this email, I will resume my search.
Cheers,
    -- Art Z.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
These particular terminals are used in conjunction with
some form of plastic housing that mates with other
devices . . . like the skinny-wire connections on the
back of an alternator. The purpose of the barb on the
back is to retain the terminal in its housing.


Quote:
 


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel






- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Alec:
In building or repairs it is always (in dreamland) the best case condition to cover the terminals as much as possible. Well, that is what we strive for.  You might have seen rubber/silicone boots over such things as:
Connection terminals on relays.
Terminals on Alternators and even
Terminals on Mags.
Leaving terminals exposed opens up the high possibility of neighboring terminals to contact each other, or having something like a screwdriver or hardware drop on the terminal lug.
When talking about the Why-Not of the metal rollover tabs.  They Cut Into the insulation of the wire.  This is a weak point and a breaking point of the wire MOUNT.  It is best NOT to consider this rollover tab a securing  point of the lug and consider it just a sloppy part of the electrical crimp.  Consider why they are NOT used in certified aircraft.  I hate to say this on a mainly Experimental Email Site but...  Not ALL Certified Aircraft procedures are bad, or just done to satisfy the FAA, or are expensive just to line someones pocketbook.  
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors.  The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire.  It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.
Something else to view (look at Mil Spec Lugs) and consider: Lugs that are NOT insulated do NOT support the wire insulation.
Over the decades I have worked in electronics I have see this type of lug you are considering fail as the rollover part cuts into the wire insulation.  Mater of fact:  The design of this type of rollover has changed.  BUT!  Has not gone away!
Let the Ground Bound Clowns (Chinese Junk) that are penny pinching use them.  You are a Pilot and a Builder, your plane and you are worth it.  
 
Barry
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What’s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?

On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask...  Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?  
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.  
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED 
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures.  Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel








- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

My interest in this stems more from discerning myth from measureable fact than trying to pick something suitable for aircraft, but I’m afraid I don’t believe any industrial manufacturer would use them for anything at all, if they’re even half as bad as you say. A penny saved on a termination is a false economy if it decreases product reliability, and yet here they are, in use in white goods the world over.
Perhaps there’s an issue with reliable hand tool application?


On May 10, 2018, at 18:08, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
In building or repairs it is always (in dreamland) the best case condition to cover the terminals as much as possible. Well, that is what we strive for. You might have seen rubber/silicone boots over such things as:
Connection terminals on relays.
Terminals on Alternators and even
Terminals on Mags.
Leaving terminals exposed opens up the high possibility of neighboring terminals to contact each other, or having something like a screwdriver or hardware drop on the terminal lug.
When talking about the Why-Not of the metal rollover tabs. They Cut Into the insulation of the wire. This is a weak point and a breaking point of the wire MOUNT. It is best NOT to consider this rollover tab a securing point of the lug and consider it just a sloppy part of the electrical crimp. Consider why they are NOT used in certified aircraft. I hate to say this on a mainly Experimental Email Site but... Not ALL Certified Aircraft procedures are bad, or just done to satisfy the FAA, or are expensive just to line someones pocketbook.
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors. The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire. It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.
Something else to view (look at Mil Spec Lugs) and consider: Lugs that are NOT insulated do NOT support the wire insulation.
Over the decades I have worked in electronics I have see this type of lug you are considering fail as the rollover part cuts into the wire insulation. Mater of fact: The design of this type of rollover has changed. BUT! Has not gone away!
Let the Ground Bound Clowns (Chinese Junk) that are penny pinching use them. You are a Pilot and a Builder, your plane and you are worth it.

Barry
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What’s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?

