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insulation support for crimps

 
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alec(at)alecmyers.com
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

Bob et al.

I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.

If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

Alec


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

Alec:
The insulated lug below a #10 AWG is a FAA requirement.  It has a bit of a safety requirement.
Using the Shrink Tubing sort of satisfies that safety requirement.
How well the safety issue is satisfied, I don't know.  
Would I do what you suggest?
YES, but, I would also consider the voltage, the amperage and the proximity to neighboring terminals.  
I would also be using a LOCK WASHER or a LOCK NUT on ALL terminals.
If you satisfy what YOU as the builder consider SAFE, then the project may just be safe.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

Bob et al.

I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.

If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

Alec

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

On 4/2/2018 5:11 PM, Alec Myers wrote:
Quote:


Bob et al.

I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.

If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

Alec
I wouldn't hesitate to use that technique on my plane (I've actually

done it in a few places). It's worth mentioning that the wire should
still be supported within a few inches of the connector, regardless of
the terminator you use.

Whenever we get all wrapped up in state of the art perfection, it's
worth remembering that there are planes still flying  with terminators
on their wires that were applied before PIDG terminals existed; probably
before crimp terminals existed at all. Smile

Charlie

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Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

Alec,

Like the others, I wouldn't hesitate to use the method you described. I would, however, use adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing. It helps to keep moisture out of your crimps and it grips the wire insulation and terminal better than non-adhesive tubing. I usually have the best luck with tubing that has higher shrink ratio; I generally buy 3:1 or 4:1, which gives more leeway for diameter mismatch.

Here's a Digi-Key search sorted for only adhesive-lined shrink tubing:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y8e5xz9d

Eric


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:47 am    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

At 05:11 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com>

Bob et al.

I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.

If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

Which Molex product are you citing? All the Molex
product I have here features both wire and insulation
grip features. I'm unaware of any product that doesn't
offer insulation grip.

Having said that, yes . . . heat shrink . . . particularly
double-wall adhesive heat shrink is suited for the addition
of insulation support on terminations that don't already
have it. For example, when bringing a wire onto an etched
circuit board I will either bring the insulation down tight
on the surface and spot the junction with E6000 (or similar)
or better yet, crimp a d-sub mail onto the wire, support the
insulation with DWA shrink the solder the pin to the board.

This last technique has been used on countless terminations
in my experience for 40 years. Assemblies so treated have
passed the most severe DO160 shake-n-bake tests with no problems.



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:51 am    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

At 05:46 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Alec:

The insulated lug below a #10 AWG is a FAA requirement.

Is this a requirement or a recommended practice.
AC43-13, like DO160 are citations of acceptable
shop practices but they are not requirements.

Citing these documents can relive you of the
task to justify your alternative practice
but they do not prohibit alteratives.



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite” and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.

On Apr 3, 2018, at 08:46, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
At 05:11 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

Bob et al.

I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.

If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

Which Molex product are you citing? All the Molex
product I have here features both wire and insulation
grip features. I'm unaware of any product that doesn't
offer insulation grip.

Having said that, yes . . . heat shrink . . . particularly
double-wall adhesive heat shrink is suited for the addition
of insulation support on terminations that don't already
have it. For example, when bringing a wire onto an etched
circuit board I will either bring the insulation down tight
on the surface and spot the junction with E6000 (or similar)
or better yet, crimp a d-sub mail onto the wire, support the
insulation with DWA shrink the solder the pin to the board.

This last technique has been used on countless terminations
in my experience for 40 years. Assemblies so treated have
passed the most severe DO160 shake-n-bake tests with no problems.



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite” and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.


Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
spectrum of Waldom termnials

https://goo.gl/XKMA71

The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
rolled, non-welded wire grips.

Next step up through the product line adds
insulation grips to the non-welded
terminals.

Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
specifically designed for solid wire and wire
grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.

Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
offering to higher performance vehicular
applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928

The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.

There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
are not expected to perform under vibration.

One does not save much money with the use of terminals
outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.

Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
applications.

[img]cid:.0[/img]


Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

HI Bob

Quote:
> M25036/T7928

What are these?

A

On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite” and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.


Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
spectrum of Waldom termnials

https://goo.gl/XKMA71

The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
rolled, non-welded wire grips.

Next step up through the product line adds
insulation grips to the non-welded
terminals.

Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
specifically designed for solid wire and wire
grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.

Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
offering to higher performance vehicular
applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928

The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.

There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
are not expected to perform under vibration.

One does not save much money with the use of terminals
outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.

Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
applications.

<973ee6.jpg>

Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

Google is (sometimes) our friend:https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036&oq=M25036&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

HI Bob

>> M25036/T7928

What are these?

A

On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
> It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite† and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.
>

 Okay.  Found this .pdf that speaks to the
 spectrum of Waldom termnials

https://goo.gl/XKMA71

 The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
 of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
 rolled, non-welded wire grips.

 Next step up through the product line adds
 insulation grips to the non-welded
 terminals.

 Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
 specifically designed for solid wire and wire
 grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
 wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.

 Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
 offering to higher performance vehicular
 applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
 to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
 designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928

 The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.

 There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
 ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
 ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
 expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
 temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
 insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
 are not expected to perform under vibration.

 One does not save much money with the use of terminals
 outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
 Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.

 Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
 with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
 applications.

<973ee6.jpg>

  Bob . . .



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====================================





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

Ah… they’re products? It sounded like they were a specification.

On Apr 5, 2018, at 5:42 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Google is (sometimes) our friend:
https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036&oq=M25036&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:


HI Bob

Quote:
> M25036/T7928

What are these?

A

On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite†and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.


Okay. Found this .pdf that speaks to the
spectrum of Waldom termnials

https://goo.gl/XKMA71

The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
rolled, non-welded wire grips.

Next step up through the product line adds
insulation grips to the non-welded
terminals.

Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
specifically designed for solid wire and wire
grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.

Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
offering to higher performance vehicular
applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928

The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.

There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
are not expected to perform under vibration.

One does not save much money with the use of terminals
outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.

Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
applications.

<973ee6.jpg>

Bob . . .

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====================================
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====================================


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 619

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: insulation support for crimps Reply with quote

Alec:
Here is a link to what they are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036%2FT7928&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS749US749&oq=M25036%2FT7928&aqs=chrome.69i57j69i58.1941j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Barry
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

HI Bob

>> M25036/T7928

What are these?

A

On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:
> It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite† and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.
>

 Okay.  Found this .pdf that speaks to the
 spectrum of Waldom termnials

https://goo.gl/XKMA71

 The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom
 of the features ladder. No insulation grip,
 rolled, non-welded wire grips.

 Next step up through the product line adds
 insulation grips to the non-welded
 terminals.

 Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals
 specifically designed for solid wire and wire
 grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of
 wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.

 Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex
 offering to higher performance vehicular
 applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents
 to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others
 designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928

 The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.

 There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated
 ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,
 ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are
 expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental
 temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy
 insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals
 are not expected to perform under vibration.

 One does not save much money with the use of terminals
 outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated
 Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.

 Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies
 with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar
 applications.



<973ee6.jpg>

  Bob . . .



====================================
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====================================
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================







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