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Coolant Hose

 
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hgmckay



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

I am replacing the large 1 inch inside Ědiameter coolant hose on my 912 engine. All of this large coolant hose and the radiator is under the cowl in my Allegro 2000 so the ambient operating temperature is much higher than an exposed 912 engine. I have looked into using silicone hose because of its higher temperature rating but I have found out that the water permeation rate through silicone hose is 10 to 15 times normal 2 ply heater hose. The temperature rating on normal 2 ply hose is only 125 degrees C, where the silicone hose is rated at 170 degrees C +/-. Is anyone out there using silicone coolant hose? If so what is your experience? If you are not using silicone hose what have you replaced the original Rotax hose with?

Hugh G. McKay III
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net


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rlborger(at)mac.com
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Hugh,
FWIW, all the coolant hoses on my 914 are silicone. They seem to be working just fine, no problems at all.

Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
I am replacing the large 1 inch inside ÔŅĹdiameter coolant hose on my 912 engine. All of this large coolant hose and the radiator is under the cowl in my Allegro 2000 so the ambient operating temperature is much higher than an exposed 912 engine. I have looked into using silicone hose because of its higher temperature rating but I have found out that the water permeation rate through silicone hose is 10 to 15 times normal 2 ply heater hose. The temperature rating on normal 2 ply hose is only 125 degrees C, where the silicone hose is rated at 170 degrees C +/-. Is anyone out there using silicone coolant hose? If so what is your experience? If you are not using silicone hose what have you replaced the original Rotax hose with?

Hugh G. McKay IIIPh. 704-661-8271Fax 704-483-5466email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)
<Hugh.vcf>


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peteohms



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Kitfox III, no problems. I add an ounce or two of coolant once in awhile. 9 years using silicone.
Pete

On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
Quote:
I am replacing the large 1 inch inside ¬Ědiameter coolant hose on my 912 engine. All of this large coolant hose and the radiator is under the cowl in my Allegro 2000 so the ambient operating temperature is much higher than an exposed 912 engine. I have looked into using silicone hose because of its higher temperature rating but I have found out that the water permeation rate through silicone hose is 10 to 15 times normal 2 ply heater hose. The temperature rating on normal 2 ply hose is only 125 degrees C, where the silicone hose is rated at 170 degrees C +/-. Is anyone out there using silicone coolant hose? If so what is your experience? If you are not using silicone hose what have you replaced the original Rotax hose with?

Hugh G. McKay III
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)

<Hugh.vcf>


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Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove
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johnelling



Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

I've replaces all the coolant and oil hoses with the "blue" silicone
from various autoparts catalogs. No problems. You can get
pre-fabricated bends as needed. Makes for a nice clean install....

--

John Elling
590 Monte Alto
Santa Fe, NM 87501-6172

Ph. (505) 670-0232
Fx. (206) 339-4045
john(at)elling.net


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max8992



Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Did the same on my Europa XS and few years later on my MCR 4S. Both modifications been approved by french admin...

Cordialement
Max Cointe
mcointe(at)free.fr

F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 1850 heures 912ULSFR/e-Props D100M

-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de John Elling
Envoyé : dimanche 15 janvier 2017 09:45
À : rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Coolant Hose


--> <jelling(at)newmexico.com>

I've replaces all the coolant and oil hoses with the "blue" silicone from various autoparts catalogs. No problems. You can get pre-fabricated bends as needed. Makes for a nice clean install....

--

John Elling
590 Monte Alto
Santa Fe, NM 87501-6172

Ph. (505) 670-0232
Fx. (206) 339-4045
john(at)elling.net


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Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH
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hgmckay



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Bob,

Did the hoses come on the engine or did you install them? Is your engine a tractor or pusher? Is it under a cowl?

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037

Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com

From: Robert Borger (rlborger(at)mac.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:37 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Coolant Hose


Hugh,
FWIW, all the coolant hoses on my 914 are silicone. They seem to be working just fine, no problems at all.

Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

I am replacing the large 1 inch inside ÔŅĹdiameter coolant hose on my 912 engine. All of this large coolant hose and the radiator is under the cowl in my Allegro 2000 so the ambient operating temperature is much higher than an exposed 912 engine. I have looked into using silicone hose because of its higher temperature rating but I have found out that the water permeation rate through silicone hose is 10 to 15 times normal 2 ply heater hose. The temperature rating on normal 2 ply hose is only 125 degrees C, where the silicone hose is rated at 170 degrees C +/-. Is anyone out there using silicone coolant hose? If so what is your experience? If you are not using silicone hose what have you replaced the original Rotax hose with?

Hugh G. McKay III
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)

<Hugh.vcf>


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hgmckay



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Pete, I assume your engine is fully cowled. Did you install the silicone hose or was it original on your engine. Do you know the manufacturer and spec on the silicone hose?

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037

Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com

From: Pete Christensen (pchristensen10(at)austin.rr.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:49 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Coolant Hose



Kitfox III, no problems. I add an ounce or two of coolant once in awhile. 9 years using silicone.