On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel








- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Alec:
They are at least twice as bad as I describe.  If they were so Manufacturerlly acceptable why are they not being used or recommended by ALL the aviation manufactures and experimental aircraft suppliers such as RV?  
As for:  " A penny saved on a termination is a false economy...", PENNY HELL!  The manufactures argue tenths of a cent (1 mill)!  
Your statement of HAND TOOL is spot ON!  Look at the many ways those lugs can be used and how many of those ways will NOT produce a proper crimp.  Look at the cost of a Mil-Spec Hand Tool to do the job.  There is NO money saved there.
If as you say are interested in: "...trying to pick something suitable for aircraft..." why not go with what is an industry standard - A Proven Industry (Aviation) Standard?  YES, I know  in the Experimental Aviation world you do not have to follow a majority of the FAA requirements and you SHOULD and have the right to do better.  But what are you comparing your experimental idea too? 
Hey!  Just had an idea...  If you want to prove your thought process and prove me wrong.  Make a simple vibration test bench and shake the S#!+ out of the the lug you picked and the ones the aviation industry use.  
Barry


On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

My interest in this stems more from discerning myth from measureable fact than trying to pick something suitable for aircraft, but I’m afraid I don’t believe any industrial manufacturer would use them for anything at all, if they’re even half as bad as you say. A penny saved on a termination is a false economy if it decreases product reliability, and yet here they are, in use in white goods the world over.
Perhaps there’s an issue with reliable hand tool application?


On May 10, 2018, at 18:08, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
In building or repairs it is always (in dreamland) the best case condition to cover the terminals as much as possible. Well, that is what we strive for.  You might have seen rubber/silicone boots over such things as:
Connection terminals on relays.
Terminals on Alternators and even
Terminals on Mags.
Leaving terminals exposed opens up the high possibility of neighboring terminals to contact each other, or having something like a screwdriver or hardware drop on the terminal lug.
When talking about the Why-Not of the metal rollover tabs.  They Cut Into the insulation of the wire.  This is a weak point and a breaking point of the wire MOUNT.  It is best NOT to consider this rollover tab a securing  point of the lug and consider it just a sloppy part of the electrical crimp.  Consider why they are NOT used in certified aircraft.  I hate to say this on a mainly Experimental Email Site but...  Not ALL Certified Aircraft procedures are bad, or just done to satisfy the FAA, or are expensive just to line someones pocketbook.  
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors.  The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire.  It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.
Something else to view (look at Mil Spec Lugs) and consider: Lugs that are NOT insulated do NOT support the wire insulation.
Over the decades I have worked in electronics I have see this type of lug you are considering fail as the rollover part cuts into the wire insulation.  Mater of fact:  The design of this type of rollover has changed.  BUT!  Has not gone away!
Let the Ground Bound Clowns (Chinese Junk) that are penny pinching use them.  You are a Pilot and a Builder, your plane and you are worth it.  
 
Barry
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What’s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?

On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask...  Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?  
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.  
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED 
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures.  Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel











- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

On May 10, 2018, at 21:57, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
They are at least twice as bad as I describe. If they were so Manufacturerlly acceptable why are they not being used or recommended by ALL the aviation manufactures and experimental aircraft suppliers such as RV?
As for: " A penny saved on a termination is a false economy...", PENNY HELL! The manufactures argue tenths of a cent (1 mill)!
Your statement of HAND TOOL is spot ON! Look at the many ways those lugs can be used and how many of those ways will NOT produce a proper crimp. Look at the cost of a Mil-Spec Hand Tool to do the job. There is NO money saved there.
If as you say are interested in: "...trying to pick something suitable for aircraft..." why not go with what is an industry standard - A Proven Industry (Aviation) Standard? YES, I know in the Experimental Aviation world you do not have to follow a majority of the FAA requirements and you SHOULD and have the right to do better. But what are you comparing your experimental idea too?
Hey! Just had an idea... If you want to prove your thought process and prove me wrong. Make a simple vibration test bench and shake the S#!+ out of the the lug you picked and the ones the aviation industry use.
Barry


On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

My interest in this stems more from discerning myth from measureable fact than trying to pick something suitable for aircraft, but I’m afraid I don’t believe any industrial manufacturer would use them for anything at all, if they’re even half as bad as you say. A penny saved on a termination is a false economy if it decreases product reliability, and yet here they are, in use in white goods the world over.
Perhaps there’s an issue with reliable hand tool application?


On May 10, 2018, at 18:08, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
In building or repairs it is always (in dreamland) the best case condition to cover the terminals as much as possible. Well, that is what we strive for. You might have seen rubber/silicone boots over such things as:
Connection terminals on relays.
Terminals on Alternators and even
Terminals on Mags.
Leaving terminals exposed opens up the high possibility of neighboring terminals to contact each other, or having something like a screwdriver or hardware drop on the terminal lug.
When talking about the Why-Not of the metal rollover tabs. They Cut Into the insulation of the wire. This is a weak point and a breaking point of the wire MOUNT. It is best NOT to consider this rollover tab a securing point of the lug and consider it just a sloppy part of the electrical crimp. Consider why they are NOT used in certified aircraft. I hate to say this on a mainly Experimental Email Site but... Not ALL Certified Aircraft procedures are bad, or just done to satisfy the FAA, or are expensive just to line someones pocketbook.
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors. The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire. It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.
Something else to view (look at Mil Spec Lugs) and consider: Lugs that are NOT insulated do NOT support the wire insulation.
Over the decades I have worked in electronics I have see this type of lug you are considering fail as the rollover part cuts into the wire insulation. Mater of fact: The design of this type of rollover has changed. BUT! Has not gone away!
Let the Ground Bound Clowns (Chinese Junk) that are penny pinching use them. You are a Pilot and a Builder, your plane and you are worth it.

Barry
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What’s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?

On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel











- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Barry
I’d be as happy to prove you right, as wrong. I might think about how to build a vibration test, somehow Smile

On May 10, 2018, at 21:57, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
They are at least twice as bad as I describe. If they were so Manufacturerlly acceptable why are they not being used or recommended by ALL the aviation manufactures and experimental aircraft suppliers such as RV?
As for: " A penny saved on a termination is a false economy...", PENNY HELL! The manufactures argue tenths of a cent (1 mill)!
Your statement of HAND TOOL is spot ON! Look at the many ways those lugs can be used and how many of those ways will NOT produce a proper crimp. Look at the cost of a Mil-Spec Hand Tool to do the job. There is NO money saved there.
If as you say are interested in: "...trying to pick something suitable for aircraft..." why not go with what is an industry standard - A Proven Industry (Aviation) Standard? YES, I know in the Experimental Aviation world you do not have to follow a majority of the FAA requirements and you SHOULD and have the right to do better. But what are you comparing your experimental idea too?
Hey! Just had an idea... If you want to prove your thought process and prove me wrong. Make a simple vibration test bench and shake the S#!+ out of the the lug you picked and the ones the aviation industry use.
Barry


On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

My interest in this stems more from discerning myth from measureable fact than trying to pick something suitable for aircraft, but I’m afraid I don’t believe any industrial manufacturer would use them for anything at all, if they’re even half as bad as you say. A penny saved on a termination is a false economy if it decreases product reliability, and yet here they are, in use in white goods the world over.
Perhaps there’s an issue with reliable hand tool application?