Pete

On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
Quote:
I am replacing the large 1 inch inside ¬Ědiameter coolant hose on my 912 engine. All of this large coolant hose and the radiator is under the cowl in my Allegro 2000 so the ambient operating temperature is much higher than an exposed 912 engine. I have looked into using silicone hose because of its higher temperature rating but I have found out that the water permeation rate through silicone hose is 10 to 15 times normal 2 ply heater hose. The temperature rating on normal 2 ply hose is only 125 degrees C, where the silicone hose is rated at 170 degrees C +/-. Is anyone out there using silicone coolant hose? If so what is your experience? If you are not using silicone hose what have you replaced the original Rotax hose with?

Hugh G. McKay III
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)

<Hugh.vcf>


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hgmckay



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

John,

Is your engine fully cowled 912? What is the manufacturer and spec of the
"blue" silicone hose?

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037

Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
--


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rlborger(at)mac.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Hugh,
I purchased the hoses from Stefan Ingemarsson (ingemarsson(at)gmail.com (ingemarsson(at)gmail.com)). The set he sells is specific to the Europa Classic or XS.

The Europa is a tractor, cowled installation.

[img]cid:DA64CF7C-8B90-40F0-9225-B0F3AFF58B4E[/img]

The radiator is located below the engine.

On Jan 15, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
Bob,

Did the hoses come on the engine or did you install them? Is your engine a tractor or pusher? Is it under a cowl?

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCESenior ConsultantWorldwide Engineering Inc.4090 North NC Hwy. 16Denver, NC 28037Ph. 704-661-8271Fax 704-483-5466email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)http://www.wwegeo.com

From: Robert Borger (rlborger(at)mac.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:37 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Coolant Hose


Hugh,
FWIW, all the coolant hoses on my 914 are silicone. They seem to be working just fine, no problems at all.

Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

On Jan 14, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

I am replacing the large 1 inch inside √Į¬Ņ¬Ĺdiameter coolant hose on my 912 engine. All of this large coolant hose and the radiator is under the cowl in my Allegro 2000 so the ambient operating temperature is much higher than an exposed 912 engine. I have looked into using silicone hose because of its higher temperature rating but I have found out that the water permeation rate through silicone hose is 10 to 15 times normal 2 ply heater hose. The temperature rating on normal 2 ply hose is only 125 degrees C, where the silicone hose is rated at 170 degrees C +/-. Is anyone out there using silicone coolant hose? If so what is your experience? If you are not using silicone hose what have you replaced the original Rotax hose with?

Hugh G. McKay IIIPh. 704-661-8271Fax 704-483-5466email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)
<Hugh.vcf>


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peteohms



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Hugh,
My engine is fully cowled. Don't know the specs on the hoses. Got them at a semi truck parts house. Plane did not come with silicone.
Pete

On Jan 15, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Pete, I assume your engine is fully cowled. Did you install the silicone hose or was it original on your engine. Do you know the manufacturer and spec on the silicone hose?

Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Fellow, L.M. ASCE
Senior Consultant



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Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove
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Roger Lee



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1452
Location: Tucson, Az.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

99% of the Rotax engines don't use silicone coolant hoses and they have run just fine since 1990. Just use a good grade of 1" coolant hose. If the hose is not at least 2" away from and exhaust pipe put some heat shield on that area. Hoses like Gates Green Stripe are 4 ply.
Silicone hoses won't hurt, but aren't necessary.

You are supposed to be changing hoses every 5 years along with other rubber parts. Not doing this is a roll of the dice. I think you just found out that isn't worth it.

If this was an issue the entire Rotax engine users around the world would be busting hoses.


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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
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max8992



Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:32 am    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Quote:
99% of the Rotax engines don't use silicone coolant hoses and they have
run just fine since 1990.

So true ! but
Quote:
You are supposed to be changing hoses every 5 years along with other
rubber parts. Not doing this is a roll of the dice. I think you just found

out that isn't worth it.
Silicone hoses don't have time limits so you can avoid to change them
according to legal authorities...

Cordialement
Max Cointe
mcointe(at)free.fr

F-PLDJ DyníAťro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 1850 heures 912ULSFR/e-Props D100M

-----Message d'origine-----
De†: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Roger
Lee
Envoyť†: lundi 16 janvier 2017 14:49
ņ†: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Objet†: Re: Coolant Hose



99% of the Rotax engines don't use silicone coolant hoses and they have run
just fine since 1990. Just use a good grade of 1" coolant hose. If the hose
is not at least 2" away from and exhaust pipe put some heat shield on that
area. Hoses like Gates Green Stripe are 4 ply.
Silicone hoses won't hurt, but aren't necessary.

You are supposed to be changing hoses every 5 years along with other rubber
parts. Not doing this is a roll of the dice. I think you just found out that
isn't worth it.

If this was an issue the entire Rotax engine users around the world would be
busting hoses.

--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor &amp; Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056


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Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH
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Roger Lee



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1452
Location: Tucson, Az.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

But you still have fuel, oil and the 17mm coolant hoses which there is no good US equivalent. You have carb rubber sockets, engine mounts, carb diaphragm, carb balance tube rubber.