On May 10, 2018, at 18:08, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
In building or repairs it is always (in dreamland) the best case condition to cover the terminals as much as possible. Well, that is what we strive for. You might have seen rubber/silicone boots over such things as:
Connection terminals on relays.
Terminals on Alternators and even
Terminals on Mags.
Leaving terminals exposed opens up the high possibility of neighboring terminals to contact each other, or having something like a screwdriver or hardware drop on the terminal lug.
When talking about the Why-Not of the metal rollover tabs. They Cut Into the insulation of the wire. This is a weak point and a breaking point of the wire MOUNT. It is best NOT to consider this rollover tab a securing point of the lug and consider it just a sloppy part of the electrical crimp. Consider why they are NOT used in certified aircraft. I hate to say this on a mainly Experimental Email Site but... Not ALL Certified Aircraft procedures are bad, or just done to satisfy the FAA, or are expensive just to line someones pocketbook.
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors. The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire. It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.
Something else to view (look at Mil Spec Lugs) and consider: Lugs that are NOT insulated do NOT support the wire insulation.
Over the decades I have worked in electronics I have see this type of lug you are considering fail as the rollover part cuts into the wire insulation. Mater of fact: The design of this type of rollover has changed. BUT! Has not gone away!
Let the Ground Bound Clowns (Chinese Junk) that are penny pinching use them. You are a Pilot and a Builder, your plane and you are worth it.

Barry
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What’s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?

On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask... Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures. Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel











- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Maybe an electric toothbrush?

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 7:16 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Barry
I’d be as happy to prove you right, as wrong. I might think about how to build a vibration test, somehow Smile

On May 10, 2018, at 21:57, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
They are at least twice as bad as I describe.  If they were so Manufacturerlly acceptable why are they not being used or recommended by ALL the aviation manufactures and experimental aircraft suppliers such as RV?  
As for:  " A penny saved on a termination is a false economy...", PENNY HELL!  The manufactures argue tenths of a cent (1 mill)!  
Your statement of HAND TOOL is spot ON!  Look at the many ways those lugs can be used and how many of those ways will NOT produce a proper crimp.  Look at the cost of a Mil-Spec Hand Tool to do the job.  There is NO money saved there.
If as you say are interested in: "...trying to pick something suitable for aircraft..." why not go with what is an industry standard - A Proven Industry (Aviation) Standard?  YES, I know  in the Experimental Aviation world you do not have to follow a majority of the FAA requirements and you SHOULD and have the right to do better.  But what are you comparing your experimental idea too? 
Hey!  Just had an idea...  If you want to prove your thought process and prove me wrong.  Make a simple vibration test bench and shake the S#!+ out of the the lug you picked and the ones the aviation industry use.  
Barry


On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

My interest in this stems more from discerning myth from measureable fact than trying to pick something suitable for aircraft, but I’m afraid I don’t believe any industrial manufacturer would use them for anything at all, if they’re even half as bad as you say. A penny saved on a termination is a false economy if it decreases product reliability, and yet here they are, in use in white goods the world over.
Perhaps there’s an issue with reliable hand tool application?


On May 10, 2018, at 18:08, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Alec:
In building or repairs it is always (in dreamland) the best case condition to cover the terminals as much as possible. Well, that is what we strive for.  You might have seen rubber/silicone boots over such things as:
Connection terminals on relays.
Terminals on Alternators and even
Terminals on Mags.
Leaving terminals exposed opens up the high possibility of neighboring terminals to contact each other, or having something like a screwdriver or hardware drop on the terminal lug.
When talking about the Why-Not of the metal rollover tabs.  They Cut Into the insulation of the wire.  This is a weak point and a breaking point of the wire MOUNT.  It is best NOT to consider this rollover tab a securing  point of the lug and consider it just a sloppy part of the electrical crimp.  Consider why they are NOT used in certified aircraft.  I hate to say this on a mainly Experimental Email Site but...  Not ALL Certified Aircraft procedures are bad, or just done to satisfy the FAA, or are expensive just to line someones pocketbook.  
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors.  The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire.  It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.
Something else to view (look at Mil Spec Lugs) and consider: Lugs that are NOT insulated do NOT support the wire insulation.
Over the decades I have worked in electronics I have see this type of lug you are considering fail as the rollover part cuts into the wire insulation.  Mater of fact:  The design of this type of rollover has changed.  BUT!  Has not gone away!
Let the Ground Bound Clowns (Chinese Junk) that are penny pinching use them.  You are a Pilot and a Builder, your plane and you are worth it.  
 