As an example real Teflon hoses for an RV12 fuel system will run $550 (approximately). Those still have to go into fire sleeve and so would oil hoses. Most of the time leaks and cracking show up at the clamped area and not mid hose unless the hose is being rubbed or too close to an exhaust pipe. How do you inspect hose under fire sleeve and under a clamp?

For $550 I can buy all my hoses a couple times over and that would take care of me for 10-15 years.

Flying safe and with some peace of mind is worth your time. If you can't afford to keep a plane's maint. up then flying may not be the best hobby for you. Throwing any old piece of hose you can on the engine and clamping it in place may make you a hazard waiting to hurt you and your passenger not to mention the high cost of any repair.

Ask Huge what all this is going to cost by the time he's done?


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Tucson, Az.
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Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
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Roger Lee



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1452
Location: Tucson, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Hi Huge,

If you would be willing to share this experience it might help others.


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paul.r.kuntz(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

Just checked the Aircraft Spruce/CPS web site for the price on a Rotax 912 five-year rubber replacement kit.  It's nearly $1300, which looks very high for what it contains.  I assume that's because it spears that everything comes from Rotax, and there are likely much more reasonably priced options for the hoses, perhaps other items as well.  What do you Rotax listers recommend?

Paul Kuntz
Pipistrel Sinus Motorglider 
Experimental Amateur Built
Rotax 912 UL
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 06:36 Max Free <mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Max Free" <mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)>> 99% of the Rotax engines don't use silicone coolant hoses and they haverun just fine since 1990.So true ! but> You are supposed to be changing hoses every 5 years along with otherrubber parts. Not doing this is a roll of the dice. I think you just foundout that isn't worth it.Silicone hoses don't have time limits so you can avoid to change themaccording to legal authorities...CordialementMax  Cointemcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4SKit #27-2002 1850 heures 912ULSFR/e-Props D100M-----Message d'origine-----De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] De la part de RogerLeeEnvoyé : lundi 16 janvier 2017 14:49À : rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)Objet : RotaxEngines-List: Re: Coolant Hose--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>99% of the Rotax engines don't use silicone coolant hoses and they have runjust fine since 1990. Just use a good grade of 1" coolant hose. If the hoseis not at least 2" away from and exhaust pipe put some heat shield on thatarea. Hoses like Gates Green Stripe are 4 ply.Silicone hoses won't hurt, but aren't necessary.You are supposed to be changing hoses every 5 years along with other rubberparts. Not doing this is a roll of the dice. I think you just found out thatisn't worth it.If this was an issue the entire Rotax engine users around the world would bebusting hoses.--------Roger LeeTucson, Az.Rotax Instructor &amp; Rotax IRCLight Sport RepairmanHome 520-574-1080  TRY HOME FIRSTCell 520-349-7056Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465135#465135http://www.matronics.com/Navigator           - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://wiki.m             - List Contribution Web Sit=                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/contribution


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4509
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Coolant Hose Reply with quote

There is nothing magic about Rotax hoses except the name.

I've been flying 912 engines since 1993 on my Kolb MKIII, 3,300.0+ hours.  When I feel a fuel, oil, or coolant hose needs replacing, I run down to AutoZone or O'Reilly's to buy some Gates premium hose.  Never had one let me down.

$1,300.00???

john h
Kolb MKIII
Titus, Alabama

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kuntz
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 5:50 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Coolant Hose


Just checked the Aircraft Spruce/CPS web site for the price on a Rotax 912 five-year rubber replacement kit. It's nearly $1300, which looks very high for what it contains. I assume that's because it spears that everything comes from Rotax, and there are likely much more reasonably priced options for the hoses, perhaps other items as well. What do you Rotax listers recommend?


Paul Kuntz

Pipistrel Sinus Motorglider

Experimental Amateur Built

Rotax 912 UL


On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 06:36 Max Free <mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)> wrote:
Quote:

--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Max Free" <mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)>

Quote:
99% of the Rotax engines don't use silicone coolant hoses and they have

run just fine since 1990.

So true ! but

Quote:
You are supposed to be changing hoses every 5 years along with other

rubber parts. Not doing this is a roll of the dice. I think you just found

out that isn't worth it.

Silicone hoses don't have time limits so you can avoid to change them

according to legal authorities...

Cordialement

Max Cointe

mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)

F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S

Kit #27-2002 1850 heures 912ULSFR/e-Props D100M

-----Message d'origine-----

De : owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)

[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] De la part de Roger

Lee

Envoyé : lundi 16 janvier 2017 14:49

À : rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)

Objet : Re: Coolant Hose

--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

99% of the Rotax engines don't use silicone coolant hoses and they have run

just fine since 1990. Just use a good grade of 1" coolant hose. If the hose

is not at least 2" away from and exhaust pipe put some heat shield on that

area. Hoses like Gates Green Stripe are 4 ply.

Silicone hoses won't hurt, but aren't necessary.

You are supposed to be changing hoses every 5 years along with other rubber

parts. Not doing this is a roll of the dice. I think you just found out that

isn't worth it.

If this was an issue the entire Rotax engine users around the world would be

busting hoses.

--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Rotax Instructor &amp; Rotax IRC

Light Sport Repairman

Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST

Cell 520-349-7056

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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