Barry
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:

educate me....
why is uninsulated bad?
What’s the problem with the wrapover insulation support?

On May 9, 2018, at 17:11, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Art:
I have got to ask...  Are you building your experimental to any specific specs?  
As an Experimental Builder, yes, you are allowed to experiment all different practices.  
But, I see no reason why all your wiring should not be the Best current practice.
Those type connectors are very ancient and have all sorts of issues...
Sharp Edges
UN-INSULATED 
Grip Support of the wire insulation.
No universal manufacturing procedures.  Example Not Mil-Spec.
Un-Acceptable Certified Design (FAA, AC 43.13) Yes, I know you are experimental.

Why would you want to use something from the dark ages?
Barry
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
Does Digikey (or anyone) sell these terminals? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveotabterminals.php
They are regular Faston terminals but have a little tab on the bottom to keep them from slipping out of a plastic housing.

Thanks,
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel














- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:12 am    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Quote:

There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors. The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire. It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.

B-crimp termination of wires on airplanes has
appeared in the bills-of-materials on tens
of thousands of type certificated aircraft
for decades. I was at Cessna when the AMP
Mate-n-lock products were incorporated into
the wire harnesses. I too was skeptical of
these 'new kids' on the block that seemed
to dangerously ignore techniques and
lessons-learned in the PIDG technology which
was then already decades old.

[img]cid:.0[/img]

The open-barrel, b-crimp technology now has
a field-service record demonstrated in hundreds
of millions of vehicular and stationary applications
that makes them imminently suited to use on
aircraft. The insulation grip does not have to 'cut
into the wire' . . . as I described in the b-crimp
tool comic book (and illustrated in this image
from Tyco-AMP), the insulation grip should get a
'bear-hug' on the insulation without damage to it.




These terminals were designed to be part of a
harness connector wherein two or more wires were
brought into a plastic housing as a female
connector that mated with a switch, relay or
other device.
Quote:


There are hundreds of millions
of examples of this technology in service all
over the planet . . . including virtually all
cars and trucks on the road today. B-crimp
terminations probably outnumber PIDG style
devices by several orders of magnitude.

[img]cid:.1[/img]

My only concerns for the style illustrated
were for the lack of finish and perhaps an
unknown pedigree for the material's mechanical
properties that go to maintenance of gas-tight
electrical connection.

But if these are found in catalogs from
manufacturers like Tyco-AMP, Molex, etc . . .
it is likely that those concerns are moot.

If one wished to use these devices as
mates to individual fast-on tabs, one could
consider adding heat-shrink over the whole
terminal . . . which offers more cover than
the PIDG devices.



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List



4adaf4.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  49.06 KB
 Viewed:  784 Time(s)

4adaf4.jpg



4adb13.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  49.74 KB
 Viewed:  784 Time(s)

4adb13.jpg


Back to top
BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:57 am    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Bob:
You are mixing Apples and Apple Sauce and coming up with Lumpy Apple Sauce.
Those are PINS not Lugs.
The Pins are supported by the connector.
The Lugs are hanging out into the air. No support!
And that is why PIDG type Lugs are preferred!
Barry
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:11 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
 
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors.  The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire.  It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.

  B-crimp termination of wires on airplanes has
  appeared in the bills-of-materials on tens
  of thousands of type certificated aircraft
  for decades. I was at Cessna when the AMP
  Mate-n-lock products were incorporated into
  the wire harnesses.  I too was skeptical of
  these 'new kids' on the block that seemed
  to dangerously ignore techniques and
  lessons-learned in the PIDG technology which
  was then already decades old.
 
[img]cid:.0[/img]

    The open-barrel, b-crimp technology now has
    a field-service record demonstrated in hundreds
    of millions of vehicular and stationary applications
    that makes them imminently suited to use on
    aircraft.  The insulation grip does not have to 'cut
    into the wire' . . . as I described in the b-crimp
    tool comic book (and illustrated in this image
    from Tyco-AMP), the insulation grip should get a
    'bear-hug' on the insulation without damage to it.

 


    These terminals were designed to be part of a
    harness connector wherein two or more wires were
    brought into a plastic housing as a female
    connector that mated with a switch, relay or
    other device.
Quote:

 

    There are hundreds of millions
    of examples of this technology in service all
    over the planet . . . including virtually all
    cars and trucks on the road today.  B-crimp
    terminations probably outnumber PIDG style
    devices by several orders of magnitude.

[img]cid:.1[/img]

    My only concerns for the style illustrated
    were for the lack of finish and perhaps an
    unknown pedigree for the material's mechanical
    properties that go to maintenance of gas-tight
    electrical connection.
 
    But if these are found in catalogs from
    manufacturers like Tyco-AMP, Molex, etc . . .
    it is likely that those concerns are moot.

    If one wished to use these devices as
    mates to individual fast-on tabs, one could
    consider adding heat-shrink over the whole
    terminal . . . which offers more cover than
    the PIDG devices.



  Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List



4adb13.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  49.74 KB
 Viewed:  784 Time(s)

4adb13.jpg



4adaf4.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  49.06 KB
 Viewed:  784 Time(s)

4adaf4.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
echristley(at)att.net
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject: Faston / Aveo Tab Terminals Reply with quote

Why are you installing "lugs" that are hanging out into the air?
Me thinks the problem with lugs is caused by the problem of not following another good practice, which is that the wire should be tied down in some manner to isolate the crimp connection from vibration. You have to analyze the whole system. Not just one connector style.

On Friday, May 11, 2018 9:58 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Bob:

You are mixing Apples and Apple Sauce and coming up with Lumpy Apple Sauce.

Those are PINS not Lugs.
The Pins are supported by the connector.
The Lugs are hanging out into the air. No support!
And that is why PIDG type Lugs are preferred!

Barry


On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:11 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
There was just a long thread on this email site that discussed Insulated Crimp Connectors. The insulated part of the lug Supports the insulated part of the wire. It gives it a secure holding point that DOES NOT cut into wire.
B-crimp termination of wires on airplanes has appeared in the bills-of-materials on tens of thousands of type certificated aircraft for decades. I was at Cessna when the AMP Mate-n-lock products were incorporated into the wire harnesses. I too was skeptical of these 'new kids' on the block that seemed to dangerously ignore techniques and lessons-learned in the PIDG technology which was then already decades old. [img]cid:.0[/img] The open-barrel, b-crimp technology now has a field-service record demonstrated in hundreds of millions of vehicular and stationary applications that makes them imminently suited to use on aircraft. The insulation grip does not have to 'cut into the wire' . . . as I described in the b-crimp tool comic book (and illustrated in this image from Tyco-AMP), the insulation grip should get a 'bear-hug' on the insulation without damage to it. These terminals were designed to be part of a harness connector wherein two or more wires were brought into a plastic housing as a female connector that mated with a switch, relay or other device.
Quote:
There are hundreds of millions of examples of this technology in service all over the planet . . . including virtually all cars and trucks on the road today. B-crimp terminations probably outnumber PIDG style devices by several orders of magnitude. [img]cid:.1[/img] My only concerns for the style illustrated were for the lack of finish and perhaps an unknown pedigree for the material's mechanical properties that go to maintenance of gas-tight electrical connection. But if these are found in catalogs from manufacturers like Tyco-AMP, Molex, etc . . . it is likely that those concerns are moot. If one wished to use these devices as mates to individual fast-on tabs, one could consider adding heat-shrink over the whole terminal . . . which offers more cover than the PIDG devices. Bob . . .



- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List



4adb13.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  49.74 KB
 Viewed:  784 Time(s)

4adb13.jpg



4adaf4.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  49.06 KB
 Viewed:  784 Time(s)

4adaf4.jpg


Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group